4 Star Meats [Quenched]

[gimil]

I think there is more than enough room for a map like this on CC.

Doodle Earth faced an immense up-hill battle (and I contributed to that up-hill battle at the time), but I'm glad the C.A.s and I didn't try to stop the development of it!


--Andy

Doodle earth is different, it took the classic concept an downsized it. That is the twist that made that map successful.

Let me take my mod shoes off before continuing. I want to make it clear that what I am about to say is based off 7 maps and years of experience in the foundry as a member of this foundry community.

Sorry dana1971, to me this idea sucks. I have seem hundreds of maps of what I can only describe as arbitrary subjects that people try to make a map out of. I have seen attempts at making guitars, pencils and vomit (to name just a few) into maps. Cow is just another in a long line of arbitrary ideas that on't really fit what (I feel) a CC map should be.

I have no will to offend you dana1971 but to me the reality is that this map idea has n potential. But that is not just my opinion, that is my opinion with the experience to back it.

Mod shoes back on. That does not mean that I will stop your map from being developed. If your map continues to develop and has support there is nothing stopping it go all the way. What I am saying is I do not like the idea and will not be supporting it because I don't think it works or will be successful. I hope I haven't sounded to much like an ass. I am just trying to be honest with you.


Good luck,
gimil

[dana1971]

So it seems i've created a controversial map. Cool.

[gimil]

So it seems i've created a controversial map. Cool.

Its not so much the map that is controversial, we have seen many like it. Its just that it has managed to get to this point that i controversial

[dana1971]

Still good in my books:)

[gimil]

Still good in my books:)

Fair enough, all I can do at this point is wish you luck.

[koontz1973]

So it seems i've created a controversial map. Cool.

Its not so much the map that is controversial, we have seen many like it. Its just that it has managed to get to this point that is controversial

Still good in my books:)

It is posts like this that I find amusing.

I understand that you think the map is good enough to go forward and you are looking for feedback to try and give you a better map, but trying to make a controversial map, this is not really the way to go about it. No map like this has ever gotton through the foundry and that alone must tell you something. Good or bad, you have a talent that could make lots of great maps for the site, why start with something like this? Ask yourself, what is it about a cow that lends itself to a war game? Instead of a cow map, why not a whole farm and base it on the Animal Farm book? That alone would give you far more scope to work with and make for a more interesting game to play.

[rmt333]

just to play devils advocate to the above opposing view points a cow very much becomes sectioned to the butcher. Different sections are worth different values to a butcher and how he sections can be both individualistic or conform with a school of training....just saying

i still hope to play this map in some format...how it plays will ultimately be the most important aspect.

[dana1971]

Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback so far.

Here is a new version of the map with fat barriers. I feel I could improve the look of the map but right now I want to focus on getting the game play right.

Click image to enlarge.

Love to hear what you all think.

Best Wishes,
Dana

[oaktown]

It's rare that I venture into a Conk map thread these days, and when I do so it's usually to witness a train wreck. I came into this thread fully expecting to find a steaming pile, and I don't mean the one in the bottom left corner.

Instead... I kinda dig it.

There's some fun stuff going on here. The cow pat and grass attacking the hooves are brilliant, though I'm not clear as to why the pat comes from the tail and not the rump or bottom round. And there may as well be an e-coli reference. If you're going to go there, you may as well go all the way.

Lord of the Flies is weak - the region adds nothing to the gameplay and the title isn't all that clever.

As for gameplay, the middle of the map is a wasteland. Anybody who starts there is going to get hammered from both sides and lose. Something needs to be done to protect some of the middle territories.

But my biggest beef (see what I did there?) with the map is that it the fun theme isn't reflected in the graphics. This could be hilarious, but instead it's another drab map on parchment (for which I'm often guilty). Don't get me wrong, I'm ever so pleased that the typical Conquer Club pastel ice-pick-to-the-eyes palette isn't being used here, but the look of the map utterly (uh huh) lacks whimsey.

If you really want to push this project to the next level, have some fun with it. Find a theme and really milk it (yes I did). One direction to go would be to make this look like some cheesy (yup) beef industry educational campaign poster - like you're trying to take something pretty disgusting and make it attractive to a six year old.

[Bruceswar]

You still need to even out your lines between the territories.

[Butters1919]

Lord of the Flies is weak - the region adds nothing to the gameplay and the title isn't all that clever.

But my biggest beef (see what I did there?) with the map is that it the fun theme isn't reflected in the graphics. This could be hilarious, but instead it's another drab map on parchment (for which I'm often guilty). Don't get me wrong, I'm ever so pleased that the typical Conquer Club pastel ice-pick-to-the-eyes palette isn't being used here, but the look of the map utterly (uh huh) lacks whimsey.

If you really want to push this project to the next level, have some fun with it. Find a theme and really milk it (yes I did). One direction to go would be to make this look like some cheesy (yup) beef industry educational campaign poster - like you're trying to take something pretty disgusting and make it attractive to a six year old.

I disagree (that coming from someone with NO experience in map making - but lot's with map playing). I think the flies add to the theme and gameplay (perhaps the tail should one way assault the flies to represent the usual action of a cow swinging it's tail to clear a haze of flies). I do agree that the naming of said flies could be better, but that is minor.

