Re: Thyseneal: V 3.6 ::REVAMP::

[The Bison King]

Well, I've got a few more games on this map under my belt, and I think I've pretty much hammered out all of the concerns I've had with this map (as far as game play is concerned). It's been playing fine and there doesn't seem to be any real advantage to starting in any specific regions. I'll be taking any additional input into consideration if it comes up but for now I'll tentatively say that I'll be waiting for the stamp.

I have a number of Ideas I've been saving on how to improve the graphics, so once I get moved I'll start working on them.

[Evil DIMwit]

Neato. Well, I can't really spot any problems so I'm stickying this for a couple of days for review. If nobody comes up with a glaring issue, it'll be stamped.

[natty dread]

How do you spell Thessisamess... This is a mess?

I took a look, and I can't really see any problems either... I'll have to take another look when I've had some sleep, but so far looks good to me. Keep up the good work.

[The Bison King]

How do you spell Thessisamess... This is a mess?

HA!!!! you got it!!! that's exactly what I did, I can't believe you noticed. I was working on an art project at school a while ago and this project was totally getting away from me so I named the file This is a mess, but the program saved everything as one word. I looked at it, said it out loud phonetically and thought it sounded pretty cool. I changed the spelling a little to make it sound cooler. It should be pronounce (theh-SISS-ah-mess).

[Evil DIMwit]

And time. Let's everybody have a big hand for the newest map out of Gameplay.

[The Bison King]

Most Excellent I'll start making graphical adjustments next week for I won't have any time this weekend. Looking forward to it!

First on my list of things to do:

Make it clear that Dalmus is part of the Island bonus
Make the roads look better

[The Bison King]

Ok, here's the first graphical adjustment. I've altered the cities to look like castles and better reflect the cultures of each territory. I want to see what people think of this before I make the 600x600 version.

Also I added the comment in the ket (including Dalmus) for the Island bonus.

[natty dread]

Loving those icons!

A few critiques: your territory borders are a bit too faded at some places. I'd suggest making the borders stronger and easier to see.

Also mountains, they seem a bit, well, pale. Add some stronger shading to them perhaps...

[The Bison King]

Where are some of the weak borders?

[natty dread]

Well to be honest, I think all of them could use some strengthening. But especially the ones at Tythenia, The desert, Morovia, Arleus...

[Neato Missile]

Yeah, the borders between Far Western Tytheria / Thessisamess and Chancella / Azuran jump out (or fail to jump out) as being especially hard to discern.

[The Bison King]

Word, will fix

[b00kw0rm]

Maybe make Dalmus a bit larger? It's rather small, blends into the background, and is partially obscured by the city icon.

[mattattam]

I don't think you should have Dalmus be a city. It would be more interesting if Chunjaris and Theraland could attack each other as well as Dalmus. Makes it less of a funnel.

By the way good job getting your gameplay stamp! I like the addition of the castles to make it more clear. I think some of the castles could be smaller such as Thessisamess, Hellengarm, and Northern Frontier. Northern Frontier being the same size as Denmarn is the size difference I'm thinking.

[DubWarrior]

Hi Bison King,
I think you already have done an amazing job with pencil and those watercolors. I don't agee on Natty dread post concerning the mountains. I would love to see a CC map without all blur, shades or glows. I think you come up with a nice alternative with this painting thing. Love that.
So, few critiques:
- I would bring the border of Alus a bit to the south, also give Illania a bit more space, you have some space in Morovia.
- azuran could use some space too, maybe move the border a bit to the south
- what's that dot under Dalmus? don't think you need that
- make that the border Aliskar Plain don't cross the text
- could you make those bonuses in the right more like those bonuses in the left, with a frame and some colors.
- I think, maybe a bit later, you will need an easier font for the legend. I don't think you can make it look all good on the small map
especially take a good look at all those legends beneath, you'll need to make that look a bit cleaner, i think.
-small thing; I find the signature a bit distinctive, maybe a bit too much. I would replace the black in it to a more grey, like the color of the castles.

I wish you all the best and looking forward to play on it!

[The Bison King]

Ok, just spent several hours working on this so I hope you like the adjustments.

your territory borders are a bit too faded at some places. I'd suggest making the borders stronger and easier to see.

Done. Borders strengthened.

Maybe make Dalmus a bit larger? It's rather small, blends into the background, and is partially obscured by the city icon.

I didn't make it larger but I moved the city to the side and made it's border more clear as well.

I don't think you should have Dalmus be a city. It would be more interesting if Chunjaris and Theraland could attack each other as well as Dalmus. Makes it less of a funnel.

Sorry man, should have mentioned that back at gamplay we're passed that now.

I think some of the castles could be smaller such as Thessisamess, Hellengarm, and Northern Frontier. Northern Frontier being the same size as Denmarn is the size difference I'm thinking.

Done. Thessisamess, Hellengar, and Northern Frontier city icons all made smaller.

- I would bring the border of Alus a bit to the south, also give Illania a bit more space, you have some space in Morovia.
- azuran could use some space too, maybe move the border a bit to the south

Done. Extended the borders on those, especially Azuran.

make that the border Aliskar Plain don't cross the text

Done. Moved the text up

could you make those bonuses in the right more like those bonuses in the left, with a frame and some colors.

