real bad results in c and a (case resolved.)

[Night Strike]

You people, especially from THOTA, who think this entire issue is just jealousy are just proving that you're out to defend your friend without actually examining the issue at hand. The accusation was completely legitimate and the hunters ruled that Blitzaholic broke the rules of proper account sitting. This case/complaint centers around the rules, not just the player's rank. The accuser felt that Blitz actually got his rank (or improved it) illegally and not just unhonorably like most have, and his complaint was completely legitimate (and found guilty in part).

[elfish_lad]

I'm glad members of THOTA showed up in this thread. I would expect nothing less. It also doesn't surprise me that you claim you haven't read all the posts. I think that's a shame, but I get it.

Nonetheless, if you reach the top you are under scrutiny. Goes with the territory I would guess. I'm sure I'll never know. But this isn't merely a BpB smear campaign against your clan leader. This, for some of us, is the question of what is expected of the Conqueror? Is it merely the math and reaching the top? Or is there something more?

I maintain, without even considering the current player atop the leader board, there is something more.

I would guess "jealousy" has zero to do with this. But maybe that's for others to say.

Cheers.

E.

[Woodruff]

I personally will not write a big post here, main reason being is that it is all boiled out of jealousy.

It certainly is not, at least in my case. I don't belong to a clan, I don't care about points at all nor who is Conqueror and I have nothing against Blitz at all (prior to this fiasco).

I have not read all the crap wrote in all these pages because i tend to stay away from the rumor mills here in the forums.

Instead, you've just gone by what you've been told? Seems that THOTA is doing a lot of that...also seems like there is little support for Blitz on this specific issue outside of THOTA.

You ever notice how when a team no matter what sport team, single player or what ever gets bigger than the sport its self rumors and mudslinging starts...If you cant beat them then try to bring them down to your level.

Rumors? This isn't rumors. This is documented actions.

Blitz has been and is the best player on CC, his record proves it day in and day out any settings and games you want., so why would he need to do anything to improve on that?

An excellent question, and one almost all of us are asking.

If they were rules broke then I would bet anything that it was not intended that way or to cause any problems.

I honestly don't see how it would be POSSIBLE for this to be "not intentional that way or to cause any problems". Truly, I do not.

So all you flunkies that are trying to point fingers and have no idea what your talking about other than the trash your reading here please either learn the man or leave it alone.

You haven't read the thread, but we're the ones that have no idea what we're talking about.

[Leehar]

You people, especially from THOTA, who think this entire issue is just jealousy are just proving that you're out to defend your friend without actually examining the issue at hand. The accusation was completely legitimate and the hunters ruled that Blitzaholic broke the rules of proper account sitting. This case/complaint centers around the rules, not just the player's rank. The accuser felt that Blitz actually got his rank (or improved it) illegally and not just unhonorably like most have, and his complaint was completely legitimate (and found guilty in part).

I don't really see where the complaint about Blitz improving his rank illegally was found legitimate? As someone said earlier in this thread if I remember correctly, the only thing he was found guilty of was joining/accepting invites to games that weren't tourney ones, and thereby being punished for account-sitting abuse? Weren't the other accusations cleared?

If they were rules broke then I would bet anything that it was not intended that way or to cause any problems.

I honestly don't see how it would be POSSIBLE for this to be "not intentional that way or to cause any problems". Truly, I do not.

How do you think it was a deliberate attempt to create havoc? He sat for someone else as he thought best. His primary concern was to make sure the games that he was in with were played, and sometimes accepting invites that were under 10 hours (which is pretty much all I remember from his c&a post). If I remember your earlier posts correctly, your primary gripe seemed to be with regards to some tournament invites being but then most of those games not being played in? Again, understandable, but it doesn't really reek of seeking intentional harm..

My primary interest here is that this again highlights account-sitting problems prevalent. I'd like to just direct this to an analogy that is more familiar with me: 'I'm in a 100 games, but it's suddenly the weekend and I can't make my turns for whatever reason. I can only perhaps contact one of my clan teammates who's in some games with me to perhaps help me make some turns. However, he's only used to playing 20 games at a time (at most) and has a life of his own so he's most probably going to try make only those team games we're in together (which is understandable I'm sure). What happens with regards to the rest?'
It's hopefully a simple enough example, which I think can be stretched to explain this Blitz situation somewhat as well. (extend the example to those other 80 turns not being made regularly and therefore points falling; similarly that the primary individual being sat for doesn't return).
I'm just not sure if the current guidelines are enough to deal with this scenario and other off-shoots satisfactorily, which is where I agree with Fruitcake somewhat that they need to be addressed. Hopefully if Lack gets around to implementing the account-sitting feature it can only improve it, but I'm not really sure if I even know whats the best way to deal with these cases.

