[Official] Breaking Bad Mafia 4/18 Blue. Town&DEA+rug win

[MoB Deadly]

[rishaed]

Ok, quick thoughts. Rugbirn was being at least a bit logical and then has returned to gibberish (as MoB put it)... the only reason worth keeping him around today, is the fact that he is a potential doc (if he is telling the truth...). I agree that Jonty's vote is a bit odd considering, but I can partially understand it considering what Rugbirn has said today. Overall I think that Greg is telling the truth, but if I had to lynch I would give one more day to rugbirn, and lynch greg. This is the conclusion I came to today. LAL ik, but we've already lost our main doc.

[rishaed]

Excuse the double, but vote Gregwolf. Im putting my money where my mouth is.

[betiko]

Ok, quick thoughts. Rugbirn was being at least a bit logical and then has returned to gibberish (as MoB put it)... the only reason worth keeping him around today, is the fact that he is a potential doc (if he is telling the truth...). I agree that Jonty's vote is a bit odd considering, but I can partially understand it considering what Rugbirn has said today. Overall I think that Greg is telling the truth, but if I had to lynch I would give one more day to rugbirn, and lynch greg. This is the conclusion I came to today. LAL ik, but we've already lost our main doc.

Well my problem with jonty is that he is not willing to lynch because of all the strange stuff rug said, he is not willing to lynch rug because he is potentially lying. He is willing to lynch him because he is a doc third party in a game of 5 factions including 2 evil. His reasoning makes absolutely no sense. No one here wants to dig deeper into it nor ask him why did he get that PR in the middle of day 1 out of the blue. I might need to recheck his posts but I think it was sudden and that he didn t do it since the start.

[TheForgivenOne]

My interpretation of Strike's comment is that the poisoning of XStor (in the scene) was flavor as opposed to anything other than a NK. However, we still do NOT know who killed XStor, but we do NOT have a poisoner N+1.

@MoB - My feelings on TFO is not just from the scene details, but N1 action- him being a watcher of XStor, AND explaining why he choose to watch XStor when nobody asked that question. Just alot of things that do not sit right with me concerning his actions.

This is the problem I have had with you all game going back to the VT and Doc being able to communicate, which is your interpretation of things. You continually speak as if something is fact when you obviously have no clue or understanding of how things work.

IB, I don't know what you are talking about! I said it was my interpretation of what Strike said - NOT FACT. And I DO know for fact that unless I was role-blocked N1 (which would be rather strange with 16 players) that there is NO poisoner based on my action N1 and Strike's confirmation. You do NOT have to believe this FACT if you want to ignore it.

You also have to notice that basically Nobody is believing your case on me. At this point, you have been flogging a dead horse over and over and over. You are basically basing your case on the fact that I visited him N1, and that I MUST have been there to kill him. You have 0 proof at all that I did so, only that you were there to Doc him and he didn't die, yet you have continued on this case for all of D3.

At some point you have to realize your case on me isn't there, at all. Your case is dealing with a TON of "Could have's". "The scene could have been referring to TFO".

And seriously? You think Strike Wolf, a veteran Mod (to my knowledge), is basically going to post me in a scene because I was sick for parts of D2? Do you REALLY think he would post something as game-breaking as that, especially in an Official game ? I'm sorry, but your case on me, is basically full of shit.

For the first part, you are basically hoping SW is going to give clues as to who is Mafia in his scenes. As soon as he says he isn't going to confirm anyone in a scene, you turn your case on me in a different light.

[virus90]

who gave rugbirn the post restriction to have to double post or is he just messing his posts up all the time?
fastposted

[Metsfanmax]

I don't believe strike would have given that information away in the scene, though I give Rugbirn points for the clever interpretation.

Ok, quick thoughts. Rugbirn was being at least a bit logical and then has returned to gibberish (as MoB put it)... the only reason worth keeping him around today, is the fact that he is a potential doc (if he is telling the truth...). I agree that Jonty's vote is a bit odd considering, but I can partially understand it considering what Rugbirn has said today. Overall I think that Greg is telling the truth, but if I had to lynch I would give one more day to rugbirn, and lynch greg. This is the conclusion I came to today. LAL ik, but we've already lost our main doc.

But Rugbirn is not actually useful to town as a doc. If we go with the strategy that everyone has been talking about -- Rug protects MoB and MoB busses Rug -- then neither of them die, and mafia just go after another member of the town -- and our bus driver is useless.

[Rodion]

Betiko, I checked Jonty's posts. He mentioned his PR may not necessarily be about meth as long as he is delirious. It kind of checks out with his initial posts, as if he had a complicated PR and was being original until he got tired and standardized his delirium PR into mentioning meth every post.

