account sitting issues..new rule? <updated - see 1st post>

[jbrettlip]

Well said Twill.

I think handicap games would be a great idea.I know I would play that!

I don't think account sitting is as flagrant as people are assuming it is. Owen may take a turn for me in a double or triple game, but he isn't taking multiple turns for me. Maybe 1 or two, especially near the end of a game. I have regualr hours and he doesn't, so to speed a game along, he may take a turn at 2 AM for me. when you are playing people around the world, the sooner you take your turn, the sooner they can take theirs. We aren't winning 90% of our games, so I think that is proof of it not being a true advantage.

Again this has nothing to do with freestyle where I could see it being an advantage.

[greenoaks]

Seriously, in sequential, there is no advantage whatsoever.

that statement is just wrong.

if your team mate is unable to take his turn the opposing team gets the opportunity to break whatever bonuses he has, reduce his total number of territories and secure their own position before he returns. the advantage of taking your team mate's turn is you prevent the opposition from getting the upper hand.

as it is likely the casual team game player does not know their team mate well they are unlikely to share their account password with them. a missed turn by one of them will be punished by an account sharing team who will not provide any missed turn opportunities in return. this scenario is unfair to the casual team player.

if on the other hand your team mate can log on in time but not for say another 10 hours. you take his turn as he would take it, your opponent moves, you move, your other opponent moves and it is back to your team mate's turn in time for him to log in. no advantage is gained or lost by anyone. in this situation all players benefit from increased round speed.

[jbrettlip]

So what you are saying is an established team has an advantage over a team of that doesn't know each other? That is obvious.

Missed turns should not fall into anyone's strategy. In a true game, there are no missed turns. The missed turns rules have been discussed and tweaked for the last year. I think saying that a player would miss a turn, giving advantage to Team #2, but having Team #1 rob them of that advantage by taking his partner's turn, is inherently wrong. A missed turn should not be part of the game, but without a clock, these games would never end.

Plus what we are debating is not only when I would miss a turn, but when I am traveling without my laptop, and don't want to pay to use a computer to take turns on CC. So I call my friend nad he takes my turns. He does this in singles or team games. The question is: Is that against the rules (not as currently written) and should it be (time or twill will tell).

[detlef]

Seriously, in sequential, there is no advantage whatsoever.

that statement is just wrong.

if your team mate is unable to take his turn the opposing team gets the opportunity to break whatever bonuses he has, reduce his total number of territories and secure their own position before he returns. the advantage of taking your team mate's turn is you prevent the opposition from getting the upper hand.

Dude, you're really not arguing this point are you? That's the cheapest reason imaginable to fight babysitting.

[Natewolfman]

Seriously, in sequential, there is no advantage whatsoever.

that statement is just wrong.

if your team mate is unable to take his turn the opposing team gets the opportunity to break whatever bonuses he has, reduce his total number of territories and secure their own position before he returns. the advantage of taking your team mate's turn is you prevent the opposition from getting the upper hand.

Dude, you're really not arguing this point are you? That's the cheapest reason imaginable to fight babysitting.

I agree 110%, weakest case ive seen yet... If we are really trying to mimic risk, missed turns should NEVER happen... as far as im concerned we are playing a board game, spaced out between time, therefor missed turns should never HAVE to be taken into account... its unfortunate that missed turns happens but saying that the team must take the missed turn just because they cant get to the computer is inharently wrong, especially for the reason to give the other team a better chance

P.S. it took me over an hour to read everything in this post... i gota keep up with it now

[jiminski]

I have a mate, who i play for sometimes!
If he has been into hospital or he is too tired from treatment then i sometimes take some of his games so he can enjoy a few but that it is not a burden.

I only do this in Sequential, and games we do not play singles together in. the rule i would break is the 24 hour rule!
But no advantage is gained except to a sick buddy that is!

If you say i can not help my mate out when he needs it, you can ban me now.. no worries!

[greenoaks]

the point is you are suppose to be playing your own account so missed turns are relevant.

when someone says there is NO advantage to playing your team mates account then they are plain wrong. the advantage is you avoid missed turns and the consequences that might have arisen from them. that is the reason LoVo gave for getting someone to play his games for him. his babysitting was done to deny the opposition an advantage.

i don't have a problem with people playing each others accounts so long as the opposition are aware of it beforehand. they can then choose not to play in that game or to use the same tactics themselves.

[jiminski]

the point is you are suppose to be playing your own account so missed turns are relevant.

when someone says there is NO advantage to playing your team mates account then they are plain wrong. the advantage is you avoid missed turns and the consequences that might have arisen from them. that is the reason LoVo gave for getting someone to play his games for him. his babysitting was done to deny the opposition an advantage.

i don't have a problem with people playing each others accounts so long as the opposition are aware of it beforehand. they can then choose not to play in that game or to use the same tactics themselves.