[eddie2]

I haven't read this entire thread but I was told what was being said here so decided to stop by and say a few things.This thread imo is a joke and shows how much time certain players on here have.
BW

you should read about the thread before making yourself look silly. how is discussing what should be a proper punishment a joke. we are talking about future events

I think the warning was fair , Blitz in my opinion was pretty silly and as a consequence broke the rules, having known him for a long time though I am certain that nothing sinister was intended.
he been thrown open to bitter and jealous attack ( as evidenced in this thread and others ) punishment enough I feel and those who really know the man will agree.

once again how is this a open and bitter attack.

main reason being is that it is all boiled out of jealousy....I have not read all the crap wrote in all these pages because i tend to stay away from the rumor mills here in the forums.
Blitz has been and is the best player on CC, his record proves it day in and day out any settings and games you want.,

another thota member that has not bothered to read this thread.

Has anybody said he isnt if so i have missed this. read above comments about what this thread is about.

You people, especially from THOTA, who think this entire issue is just jealousy are just proving that you're out to defend your friend without actually examining the issue at hand. The accusation was completely legitimate and the hunters ruled that Blitzaholic broke the rules of proper account sitting. This case/complaint centers around the rules, not just the player's rank. The accuser felt that Blitz actually got his rank (or improved it) illegally and not just unhonorably like most have, and his complaint was completely legitimate (and found guilty in part).

[/quote]

i like this response down to the part in red. the original case was only a jobiwan point dumping case that i contacted a mod about and was told to open a report on opening a report it was brought to me within 20 mins of opening that blitz was sitting his account and showed me a game no (this was not a bpb member). This is what i do not like the fact if i trust someone to sit my account i expect them to sit my account not abuse it.


and leehar i am not even gonna take time to quote your response this thread is about sorting a proper result for this type of case it will be something the admin can look at when they decide to change the rules.

as for witch hunt go play with the other player that stated this as this is about getting admin to give out proper punishment for the crime in future.

[Fruitcake]

.....So all you flunkies ....

Slightly off topic, but that's a bit rich coming from a THOTA member.

[Dako]

I think you all overestimate blitz's ability to plan awful evil things to increase his ranks. I am quite sure blitz is more of a simple guy that tends to forget things he is not focused on are not reminded of. So if we are talking about intentions - I am most sure this whole issue was pointed to point dump jobiwan to lower blitz team point sum. Yes, it happened, but I think it is a mere coincidence.

The main question here is that we need to alter rules about joining tournament games and accepting invites for other players. I think doing anything besides playing turns is an "account sharing abuse". However, we do not have sitting system on the site, so it is a tedious job for hunters to check it every time. It is a time to restate the rules, but this incident has been carried according to rules, and it is perfectly fine. Just the rules are not that good.

[Chariot of Fire]

Coincidence my arse. You play 500+ games with someone, sit his account (for how long who knows) and can't see what is going on?

I've held nothing but the greatest disdain for Blitzaholic for a long time now, though that was born of a resentment for his farming antics more than anything else - the results of which would appear in yet another Top 10 list and more boastful posts about what a great Conqueror he is and how many times he's assumed that mantle. Better still are the hypocritical remarks he's made over the years in regard to others who adopted the practice of playing with low rankers.

Self-serving tournaments and Top 10 lists aside, I'm personally delighted he has been shown up as the charlatan that I blieve he is. With any luck he'll disappear altogether and the leaderboard will resemble something a little more honest and the person at the top will have earned that respect. Ranks....points.....what's the point of the whole system if we idly sit back and allow people to manipulate it?

As for THOTA, well that's no-one's business really. They don't need to 'deal with it' or anything else. It's a fine clan comprising a gifted group of players and I expect nothing less than for its members to publicly defend one of their own, notwithstanding the fact the guy started the clan (kinda makes it harder to kick him out - something I'd do at the drop of a hat if anyone in TOFU did the same).

Funny....one thing Blitz has kept saying over the past 12 months: "TOFU haven't proven themselves yet".