Ok, quick thoughts. Rugbirn was being at least a bit logical and then has returned to gibberish (as MoB put it)... the only reason worth keeping him around today, is the fact that he is a potential doc (if he is telling the truth...). I agree that Jonty's vote is a bit odd considering, but I can partially understand it considering what Rugbirn has said today. Overall I think that Greg is telling the truth, but if I had to lynch I would give one more day to rugbirn, and lynch greg. This is the conclusion I came to today. LAL ik, but we've already lost our main doc.

Excuse the double, but vote Gregwolf. Im putting my money where my mouth is.

You think he's telling the truth and will vote him anyway?

I DEFINITELY want an in-depth explanation on that.

[rishaed]

Betiko, I checked Jonty's posts. He mentioned his PR may not necessarily be about meth as long as he is delirious. It kind of checks out with his initial posts, as if he had a complicated PR and was being original until he got tired and standardized his delirium PR into mentioning meth every post.

Ok, quick thoughts. Rugbirn was being at least a bit logical and then has returned to gibberish (as MoB put it)... the only reason worth keeping him around today, is the fact that he is a potential doc (if he is telling the truth...). I agree that Jonty's vote is a bit odd considering, but I can partially understand it considering what Rugbirn has said today. Overall I think that Greg is telling the truth, but if I had to lynch I would give one more day to rugbirn, and lynch greg. This is the conclusion I came to today. LAL ik, but we've already lost our main doc.

Excuse the double, but vote Gregwolf. Im putting my money where my mouth is.

You think he's telling the truth and will vote him anyway?

I DEFINITELY want an in-depth explanation on that.

Its in the very same sentence you highlighted. Apparently its highly looked down upon to no-lynch on a day here (apart from when mislynching can cost the game), and I could choose not to vote, but I have chosen not to. I don't feel that another claim today will help either. The vote is just standing behind my words in the previous post. In other words I consider no-lynching to be the semi-best option here.

[betiko]

if you do the math and you're pretty sure that greg is telling the truth, well you'd rather go for a no lynch.

[MoB Deadly]

I see the votes on jonty, I found him scummy a bit originally that is why I posted that his PR may be made up for him so he could fake claim....

But again I don't think we can afford another claim today. I think it mostly should be jonty and gregwolf tomorrow up for primary candidates unless we have a real lead.

[betiko]

I see the votes on jonty, I found him scummy a bit originally that is why I posted that his PR may be made up for him so he could fake claim....

But again I don't think we can afford another claim today. I think it mostly should be jonty and gregwolf tomorrow up for primary candidates unless we have a real lead.

or jonty can just come up with reasonable argumentations without needing to claim...

[jonty125]

Maybe I methed out my references once or twice. I'm just not comfortable with Rug, I'm about 85% sure he's truthing with his claim, it has occurred to me the mod could of given an elaborate fakeclaim. He's 3rd party, we can't trust anything he says. I'm still not sure a 2nd doc, would of made it until an Offical game, but with the amount of deaths per night it appears it could be possible.

[MoB Deadly]

My order of suspicion right now
Gregwolf > jonty > Rug

[Iron Butterfly]

Maybe I methed out my references once or twice. I'm just not comfortable with Rug, I'm about 85% sure he's truthing with his claim, it has occurred to me the mod could of given an elaborate fakeclaim. He's 3rd party, we can't trust anything he says. I'm still not sure a 2nd doc, would of made it until an Offical game, but with the amount of deaths per night it appears it could be possible.

I agree. BUT can someone explain to me that if we have fake claims why is it MOB wont tell us his name? Why has no one pressured him to do so? His claim is that he is setting a trap or waiting to trip up someone. With 11 players we could possibly be looking at 8 to 7 players still standing by morning.

[rishaed]

Since I was asked about it in PM and I don't really have a problem announcing it, mafia do have fake claims.

Edit: His name is Mob Deadly

Ok, I actually agree with IB here... had to look for the post by SW on this. I'm gonna bold the fact that MoB knows directly from PM from SW that Scum have fakeclaims. And as far as I have been here its always been true that when you claim, you full claim (name, role, everything). Thus MoB's reasoning of catching people out in a lie on a claim is useless...... MoB why are you so hesitant about telling your name?
And yes, Betiko No Lynching as I said above would be the semi-best option IMO, but do I think its going to happen? No. Therefor I'm going with Plan B so to speak. Will it make people suspicious of me, sure. But I don't have anything to hide, so I don't really care at this point.