Get with the plan Oaky...

We need to talk about this in general... let us face it Freestyle is the format which is up for abuse and the one where true advantage can be brokered.. it appears that we are talking about a blanket imposition of strict adherence to the 24 hour rule.

I do not play Freestyle but I can not adhere to that rule in my friends Sequential games.

As i say i am sure that we will see sense prevail.

[jbrettlip]

So if it is written that teammates in sequential can take each others turn, for any reason, you would be ok with it? But you argue vehemently that not missing a turn gives the team an unfair advantage? I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing. I do that alot as well too, but usually I make a stronger case for what I am for. You are saying it is ok if disclosed, but not ok if not disclosed.

PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT: OWEN MAY TAKE MY TURNS IN ANY TEAM GAME I PLAY.

Now I guess that strategic advantage has dissolved?

[Blitzaholic]

I am stunned and dismayed at the official response by wicked over this.


It flies in the face of natural logic of a team game to say another team member cannot take a turn should one be unable to take the requisite turn within a certain time frame. It also flies in the face of life logic. To punish a person who has a requirement more important than playing here on cc is mind numbingly shocking. It is also deplorable and scandalous for the powers that be to assume such an attitude.

We are entering dangerous waters here. Any set law would always need to be liquid, if not, then what cc is asking is for paying and non paying members to break the rules to ensure the continuance and good play of the very game they have put together!! Are we going to end up with etickets asking for time off being sent BEFORE the player is absent? After all, it does not require a great imagination (and I do not have one but have worked this out) that should someone only have a few minutes, logs in, takes some turns, sends an IM/text etc to a team mate, warns them of the time run on another turn, get them to take the turn, then be punished for this. So a 24 hour set rule would be assinine, so would any time frame QED the eticket request form thought. Alternatively what would happen if all transgressors were rooted out and punished, not a great idea for a growing business to alienate its income stream I would have thought (but then what do I know).


Surely the Management of this site should be asking themselves how they can facilitate this whole problem, not sending out warnings to players.

well said, listen all in CC there is NO specific rule to a 24 hour as Twill already spoke, so wicked just got perplexed a little.

If you made a 24 hour rule, I know of many mods or cc site workers that have broken this of the years, but I wont mention names, and almost all clans with their members have at times done this, I mean real life happens and you cannot predict when a person will be back, I mean lack would go postal if you banned all them? get a grip all.

I agree with jiminski, owen, wacicha and the rest.

I mean If clapper asked me in a pm to take her turns monday night cause she is going away, so I take all her turns tuesday morning to catch her up, cause she is in like 100 games usually, lol, and then clapper returns tuesday night quicker than expected, how is this considered cheating and abuse by me or clapper? It's not and just ridiculous. Now if someone was abusing it and you could demonstrate a consistent pattern over and over again, well that may be different.



respects, blitz

[greenoaks]

So if it is written that teammates in sequential can take each others turn, for any reason, you would be ok with it? But you argue vehemently that not missing a turn gives the team an unfair advantage? I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing. I do that alot as well too, but usually I make a stronger case for what I am for. You are saying it is ok if disclosed, but not ok if not disclosed.

PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT: OWEN MAY TAKE MY TURNS IN ANY TEAM GAME I PLAY.

Now I guess that strategic advantage has dissolved?

if you are playing the same core group of players and everyone on both sides knows what is going on then no one can cry about it afterwards. it becomes a problem if the games created are open to the public who may not be aware of your 'house' account swap rules.

[wicked]

Not perplexed at all. It's just easier to write "24 hours" since that's the minimum time per casual turn. That's what's always been explained in the two years I've been here whenever this question is raised for clarification. If you guys are hung up on the 24 hour wording, then we'll change it. No worries.

[James Vazquez]

i think thats why its been left to the discreation of the mods to enforce the vauge rule. However there quite a few here who have a standing agreement to play each others turns and that is not what the site intended by implementing babysitting rule.

I personally dont wanna play whomever whenever.. Abuse is the issue here. Currently someone could cirrcumnavigate the foe list and play a game with someone who has already stated they chose not too. I'm sure there are a number of other abuses i cant think of that can occur. That being said the rule was not made to be abused. Whether you believe its abuse or not.

There are no House acct swap rules here. See what is happening people are taking a privilage of the site and abusing it. The babysitting rule is for legitimate cirrcumstances not to be bent to the will of the user.

