Sweeney Todd Mafia ~ Town Wins. Ready to be Archived

[naxus]

Jonty being Jonty is a excuse? Scummaring you just let fly by from a very experienced player? Victor Being Victor?

Third party can be a sacrifice, but can also be useful. Lucy wasn't counterclaimed so I'm pretty sure your not mafia but Third party/town. Either way you can be helpful or be hung instead of someone.

Also shaggy dan has been flip flopping and all over the place.

IF you really want me to claim then I will but Id really rather not

[safariguy5]

Jonty being Jonty is a excuse? Scummaring you just let fly by from a very experienced player? Victor Being Victor?

Third party can be a sacrifice, but can also be useful. Lucy wasn't counterclaimed so I'm pretty sure your not mafia but Third party/town. Either way you can be helpful or be hung instead of someone.

Also shaggy dan has been flip flopping and all over the place.

IF you really want me to claim then I will but Id really rather not

Why wouldn't you? It's the appropriate time to.

[naxus]

Im Anthony, Town Lover

[naxus]

Im Anthony HOPE, Town Lover

DONT KILL ME

[DoomYoshi]

unvote. SInce nobody defended you, you have the bad luck of having an inactive as a lover.


The next legitimate lead is edoc. Anyone want to take a stab at it? (pardon the pun)

[edocsil]

unvote. SInce nobody defended you, you have the bad luck of having an inactive as a lover.


The next legitimate lead is edoc. Anyone want to take a stab at it? (pardon the pun)

There isn't a case on me. I am unwilling to spam flavor spec when I know nothing of it, and the primary aspect of the case is my low post count. It always happens D1 to people who don't know the flavor well, as that is what at least 60% of the convo is about.

I have some thoughts as two who would make a better target, I would look to those who were the freest to join the wagons. I have other commitments to night and only have time for this brief post, apologizes.

[Commander9]

Im Anthony, Town Lover

I am confirming this - doctor, please protect him (Don't worry about me).

[ShaggyDan]

ShaggyDan Case

Jokevotes, Flavor specs while pursuing both safari and yoshi, then jumps on my ass because of the deadline which is no reason. Vote ShaggyDan

I didn't pursue Yoshi at all, I've basically believed his claim the whole way (if not as pro-town, as 3rd party survivor which I think doesn't hurt us atm). As for safari he loosely made a claim which I originally thought to be anti-town, but after more flavour spec I believed it to be

How is deadline not a reason? I said I agree with Yoshi's case on you, and thought you were a good person to chase up with a deadline 3 days away. My main lead in Safari fell down and I hadn't had time to make a case, so I threw my vote behind a case that made sense and was made by a claim I believe to be alligned with town at best, and a neutral third party at worst.

Please explain how any of this makes me scummy? It seems you had more of a case on everyone else you accused instead of me, so why the vote on me?

It was a joke vote wagon that ended up revealing some information. Slighty scummy but no real harm done. Had my reasons

I'd disagree, I would think a roleclaim so early on with very little information by an investigative role is pretty damaging overall.

Since then your claim and subsequent confirmation put you in the clear, but at the time it was the best case to pursue IMO.

Looks like the doctor is going to be busy tonight with a pair of lovers and a possible investigative role all outed .

Back to the action at hand; this close to a deadline is it best to make another case on someone with the few days left? Or do we the risk of rushing ahead without enough information. If so anyone have any leads? Personally nothing is popping out at me except maybe lynching an inactive due to having no other big options. I'm very much open to other cases. Thoughts, opinions?

Unvote Nax with such a strong claim and subsequent confirmation by commander I find it hard to not believe.

[safariguy5]

ShaggyDan Case

Jokevotes, Flavor specs while pursuing both safari and yoshi, then jumps on my ass because of the deadline which is no reason. Vote ShaggyDan

I didn't pursue Yoshi at all, I've basically believed his claim the whole way (if not as pro-town, as 3rd party survivor which I think doesn't hurt us atm). As for safari he loosely made a claim which I originally thought to be anti-town, but after more flavour spec I believed it to be

How is deadline not a reason? I said I agree with Yoshi's case on you, and thought you were a good person to chase up with a deadline 3 days away. My main lead in Safari fell down and I hadn't had time to make a case, so I threw my vote behind a case that made sense and was made by a claim I believe to be alligned with town at best, and a neutral third party at worst.

Please explain how any of this makes me scummy? It seems you had more of a case on everyone else you accused instead of me, so why the vote on me?

It was a joke vote wagon that ended up revealing some information. Slighty scummy but no real harm done. Had my reasons

I'd disagree, I would think a roleclaim so early on with very little information by an investigative role is pretty damaging overall.

Since then your claim and subsequent confirmation put you in the clear, but at the time it was the best case to pursue IMO.

Looks like the doctor is going to be busy tonight with a pair of lovers and a possible investigative role all outed .

Back to the action at hand; this close to a deadline is it best to make another case on someone with the few days left? Or do we the risk of rushing ahead without enough information. If so anyone have any leads? Personally nothing is popping out at me except maybe lynching an inactive due to having no other big options. I'm very much open to other cases. Thoughts, opinions?