More to the point, I think the graphics are great! I'm no graphical wizard. All I can do is look at it and make a gut judgement. Having played most, if not all, of the maps on this site, this one, as it stands right now, is clearly in the top 20%. Graphically, it's better than some of the maps currently coming out of the foundry. I see no need to add any additional material (such as turning it into an educational poster).

But, that's just one person's humble opinion!

[AndyDufresne]

I think Oaktown makes some valid points. In general, it is best to be open to discussion about how improvements could work, than to say that the map looks great as it this. More users will want to give feedback on a map if they feel like they are being listened to actively.

Best of luck,


--Andy

[Flapcake]

To cut to the bone (I can also) then your "Teme" is a combined mixture of a live cow that graze and shit and flies swarm around it, and then a butcher's map of where the steaks are placed so they can be cut out.
I also thought that you should make a more solid composition of the theme no matter what your intentions was around your map.
Making it a map of steaks location you should find a more slaughterhouse theme (which I think will be the easiest and best solution) is it a cow that goes on the field and graze and shit, you should find a more farmhouse theme, but if you insists in a combination of both, I think that the task is reasonably difficult for you, I do even belive that your map has potential.

Flap

[Butters1919]

I think Oaktown makes some valid points. In general, it is best to be open to discussion about how improvements could work, than to say that the map looks great as it this. More users will want to give feedback on a map if they feel like they are being listened to actively.

Best of luck,


--Andy

My apologies if my comments were taken as such. I though I was engaging in a discussion. I can't disagree that improvements can be made, I was just disagreeing with the improvements suggested.

[The Bison King]

I like the slaughter house theme!!!! I want to see some blood on the page!

[AndyDufresne]

My apologies if my comments were taken as such. I though I was engaging in a discussion. I can't disagree that improvements can be made, I was just disagreeing with the improvements suggested.

Gotcha, Butters!


--Andy

[dana1971]

Hey thanks for the feedback. I do want to make the map more pretty, and I thought about adding more blood (There is some subtle blood spatters in there but perhaps to subtle. I tried putting pictures of raw steak on the edges, but it got cluttered, I also tried putting butchers string in there but I need to work on the composition more.

The original idea was for is to be a kind of butchers map, but for game play reasons I added the grass, flies and poo, and thought it related nicely to Mad Cow disease. So now I see this as a real cow in a field seen through the eyes of a butcher.

In terms of the name for the flies, would the simple name flies be better? Seems more fun to call it lord of the flies to me. I also don't think the fly region is a waste. It's a kind of short cut to get to certain regions faster.

I made the poo fall from the tail for cosmetic reasons, because it was cleaner that way, and well, less gross.

Interesting idea to give the tail the ability to bombard the flies.
Another idea someone had was to allow access from the mouth to the grass, but I wonder if all these added elements make it to complicated? Will need to think.

Finally I guess I need to go through the long task of creating all the lines in the cow with vectors rather than hand drawing it, because I will not be able to make all the lines exactly the same thickness any other way.

Keep the comments coming.
Best Wishes,
Dana

[MrBenn]

I don't really like the concept of the map, but if you'[re going to make it work you probably would be better going down the "faux-educational-poster" theme...

[dana1971]

Thanks for all the images. I did do a fair bit of research, and felt what I came up with was a nice simple map, that had enough regions and twists to make it interesting. So I'm clear are you suggesting changing the gameplay or just the general look of the map?

[AndyDufresne]

I think the general aspect of your gameplay is probably alright. It seems like some think it doesn't fit with overall generic theme you have currently employed, or at least, that strides could be made to improve the overall theme.


--Andy

[Victor Sullivan]

It's rare that I venture into a Conk map thread these days, and when I do so it's usually to witness a train wreck. I came into this thread fully expecting to find a steaming pile, and I don't mean the one in the bottom left corner.

Instead... I kinda dig it.

There's some fun stuff going on here. The cow pat and grass attacking the hooves are brilliant, though I'm not clear as to why the pat comes from the tail and not the rump or bottom round. And there may as well be an e-coli reference. If you're going to go there, you may as well go all the way.

Lord of the Flies is weak - the region adds nothing to the gameplay and the title isn't all that clever.

As for gameplay, the middle of the map is a wasteland. Anybody who starts there is going to get hammered from both sides and lose. Something needs to be done to protect some of the middle territories.

But my biggest beef (see what I did there?) with the map is that it the fun theme isn't reflected in the graphics. This could be hilarious, but instead it's another drab map on parchment (for which I'm often guilty). Don't get me wrong, I'm ever so pleased that the typical Conquer Club pastel ice-pick-to-the-eyes palette isn't being used here, but the look of the map utterly (uh huh) lacks whimsey.

If you really want to push this project to the next level, have some fun with it. Find a theme and really milk it (yes I did). One direction to go would be to make this look like some cheesy (yup) beef industry educational campaign poster - like you're trying to take something pretty disgusting and make it attractive to a six year old.

I think oaktown is on pat here.

This map is a bunch of bull. I love it.

-Sully

[rmt333]

lol...nice puns oaktown.

i agree the middle could be a wasteland...the fat borders seem to help that though now...good addition....still a fan of this one and hope it gets at least to beta.

[Industrial Helix]

I saw this vegetarian ad and found it amusing and it reminded me of this map

[natty dread]

Wow, Peta... stay classy.

[isaiah40]

[Moved]

It would appear that development of this map has stalled. If the mapmaker wants to continue with the map, then one of the Foundry Moderators will be able to help put the thread back into the Foundry system, after an update has been made.