Well we've proven we're not cheats for starters.

Save face. Quit the site.

[gannable]

Personally, i dislike Blitzaholic because the guy is all about self promotion.
Everything letter that he types is geared towards telling everyone how great he is.

The turning point for me -
There was once a thread "who is the greatest player on CC"
I jokingly stated i was the best. Anyone who didn't take themselves too seriously would know it was a joke. He proceeded to send me a two paragraph private email stating why he was better than me, why i sucked, and he included our winning %'s against one another. THe email was totally unprovoked because i never even hinted at his name or anyone's name in my original posting. (ironically my winning % improved following the email)

w/ that said I don't think he should be banned.
also, i have respect for every other THOTA player and i like the rest of them, especially Big Whiskey and AAFitz.
i would play games with or against any of them any time so i hope none of them my opinion of him against me, its not a reflection on anyone else.

[Commander62890]

Could you change the wording of the poll, Eddie?

"should the case mentioned of got" is really bugging me.

[eddie2]

Could you change the wording of the poll, Eddie?

"should the case mentioned of got" is really bugging me.

done if you want it different jus give me a shout.

[natty dread]

I think the "of" instead of "have" or "'ve" is what is bugging him. At least, it's bugging me.

[Leehar]

Coincidence my arse. You play 500+ games with someone, sit his account (for how long who knows) and can't see what is going on?

I've held nothing but the greatest disdain for Blitzaholic for a long time now, though that was born of a resentment for his farming antics more than anything else - the results of which would appear in yet another Top 10 list and more boastful posts about what a great Conqueror he is and how many times he's assumed that mantle. Better still are the hypocritical remarks he's made over the years in regard to others who adopted the practice of playing with low rankers.

Self-serving tournaments and Top 10 lists aside, I'm personally delighted he has been shown up as the charlatan that I blieve he is. With any luck he'll disappear altogether and the leaderboard will resemble something a little more honest and the person at the top will have earned that respect. Ranks....points.....what's the point of the whole system if we idly sit back and allow people to manipulate it?

As for THOTA, well that's no-one's business really. They don't need to 'deal with it' or anything else. It's a fine clan comprising a gifted group of players and I expect nothing less than for its members to publicly defend one of their own, notwithstanding the fact the guy started the clan (kinda makes it harder to kick him out - something I'd do at the drop of a hat if anyone in TOFU did the same).

Funny....one thing Blitz has kept saying over the past 12 months: "TOFU haven't proven themselves yet".

Well we've proven we're not cheats for starters.

Save face. Quit the site.

No offense CoF, but do you not see the irony in this? I'm sure there are quite a few comparisons that can be made between this and the Cup semi's debacle that happened with you. Is it really so hard for anyone to believe that Blitz made a mistake with no, or very little ill-intent?
Perhaps he is any number of prideful things, but again, I really don't see any indication in this case (as eddie seems to suggest) of an action that was at major infraction level...

[eddie2]

lol the fact that the c and a case was opened then blitz makes a statement then 4 days later starts signing him up to tourney and non tourney again is why people see it as major.


ok leehar lets have a look at something there was a statement in c and a

Hold on all I was asked to help with Jobiwan's turns and stated so in game chat , I'm the one that joined him up in invites as I did not know he was not going to show up and they looked important to him. That being said Blitz ask me if Jobi had played any games and not to join anymore games for him, and my reply was no I have been playing them and that is when I quit joining games for him and only play the ones that he was or is in with us. So if anyone but Jobi deserves any foul called on them its me. Now eddie you should say your sorry to Blitz and anyone else involved with this against Blitz.

this came from leolou. now look at the turns missed between the 10th and the day this post was made jobi was missing in all tourney games. blitz and leo were the sitters jobi allocated to play. so this message from blitz must of came before all the missed turns. so why say it and someone still signs him up to tourney games and quad games missing all the tourneys but playing all the quads

so yes this proves intent to point dump.

[Pirlo]

┌П┐(-_-)┌П┐

No comment

[Woodruff]

If they were rules broke then I would bet anything that it was not intended that way or to cause any problems.

I honestly don't see how it would be POSSIBLE for this to be "not intentional that way or to cause any problems". Truly, I do not.