Unvote Nax with such a strong claim and subsequent confirmation by commander I find it hard to not believe.

I think things will be ok for at least a night. Certainly, the doc should protect one of the lovers. I'll be ok because Yoshi will be watching me. If Commander says he's ok, then it may be a possible immunity to NK's (not that far fetched). The only exposed person so far is DoomYoshi, but I sort of think that given what happened when Sweeney killed Lucy in the movie, it might be a loss condition or something.

[TheSaxlad]

unvote

Theres no real case to be formulated at the moment. Noone has done anything scummy really. The case on Shaggydan is weak although a case. I think Edoc needs to be looked into more. Maybe a job for the cop tonight? Anyway what leads do we actually have?

[DoomYoshi]

The case against you edoc is the statements that you are making are truly far too cautious. You have not stuck your neck out at all flavour speculating or otherwise.

[jonty125]

vote edoc for not knowing me

unvote vote Saxlad to celebrate Whac-a-Mod IV.

EBWOP

May not be around for about 48 hours. So I aren't scummaring or anything along them lines.

This game will be fairly straightforward with pretty simple roles (there will be a few VTs)

Nobody has considered that someone or some people could be an 'extra' and just be a plain VT

Hm. As far as game set-up is concerned, I'm inclined to believe Sweeney Todd is not, in fact, town. Given DoomYoshi's claim and the role's apparent association with Todd, I wouldn't be surprised if he's mafia, trying to play it off like he's town. I don't think we should readily believe his alignment claim. My vote stays for now.

-Sully

I agree with this bit and think he would be mafia (11 to small for a 3rd party I think)

I do believe Yoshi's claim and I am don't have a clue on the film I wouldn't know if Lucy was associated with Todd or anything like that

Well it appears jokevoting is over unvote

If you count my vote(which squirell missed, then dooms is at L-1)

He might as well claim, that or someone unvote to avoid accidental hammer

Why didn't you unvote naxus???

vote naxus

Two joke votes, Agrees with victor, and then votes hopping on the wagon. Unvotes me to avoid suspicions.
Has done nothing the whole game and hopes on a deadline rushed wagon with no reason.

1. What's wrong with having two joke votes?
2. I did not unvote you to avoid suspicion I unvoted because you were at L-1 and didn't want a potential town power role lynched on D1.
3. I may have not done much as I have no expirence on the setting and are fairly new to CC Mafia but I have not been hindering the town.
4. I only had the 3rd vote (so there wasn't really much of a BW) and I did contribute to the case against you

Once again you just agree but actually add something

[Mr. Squirrel]

Vote Count

Jonty (1) - edocsil
safariguy (2) - vio, haggis,
doomyoshi (2) - victor, commander9,
shaggy (1) - naxus
naxus (1) - safariguy

6 to lynch
deadline friday

[edocsil]

Alright, went back and read through everything several times. It doesn't take long, it would be a good idea for some of the others to do that as well.

So, here is what I don't get, why the hell haven't we forced Safari to claim? He was a way better target the Naxus. Now he has been on both wagons, forced doom to claim and contributed mostly flavor spec, large parts of which stick out as misdirection. Namely the 2 mafia 9 town bit. I say bullshit, the only reason to assume that is to be if you KNOW there is an SK, which I assume for the moment him to be if he isn't scum trying to misdirect the town. If there is no SK there are 3 scum guarantied, 2 is too little unless we have almost all vanillas (doesn't look like it) and 4, when the town better then have a pair of two elite bodyguards.

In that vein, Unvote Vote Safari.

While he has hinted at town power, that means nothing. Anyone can do that, the scum know who the good guys are just as readily as the town.

[Victor Sullivan]

Eh, I suppose it's the best plan so far. Wasn't fond of the sudden naxus lynch attempt. *hops on* vote safariguy5

-Sully

[safariguy5]

vote edoc for not knowing me

unvote vote Saxlad to celebrate Whac-a-Mod IV.

EBWOP

May not be around for about 48 hours. So I aren't scummaring or anything along them lines.

This game will be fairly straightforward with pretty simple roles (there will be a few VTs)

Nobody has considered that someone or some people could be an 'extra' and just be a plain VT

Hm. As far as game set-up is concerned, I'm inclined to believe Sweeney Todd is not, in fact, town. Given DoomYoshi's claim and the role's apparent association with Todd, I wouldn't be surprised if he's mafia, trying to play it off like he's town. I don't think we should readily believe his alignment claim. My vote stays for now.

-Sully

I agree with this bit and think he would be mafia (11 to small for a 3rd party I think)

I do believe Yoshi's claim and I am don't have a clue on the film I wouldn't know if Lucy was associated with Todd or anything like that

Well it appears jokevoting is over unvote

If you count my vote(which squirell missed, then dooms is at L-1)

He might as well claim, that or someone unvote to avoid accidental hammer

Why didn't you unvote naxus???

vote naxus

Two joke votes, Agrees with victor, and then votes hopping on the wagon. Unvotes me to avoid suspicions.
Has done nothing the whole game and hopes on a deadline rushed wagon with no reason.