[betiko]

i really don't mind if mob nameclaims or not... I understand both points of views. there is a very remote chance that it could help town, but I don't know... let's say mob is gomez for example, therefore DEA, maybe he's just hidding this info not to admit he is not 100% town... which would be fine, but still..
Or let's say that someone comes up with a very credible claim, lots of evidence for night actions and claims the same thing as mob... I don't know, just seems kind of double edged... mafia will know not to use anything other than their fakeclaim either way I guess... yeah I'm in favour of mob nameclaiming too actually.

[MoB Deadly]

Things happen outside the "plan" all the time.
Perfect example would be Gregwolf. Suppose for a minute Combo is a fake claim. Almost everyone here has said that claim is pretty weak and is a pretty plausible fake claim.
Makes sense he claims VT.
-----
What if suppose.... Someone has information that jonty went somewhere on N1.
That is brought into evidence tomorrow and theres a case on jonty
Suppose HE got Combo as a fake claim... Now that doesn't sound very convincing now does it??
That means it may be in jonty's best interest to pick a more relevant character than jonty (not using the mod-provided fake claim)
Now he may claim the same character as me, and I can set up a stand-off between me and him.

TL;DR. You shouldn't reveal things in mafia unless it is a need to know basis. ESpecially bus driver.
The more information I can keep to myself the better.

We have already seen multiple Mafia Factions and Multiple Town Factions
We don't even know what their win conditions are, I have no clue if anyone wants me dead. I prefer to keep things hush until it needs to be revealed.

I don't see the problem. I am not a top suspect to be mafia right now, so just give me the benefit of the doubt until there is a reason for me to claim. I partially claimed to help De-Fog last nights actions, and to prove Rugbirn wrong. I think my intentions/alignment is obvious at this point today. If tomorrow the consensus is for me to claim, then I will do it.

[MoB Deadly]

Bottom line is, there is nothing for town to gain for me to name claim, unless you have a special win condition. The only person that would benefit from the name claim would be enemies of town, and anyone else with an alternate win condition.

Since my role reveal was VOLUNTEERED, and not pressured, I don't see any reason why I should have to reveal if I don't want to.

At the end of the day, this debate is not worth anything and is just distractive. If you guys will lose sleep over it, then I will name clam no problem. I just don't see your guys' point of view on why I should name claim.

[Metsfanmax]

i really don't mind if mob nameclaims or not... I understand both points of views. there is a very remote chance that it could help town, but I don't know... let's say mob is gomez for example, therefore DEA, maybe he's just hidding this info not to admit he is not 100% town... which would be fine, but still..

Then he'd have lied, and LAL would still apply.

Bottom line is, there is nothing for town to gain for me to name claim, unless you have a special win condition. The only person that would benefit from the name claim would be enemies of town, and anyone else with an alternate win condition.

If you're lying about being town, then you would presumably be avoiding a name claim so that you don't risk getting caught in a fake claim.

[MoB Deadly]

Bottom line is, there is nothing for town to gain for me to name claim, unless you have a special win condition. The only person that would benefit from the name claim would be enemies of town, and anyone else with an alternate win condition.

If you're lying about being town, then you would presumably be avoiding a name claim so that you don't risk getting caught in a fake claim.

Then why would I volunteer the information to defog last night's activity? My actions to prove Rugbirn was lying should be enough in my eyes to prove my town alignment for the rest of today at the very least.

From this post forward if Betiko or Mets insists that I name claim I will stop debating and just name claim all the way.

[Rugbirn]

MoB, you keep saying Rug lied "My actions to prove Rugbirn was lying...", which is itsself a lie. The more you keep repeating it, the more you are lying. I take offense to you saying it, and repeating it, because I have never lied in this game....period !!!

[TheForgivenOne]

MoB, you keep saying Rug lied "My actions to prove Rugbirn was lying...", which is itsself a lie. The more you keep repeating it, the more you are lying. I take offense to you saying it, and repeating it, because I have never lied in this game....period !!!

What he is referring to is that you only mentioned you were a "Doc". He had to reveal himself to prove that you weren't a doc.

[Rugbirn]

TFO, you are right. I initially only mentioned my Doc protection ability for town. This is NOT a lie. Of course, I tried to hide (mislead, whatever word you want here) my other night action frankly because I felt it would not help my case at the time - and I think everyone can relate to that. My point is the more someone lies about something, eventually people believe it as truth. I'm just pointing it out. No offense MoB, we need to be best friends !

[betiko]

TFO, you are right. I initially only mentioned my Doc protection ability for town. This is NOT a lie. Of course, I tried to hide (mislead, whatever word you want here) my other night action frankly because I felt it would not help my case at the time - and I think everyone can relate to that. My point is the more someone lies about something, eventually people believe it as truth. I'm just pointing it out. No offense MoB, we need to be best friends !

Isn t it what you re doing just now? Stop being ridiculous, you ve defined yourself as being town aligned several times before admitting you are in fact third party.