How do you think it was a deliberate attempt to create havoc? He sat for someone else as he thought best. His primary concern was to make sure the games that he was in with were played, and sometimes accepting invites that were under 10 hours (which is pretty much all I remember from his c&a post). If I remember your earlier posts correctly, your primary gripe seemed to be with regards to some tournament invites being but then most of those games not being played in? Again, understandable, but it doesn't really reek of seeking intentional harm..

I disagree. The havoc caused is exactly as you state...in the tournaments. Surely you're not suggesting that Blitz is ignorant of the impact of Jobiwan deadbeating out of ALL of those tournaments would have on those tournament organizers, other tournament participants and the tournaments themselves? It's not like he joined games for only one tournament. If so, I think you do him a disservice.

[sonicsteve]

Quite so, woodruff. This has directly impacted a couple of tourneys I'm in, so I can speak from first hand experience, unlike many commentators in this thread. I was in a number of games where he got the start and a decent drop but never even took the first turn after joining. In one of those tourneys I believe the deadbeating may have swung the final result.

If he had simply not joined the games, or had joined and then taken turns, it would have been much fairer.

Let's also remember the extent of the point dumping on jobiwan's behalf. I will have to check these facts with map rank later, but in the c&a thread it was stated that jobiwan had dropped from 1800 points to 500. Add to that the points he was winning from team games with blitz and I would guesstimate that at least 1500 points were dropped. Need to check the figures, but this is not the 'few points' mentioned in this thread.

Leehar, equating point-dumping a friends account for a small gain with accidentally joining 21 instead of 20 games is ridiculous. You can fairly easily join one extra game, you can't simply lose someone else 1500 points by accident.

Finally, CoF is right - this is not about clans, nor is it a witchhunt.

IMO it's just an examination of facts and whether the facts show that the conqueror is using dubious means to maintain his position.

[Pirlo]

Has anybody got similar cases where they thought the result was a joke.

yeah I have. ArmySpeeder just wanted to forget his point dumping +1 year ago, but this site doesn't forgive him for breaking rules one year ago. see how it holds a forever grudge!

[eddie2]

Has anybody got similar cases where they thought the result was a joke.

yeah I have. ArmySpeeder just wanted to forget his point dumping +1 year ago, but this site doesn't forgive him for breaking rules one year ago. see how it holds a forever grudge!

for that you can use the player rowney point dumping case. he was busted as a point dumper but is back playing again.
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... y#p2380552

and yes i was busted 2 but it was my early days but still no excuse for it

[Serbia]

Jobiwan had played in at least one of my 1v1 tourneys previously, and I thought of him as a relatively strong player. In fact, I'm sure he was at least a lieutenant, if not a captain. So when he recently (a few weeks ago) signed up to my latest 1v1 as a cook, I was quite surprised. Even more so when he was missing a ton of turns. He was delaying the entire tournament. It got to be such a hassle that, even though he had more games to play, I just removed him from the tournament and advanced his opponent (who was leading anyway). So yes, I know first had that the deadbeating has been an issue in tournaments, effecting not just jobiwan, but others as well (even if it's just the inconvenience of waiting on a deadbeat).

[Chariot of Fire]

"I know what you're thinking, 'Did he enter me in six tourneys or five?'. Well to tell you the truth in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But this being CC and me the most powerful conqueror in the world you've gotta ask yourself a question 'Do I feel lucky?'. Well do ya, cook?"

[lokisgal]

I . Blitz has been and is the best player on CC,....

Seriously? You all in thota have several players who could dance circles around Blitz - hes merely the biggest self promoter on CC hardly the best player. Good yes. Best not now not ever. And in any case how is this even relevant to what hes done? Clearly the best player on here would be not only skilled but honest as well.

[lord voldemort]

yer he is good...but i have played with and against better...

[Seulessliathan]

First of all let me say that i have a lot of respect for many Thota members, i often play with some of them and consider them as friends, i have no hard feelings against Thota, i have even been asked if i would consider joining them. So this is no witch hunt and nothing personal against Thota from my part, just some thoughts.

You people, especially from THOTA, who think this entire issue is just jealousy are just proving that you're out to defend your friend without actually examining the issue at hand. The accusation was completely legitimate and the hunters ruled that Blitzaholic broke the rules of proper account sitting. This case/complaint centers around the rules, not just the player's rank. The accuser felt that Blitz actually got his rank (or improved it) illegally and not just unhonorably like most have, and his complaint was completely legitimate (and found guilty in part).