Legitimate users have not been targeted EVER. Only the blatant abusers of the privilage.

[nagerous]

yo i need some serious answers so owen nothing to smart arse like unless its really funny
if i log in at say 8 am and i have approx 25 or so games to take turns in right
all of them would expire at about 7 pm
but here is the deal right this day i will be out from 830 am until well past midnight where i get home i will be absolutely screwed and the last thing i wanna do is go on cc. if me finding a baby sitter or 2 cause of games involved in etc to take my turns but they take them during the day not before the get close to expiring is this in violation of baby sitting rules not that there are any official rules...

Click image to enlarge.

but anyway what is your opinion on this?

You yourself admitted you Didnt Want to Log on and take your turns!!! Thats is clearly not being unable too. That was and is not the current criteria for babysitting. You cant handle the game load stop making more games than you can handle. The warning you got was in fact justified as you clearly chose to have someone take your turn. Not out of a need but conveince
More than likely not the first time this has happened.

Like most rules people will always find the loophole to exploit. This does not justify there actions. You and others in this thread have asked for a clarification and you may well get one.

However I dont think anyone in this site would like the wolves to guard the chickens.

It's not that he didn't want to take his turns, I'd have said he was unable to because of being drunk and tired. Especially with 50-60 games worth. The fact is he probably logged on CC briefly, to check mafia games, not to play risk and got reprimanded for it in this situation. Oh well, a rule is needed to deal with this anomaly, that way people will know if they are "breaking an unwritten rule" or not.

[owenshooter]

Legitimate users have not been targeted EVER. Only the blatant abusers of the privilage.

they are being targeted now!!! that is why there needs to be a clarification. i for one, do not want to be a cheat or be called a cheat for breaking some unwritten rule. in which, by breaking it, i receive no strategical advantage. i think twill has the bulk of the issue correct. what remains now is the "24 hour" unwritten rule.-0

[clapper011]

Legitimate users have not been targeted EVER. Only the blatant abusers of the privilage.

they are being targeted now!!! that is why there needs to be a clarification. i for one, do not want to be a cheat or be called a cheat for breaking some unwritten rule. in which, by breaking it, i receive no strategical advantage. i think twill has the bulk of the issue correct. what remains now is the "24 hour" unwritten rule.-0

[James Vazquez]

Legitimate users have not been targeted EVER. Only the blatant abusers of the privilage.

they are being targeted now!!! that is why there needs to be a clarification. i for one, do not want to be a cheat or be called a cheat for breaking some unwritten rule. in which, by breaking it, i receive no strategical advantage. i think twill has the bulk of the issue correct. what remains now is the "24 hour" unwritten rule.-0

name me one user who recieved a warning that wasnt abuse. If you read twill's post e did not disagree with the ruling at all.

[ctwong1]

I'm sorry, but real life does come into play. I sometimes have to travel out of town unexpectedly, and go somewhere I cannot get internet access. So let me announce this Publicly, if I am not around my friends like Owenshooter or jbrettlip can take my turns for me. I for one hate DEADBEATERS!!!! Intentionally or not. They ruin the game. It almost sounds like, (and forgive me if someone said this, but after the 4th page, I just skipped to the last page.) if I want to break the rules ahead of time, just announce it in game chat beforehand, so other players can drop out? I'm going to go drink more twelve more beers, so I can come back and make more sense of this. By the way, Happy Birthday Owen. HA

[owenshooter]

name me one user who recieved a warning that wasnt abuse. If you read twill's post e did not disagree with the ruling at all.

have you not read the thread? pretty much most of the team players that have weighed in on the situation would be considered cheats and could receive warnings, bans and or loss of premium for breaking the unwritten "24 hour" rule. so, it is about the 24 hour rule and an alleged gained advantaged... or am i wrong?-0

[ctwong1]

The only people who gain an advantage is the other team, because your teammate was unable to take his/her turn. There is no "I" in team, therefore it is a team effort to keep the game going, and not to take some mythical advantage. If Owen can't take a turn, because he actually has to go to work for once, then why should I get penalized as his teammate. There are a lot of team games where all happen to be online and you can have your turn back in a matter of hours. FREE OWEN!!!!! FREE OWEN!!!!! FREE OWEN!!!!! FREE OWEN!!!!! Don't oppress him!!!!!!

[James Vazquez]

well the 24hr rule isnt really at the heart of this it was an oversimplification. The issue is people letting others take turns when they full well could take their own. Noone wants to alter anyones ability to not miss a turn for rl issues. Thats why the babysitting privilage was put in place.

However to go beyond that initial spirit of the rule is making your own rules up. There are a few problems with people taking turns for others for no good reason. Some of which i have stated and others i'm sure i havent even thought about.

