Classic Cities Jakarta [Quenched]

[natty dread]

Frankly, it's still better than your current borders here.

Have you tried working with a high zoom and doing the lines small bit at a time? Also, use the ink tool instead of paintbrush for thin lines. You can also do straight lines with all painting tools by holding shift and clicking somewhere.

[Geger]

Bonus names changed to suggested names.

Good, but you didn't change all of them. "North Selatan" is kinda funny, because Selatan is South in English. You can't call a region with "North South" right?

Perhaps my suggested names weren't so clear, here they are :

North Selatan should change to Barat Daya (=South West)
South Selatan or Barat Daya in the last map should change to Selatan (=South)
North Timur should change to Timur (=East)
South Timur should change to Tenggara (=South East)... this one is already correct

And one more thing : Change Cempaka to Senen, because like I wrote before Cempaka was part of Senen in the past, and beside it Senen is one of famous place in Jakarta

[koontz1973]

Sorry Geger about the names. Most likly me looking when tired. Hope these ones are correct.

Click image to enlarge.

[koontz1973]

Darkened the board.
Made the pussat borders the same as normal territ lines.

Click image to enlarge.

Are there any game play concerns now?

[natty dread]

Why is Pusat 8? I think it should be max. 6.

[Geger]

Darkened the board.
Made the pussat borders the same as normal territ lines.

Click image to enlarge.

Almost Perfect, you forgot to change Cempaka to Senen.

And I find 2 typos on the name :

Jatenegara should be Jatinegara
Kebon Juruk should be Kebon Jeruk

Are there any game play concerns now?

I have no idea, just ask natty

[koontz1973]

Once again, thanks Geger. Will change those as soon as I get home from work.

[koontz1973]

Why is Pusat 8? I think it should be max. 6.

I defered that judgement to the boys in blue who suggested it. It does seem high so a 6 or 7 might be better. A 6 territ region with 5 borders is going to be hard to get but harder to hold. I cannot imagine this being grabbed early and held.

[natty dread]

Why is Pusat 8? I think it should be max. 6.

I defered that judgement to the boys in blue who suggested it. It does seem high so a 6 or 7 might be better. A 6 territ region with 5 borders is going to be hard to get but harder to hold. I cannot imagine this being grabbed early and held.

Even 7 is overdoing it. It only has 5 borders, and while it may not be held early, it should still be balanced relative to the other bonuses.

There's a bonus right next to it with 6 borders and 8 regions, and it has a value of 6. Now, with this bonus having a more central location, 6 is an appropriate value for it, but it definitely should not be higher than the adjacent bonus.

[koontz1973]

I will make it 6 then.

[isaiah40]

Sorry, but Pusat should be higher because as I have stated before Pusat has every territory but one having to defend. There are 8 adjacent territories that can attack Pusat, while Barat only has 5 adjacent territories to defend against. While 8 may be on the high side 7 I believe is the optimum number for Pusat.

[koontz1973]

Changed names and spelling thanks to Geger. Pusat is now a 7. Sorry natty but 6 was to low IMO and the boys in blue want a 7. More than happy to oblige them with that.

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

and the boys in blue want a 7.

Well, the boys in dark green want a 6.

Sorry, but Pusat should be higher because as I have stated before Pusat has every territory but one having to defend. There are 8 adjacent territories that can attack Pusat, while Barat only has 5 adjacent territories to defend against. While 8 may be on the high side 7 I believe is the optimum number for Pusat.

Pusat has 5 border regions, and 6 regions total. The bonus next to it, Barat, has 8 regions and 6 border regions. Even if Pusat is in a more central location, making it higher than Barat makes no sense. The more central location can justify having it at the same level as Barat, but certainly not higher.

The amount of regions that can assault a bonus has very little significance, the amount of borders is much more relevant. It is the amount of borders that decides how many ways you have to divide your deployment, while the amount of assaulting regions pretty much only matters in the cases where you can use them to reduce your borders. Neither area has any way of reducing their border count.

[koontz1973]

Utara is undervalued at 3. I am going to take the bridge out from between priok and kema in pusat. lower pusat to 6 and this should balance the centre out nicely.

[koontz1973]

Done as above.

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

Sounds good.