I have no idea what you mean by this?

I think, maybe a bit later, you will need an easier font for the legend. I don't think you can make it look all good on the small map
especially take a good look at all those legends beneath, you'll need to make that look a bit cleaner, i think.

Done. I changed the font to be more readable, however I don't think it looks as cool.

small thing; I find the signature a bit distinctive, maybe a bit too much. I would replace the black in it to a more grey, like the color of the castles.

I think that would make it too hard to see, the castles are only grayish because I applied a transparency.

I wish you all the best and looking forward to play on it!

Duh. Thank you. Me too.

Also I am aware that the small version doesn't have counters on it yet. I had to remake the image from the original one, I'm tired and I'll do it tomorrow.

Oh... I also just noticed I some how lost the word "total" on the large image I'll get that tomorrow as well.

[mattattam]

Very nice additions and changes. It's looking a lot better. You are a trooper in how much you've been working on this.

In regards to your response bellow:

I don't think you should have Dalmus be a city. It would be more interesting if Chunjaris and Theraland could attack each other as well as Dalmus. Makes it less of a funnel.

Sorry man, should have mentioned that back at gamplay we're passed that now.

I could not tell that Dalmus was a city before. I see it now in your previous version. Just because you got the gameplay stamp doesn't mean you can't change it at all . All I ask is you try it out in live mode and see. I think it would be more balanced gameplay. Again great changes.

[DubWarrior]

Hi, great changes and I do thing that new font in the legend is COOL. Yes, it's working and it will be working to once smaller.
And Off course you only need it in your legend.
I've been playing around with some elements. I'm not saying this is it, but it's more a way to give you some idea.
What I mend was something like this:



Now I would give "+ 3 for any Islands, Cities attack the next city along the road, road bonus are held..." all the same font, that new font you use. It will give you some space and it will bring some tranquility i guess. I would also advice to use the same color for these lines. In the right I think it could be nice if you do a frame like you use left, bBut this time for your roadbonuses. just a thought

cheers
Dub

[The Bison King]

About the whole "Dalmus not being a city thing "that actually was addressed earlier in the thread. Below is a quote from me.

I want Dalmus to still be able to act as a barrier. What's the point of having a barrier between two bonuses if you can just go right past it?

I've thought about it but I really want there to be a neutral (it starts neutral for this very reason) barrier between those to bonuses. Final decision.

Again thanks for all the suggestions though, I do like that you are putting a lot of thought into this.

Any way onto Dub's suggestion for the road bonus display. I see what you are getting at. However I don't want to cover up all that geography. There might be some other way to frame it. It does seem kind of unbalanced having a nice frame for the territory bonuses but not the road bonuses, but it would need to be something that is mostly see through. I'm not sure, I'll think about it maybe I'll come up with something cool, we'll see.

[natty dread]

Hey, it's not covering a lot of geography... most of it is sea, with a small piece of non-playable coastal area...

[mattattam]

I see what you're saying with having Dalmus being neutral as a barrier. As always I'm glad to give the input and thanks for hearing it out.

[The Bison King]

Hey, it's not covering a lot of geography... most of it is sea, with a small piece of non-playable coastal area...

It's cool I'll work something out. It'll look cool.

[DubWarrior]

Any way onto Dub's suggestion for the road bonus display. I see what you are getting at. However I don't want to cover up all that geography. There might be some other way to frame it. It does seem kind of unbalanced having a nice frame for the territory bonuses but not the road bonuses, but it would need to be something that is mostly see through. I'm not sure, I'll think about it maybe I'll come up with something cool, we'll see.

I agree with you that a lot of geography and painting is covered that way. Most legends take a lot of space, but keeping things simple will give you a lot of space and calm to the bottom of the map. Just check what you get when you use the same font as that new one right and the same colors. And removing the glow from the text in the large map. It can be an easy solution.
Also, I think it might be logic if the text about holding the islands stands with the bonus for continents and the text about the routes is standing together with the bonustext for the routes. Just to clear things up.

gl
Dub

[mattattam]

I was just thinking about this. It is unnecessary to have castles on Chunjaris and Dalmus because they only attack connecting territories. You'd want to make sure it's still clear that it's a road bonus which the key does but something graphically would help. I do like the design of the Dalmus castle though. You could put that castle in Northern Frontier instead!

[The Bison King]

I was just thinking about this. It is unnecessary to have castles on Chunjaris and Dalmus because they only attack connecting territories. You'd want to make sure it's still clear that it's a road bonus which the key does but something graphically would help. I do like the design of the Dalmus castle though. You could put that castle in Northern Frontier instead!

No it is not unnecessary. Having a castle on Chunjaris, Dalmus, and Thereland clearly illustrates how that region works. Each territory connects to each other, and you can not go past each territory. If I took the castle off Dalmus I would need to write yet another note about Dalmus in the rules and I don't see the point in doing that If I can just have a castle on the territory. In short It would just make it more confusing for people learning how to play on the map.

Also concerning the Road bonus counter in the lower left corner. Maybe a visual representation (rather than a written version) would be a more clear and effective way of presenting the bonus structure, what do you guys think?