The reason most people havent gotten warnings about this before isnt that it was never enforced but they were not seen as abusing the privilage. Most people have used the privilage and the site has benefited as a result. The problem is when babysiting is not being used in the manner it is intended.

The warning isnt punishment it simply states that one should consider the stated actions as crossing a line. If they dont agree then they are free to seek a higher authroity or clarification of the ruling. Not ask a mod and edit facts to get a favorable response, then pit one mods interpretation of a less than complete set of facts against another mods decision. As a chat mod it has happened to me and i can tell you it pisses me off.

the 24hr limit was intended, i suspect, to spell out that if you CAN take your own turns you should. Noone is accusing anyone who babysits legitimately as cheaters. However some people have chosen to make their own definetion of what it means to babysit. Those are the issues being addressed or at least the ones that should be.

And if a clarification of the rule states clearly that team members cant take each others turns ,which is the way i have always interpreted it to be, then i'm sure the mods wont be going back and banning and reseting every player that ever did that. However if the majority of the teams turns in a game are taken by one player can we agree that is breaking the rule? Blatantly

[owenshooter]

the 24hr limit was intended, i suspect, to spell out that if you CAN take your own turns you should. Noone is accusing anyone who babysits legitimately as cheaters. However some people have chosen to make their own definetion of what it means to babysit. Those are the issues being addressed or at least the ones that should be.

the "24 hour rule" is unwritten, and is at the heart of the babysitting issue with doubles teams. many teams will have RL issues where one member needs to take another members turn to keep the game flow going and to prevent the team from missing. now, if i take my partners turn at 8am in the morning, while he is flying to a conference, and he so much as logs in to check his PM's or see how his turns went, before 24 hours has passed, by wicked's definition, we are cheats. i fully agree that this isn't broken now, unless this unwritten rule is written in stone, and we are all forced to adhere to it to avoid being labeled cheats. i think it is pretty easy to tell who is abusing the system and who is keeping within the spirit of the system, and i don't think those of us that are being labeled as cheats in this thread are in any way cheating. as blitz pointed out, he can name admins and mods that have engaged in this standard team practice, so they are cheats too? we are on the same page JV, just looking for solid and correct wording if this "unwritten rule" becomes written.-0

[hulmey]

Just saw this thread and wanted to add my weight to the "discussion". I was one of the other players that was warned by wicked for babysitting lovo's account.

Basically, me and lovo signed up to play in a freestlye tournament. We both missed some turns in the game due to life issues. Now dont forget lovo is in australia and im in europe , so the time difference does effect matters!

Well, lovo asked me to babysit his account coz he was going to a concert and would be unavaiable. Of course as you all know missing 1 or 2s of go's in a freestlye game means you have very little chance in winning!! So, i took his go's...

How the hell was i meant to know he was on CC for half an hour, on that particular day? Why did i get warning? Am i lovo, do i know what he was doing!

Now ladies and gentleman, we are talking about 2 games, thats all!! I think i took 3 or 4 turns!! Havent the mods got anything better to do. Are these guys that bored or do they like playing super nerd cop

[wicked]

Now ladies and gentleman, we are talking about 2 games, thats all!! I think i took 3 or 4 turns!!

Thank you for proving my point. In a period of less than a day, when you knew he wouldn't be gone for more than a day, you took 3-4 of his turns in two casual games where he *may* have only missed one turn maximum. One round is a minimum of 24 hours; why did you feel compelled to take 3-4 turns when two would've sufficed? Or are you going to change your story back again to your initial statement?

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

Just saw this thread and wanted to add my weight to the "discussion". I was one of the other players that was warned by wicked for babysitting lovo's account.

Basically, me and lovo signed up to play in a freestlye tournament. We both missed some turns in the game due to life issues. Now dont forget lovo is in australia and im in europe , so the time difference does effect matters!

Well, lovo asked me to babysit his account coz he was going to a concert and would be unavaiable. Of course as you all know missing 1 or 2s of go's in a freestlye game means you have very little chance in winning!! So, i took his go's...

How the hell was i meant to know he was on CC for half an hour, on that particular day? Why did i get warning? Am i lovo, do i know what he was doing!

Now ladies and gentleman, we are talking about 2 games, thats all!! I think i took 3 or 4 turns!! Havent the mods got anything better to do. Are these guys that bored or do they like playing super nerd cop

dont start games before concerts. you knew ahead of time of the time difference. why all of a sudden these things became issues? I dont except excuses. we all are 100% sure what your were trying to pull. also, welcome to my ignore list for abusing the system.