[Victor Sullivan]

Hm, well now you've decreased Pusat's borders to 4, so 6 is rather steep now. It should be lowered to a +5. This will also add a bit of diversity to your bonus values.

-Sully

[natty dread]

This will also add a bit of diversity to your bonus values.

Which is relevant because...?

[koontz1973]

Hm, well now you've decreased Pusat's borders to 4, so 6 is rather steep now. It should be lowered to a +5. This will also add a bit of diversity to your bonus values.

-Sully

I have never heard of diversity used as an excuse to lower or make higher a bonus number.
A 6 region bonus area with 4 borders that can be attacked from 7 territs in a central location allows this to be a six. The same can be said of Utara. This has the same bonus of 3 as Barat Daya, Timur and Tenggara with the same borders but has one extra territ. 3 is good but a 4 would would slightly over value it. I am now more than happy for the values to stay as they are unless anyone can give a reason to lower or raise them.

[Victor Sullivan]

This will also add a bit of diversity to your bonus values.

Which is relevant because...?

I'm not using it as the foundation of my argument, but it is relevant to an extent. A map is less appealing if it has only a few different bonus area sizes and values. As it stands, we have four +3's, two +6's, and a +2 - not great.

Hm, well now you've decreased Pusat's borders to 4, so 6 is rather steep now. It should be lowered to a +5. This will also add a bit of diversity to your bonus values.

-Sully

I have never heard of diversity used as an excuse to lower or make higher a bonus number.
A 6 region bonus area with 4 borders that can be attacked from 7 territs in a central location allows this to be a six. The same can be said of Utara. This has the same bonus of 3 as Barat Daya, Timur and Tenggara with the same borders but has one extra territ. 3 is good but a 4 would would slightly over value it. I am now more than happy for the values to stay as they are unless anyone can give a reason to lower or raise them.

I wasn't using diversity as the foundation for my argument. If that were the case, I'd agree, it would be weak at best. In this case, the number of territories adjacent to the bonus area isn't enough to justify a +1 on its own. However, if you factor that along with the bonus area's centrality (which is synonymous, really), that would justify an increase of +1 from the standard +4 it would otherwise be valued at. And, if you compare Pusat to Barat, Barat is much harder to hold - 8 territories, 6 borders (could be reduced to 9 territories, 5 borders with Gambir) as opposed to Pusat's 6 territories and 4 borders.

-Sully

[natty dread]

A map is less appealing if it has only a few different bonus area sizes and values. As it stands, we have four +3's, two +6's, and a +2 - not great.

According to whom?

It doesn't matter if the bonus values are all 2:s, if that's what makes a balanced map. I've really never heard the argument that the bonus values should be "diverse" in a map...

In this case, the number of territories adjacent to the bonus area isn't enough to justify a +1 on its own. However, if you factor that along with the bonus area's centrality (which is synonymous, really), that would justify an increase of +1 from the standard +4 it would otherwise be valued at. And, if you compare Pusat to Barat, Barat is much harder to hold - 8 territories, 6 borders (could be reduced to 9 territories, 5 borders with Gambir) as opposed to Pusat's 6 territories and 4 borders.

Pusat is in a location which justifies the extra value. I don't want it being higher than Barat, but I see no reason to lower it to 5 either. In fact, Pusat has the worst location on the map - it's in a place where everyone is going to want to go through. The poor sod who takes Pusat will end up fighting against everyone. So 6 is not at all unjustified even with 4 borders.

[koontz1973]

To have diversity of bonus numbers I think has never in CC history been used to force a change in bonus numbers.

But I think you are right Sully, any map that has 4 bonus regions of 3 and 2 of 6 will never get played. tI will be so boring for players in foggy games trying to work out which of the bonuses are held.

In case the smilie did not say it, that last comment was sarcastic.

[koontz1973]

Got bored so I did the small one to make sure it all fits and readable.

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

[J_Indr]

I must admit I am having hard time reading the font on the small map. Regions like Cilincing, Tambora, or Kemayoran are the main problems. I think it's because the font presses lower-case 'n' and 'm' very close to the letters around. Maybe you could solve it by having a larger gap between the letters (if that is at all possible)?

[koontz1973]

I see what you mean with the m but I think the n is OK. Will solve that problem with the next update.