So a rule had been broken, this is no witch hunt. Playing 553 games together and then such a strange situation ... But there is already a discussion over 9 pages, so
i won´t repeat things which have already been said here before for now, perhaps later i will add some stuff if necessary. Playing 553 games together and then such a strange situation ...
So ... something new .... a question which didn´t come up yet. what would Blitz do in this case ? ... wait, we already know what he suggests for these cases, you will know it in case you have ever looked at his top 5 lists.

Forms of abuse will have an asterik *, and cheaters are non-existent!

I think Blitz would suggest that we use this for the official scoreboard too.
And he would suggest new rules which can deal with situations like this one. Looks like most of us agree that we don´t want that player increase their rank by dumping points of their teammates, no matter if this is what Blitz did or not. A rule has been broken and some stuff looks suspicous, but i don´t know if it was a strange mistake or intention. What i know is that it would hurt CC if such behaviour would be legal and several people would act like that in future. So it´s in Blitz´s interest too that we find good solutions for this.

[pearljamrox2]

This is so interesting. And to all those who say this is just mud-slinging, he basically DUMPED a truckload of sand on the lawn, turned on the waterhose, and SOAKED it for about a month. We are up to our knees in mud. There is nothing saying we have to sling it but.....

Honestly, I'm not one of those people that chase Blitz around and try to offset his self promoting, and point out his hypocrisy. I've accepted him as one of the most accomplished players around. I've had no axe to grind with him, or anyone really.

Folks can talk about intent and precedent, and that's all fine and good when making an official ruling on it. And yes, it's good to talk about this so perhaps something can be done if this or something similar, were to happen in the future.

The masses are not going to turn a blind eye, and let this be swept under the rug. The Conqueror has gone to great lengths to grow his reputation, and that profile has been tarnished by this fiasco.

I think the silence is very telling, and wise. There is really nothing that can be said, no defense for the acts that were perpetrated. Maybe the rule enforcers on this site had to make the ruling they did, because of how the rules are...but the court of public opinion seems to agree that not only was this shady, but shady on several different levels.

Point dumping? Whether it was intentional or not, the effects are the same. C'mon, he is no noob. How could he continually accept all those tourny invites, and let them deadbeat like that? You really don't think he understood what was happening with Jobi's points? Points were massively dumped. Jobi wasn't the one accepting the invites.

What bugs me the most. It's one thing to team with low rankers and tell them every little move to make. Fine, it's not technically farming. Points manipulation? Sure. Cheap? I think so. But whatever. It's another thing completely though, when you are taking the turns for that low ranker. Ofcourse I'm not talking about occasionally covering a turn. I'm talking about a top player using a low rankers account systematically as a second account (multi). And the proof is he admitted joining Jobi to his quad games and to tournament games. While only taking the turns in the Quad games and ignoring the tournys. If Jobi was around even half of the time taking his own turns, he wouldnt have been mass deadbeating the other games. So, Blitz was joining Jobi to his games..and playing out entire games. I'm sure he could find a few cooks that would team with him. But this handy little trick let's him bypass the need to trust that cook to play things out how he wants them too. He had his own personal little cook. It was himself. Jobi was practically his multi.

I know, I'm not exactly breaking the case here, I'm basically just rehashing things that have already been said. But I am part of the public, so that's my opinion. But in the process of doing so, It does make me think. Where is the line? Where is the fine line between "account sitting abuse" and using a dormant friends account as a second account. Normally, it might not be so noticeable or ad-van-ta-ges. But when it's THE CONQUEROR using a cooks account to game the points system......exactly what line would he need to cross....or for how long, before it OFFICIALLY goes from "account sitting abuse" to "using multiple accounts"?

Do you know what i mean folks? I think that part is shady enough, but then you add on the whole massive point loss.

It's noteworthy because of who it was. It's also an interesting and unique situation because of the points and ranks involved. It just seems so dirty.

I don't know if anything positive could come from this discussion or not. Part of me thinks they probably didn't want to come down too hard on him anyway. So a rule change, or clarification isn't necessary. I'm sure if they really wanted to, and chose to, they could have interpreted and applied the rules differently the way they are currently.

Someone compared it to Barry Bonds. Nah...I don't think so. Blitz can still play anyone at any game and show he is a great player. It's more of a fallen angel, innocence lost kind of thing. That can't feel good.