1. What's wrong with having two joke votes?
2. I did not unvote you to avoid suspicion I unvoted because you were at L-1 and didn't want a potential town power role lynched on D1.
3. I may have not done much as I have no expirence on the setting and are fairly new to CC Mafia but I have not been hindering the town.
4. I only had the 3rd vote (so there wasn't really much of a BW) and I did contribute to the case against you

Once again you just agree but actually add something

3rd vote on a 6 man to lynch bandwagon is pretty much bandwagonning. It might be excused in a large game, but 3rd votes and later this game without good reasoning is bandwagonning.

And edoc, you want to know why I've been so sure about the setup? It's because I'm Judge Turpin, Town Hated Investigator. I can investigate someone at night, but if they turn up innocent, I lose my investigative powers. That's why I bought the watcher claim (although was unsure of alignment at the time) and also why I'm dead certain Sweeney Todd is anti town. Yoshi was the one who picked up on it first.

Did you see the movie? Todd kills his wife, finds out Lovett lied to him, throws Lovett in the oven, cries over his wife's body, and then Toby kills Todd. Todd never recognized Lucy until after she was dead.

If he knew that it was his wife, he wouldn't have killed her. That makes him seem like a Vig, since if the vig knows someone is town, they won't kill them. An SK would feel no remorse. The ideal ending is one in which he realizes it who Lucy is, and doesn't kill her. They then go on to have a happy life. Since this benefits Todd and Lucy, and nobody else, if Lucy is Town then Todd could be town as well.

Saying "since I am Turpin (or Beadle, or whoever you are) Todd can't be town makes sense. Saying "Lucy is town, so Todd can't be" doesn't make sense. You are using faulty logic.

However, I am not entirely sure that I believe you are one of those characters now. It has occured to me that this has become a question of your word against mine. You say that you are town. I say that I am town. If you don't believe me, why should anyone believe you?

And then following it with

Based on his original flavor speculation post and the hints about who he might be, I am not sure I want saf to claim.

gave you enough evidence that I was making a softclaim that hopefully would have gone unnoticed by a not very observant Todd. All this claiming has narrowed down the likely targets for scum (assuming everyone is being truthful, and given the subject, fakeclaims are probably not very strong) and the fact that you jumped out and suddenly demand me to claim as the main reason for voting me makes it look like you're nervous that you might be outed.

unvote vote edocsil

[edocsil]

I was nearly certain that is who you would claim. Sorry Saf but I did need to force you. Perhaps the unobservant wouldn't have noticed it, but you were rubbing that nose in our face. Hence why didn't press earlier. You however made a few sins since then and we needed to be certain. It was fairly obvious that you were likely town power, but you also were not going to be the target of the doc due to your actions during the day.

It is just as likely (perhaps more, the scum can group think at nights) that the doc wouldn't have picked up on it. I assume you think am scum because you voted for me, so riddle me this, do you think that if I were Todd or one of his compatriots I would have outed you or just killed you during the night while everyone else was busy protecting the Lovers and the watcher?

[safariguy5]

I was nearly certain that is who you would claim. Sorry Saf but I did need to force you. Perhaps the unobservant wouldn't have noticed it, but you were rubbing that nose in our face. Hence why didn't press earlier. You however made a few sins since then and we needed to be certain. It was fairly obvious that you were likely town power, but you also were not going to be the target of the doc due to your actions during the day.

It is just as likely (perhaps more, the scum can group think at nights) that the doc wouldn't have picked up on it. I assume you think am scum because you voted for me, so riddle me this, do you think that if I were Todd or one of his compatriots I would have outed you or just killed you during the night while everyone else was busy protecting the Lovers and the watcher?

That's why I specifically asked Lucy to watch me tonight so that if I die, she would know who to lynch tomorrow. So yes, at this point, assuming DoomYoshi is not lying about being the watcher, then I'm fairly confident I won't be killed tonight. And if I guess wrong and accidentally find an innocent person, just clear them tomorrow and I become a VT, making my life expendable for the greater good of town. So yeah, basically Todd's best chance of getting rid of me without possibly outing himself is a lynch today. Which is what you're pushing for.

[edocsil]

I was nearly certain that is who you would claim. Sorry Saf but I did need to force you. Perhaps the unobservant wouldn't have noticed it, but you were rubbing that nose in our face. Hence why didn't press earlier. You however made a few sins since then and we needed to be certain. It was fairly obvious that you were likely town power, but you also were not going to be the target of the doc due to your actions during the day.

It is just as likely (perhaps more, the scum can group think at nights) that the doc wouldn't have picked up on it. I assume you think am scum because you voted for me, so riddle me this, do you think that if I were Todd or one of his compatriots I would have outed you or just killed you during the night while everyone else was busy protecting the Lovers and the watcher?

That's why I specifically asked Lucy to watch me tonight so that if I die, she would know who to lynch tomorrow. So yes, at this point, assuming DoomYoshi is not lying about being the watcher, then I'm fairly confident I won't be killed tonight. And if I guess wrong and accidentally find an innocent person, just clear them tomorrow and I become a VT, making my life expendable for the greater good of town. So yeah, basically Todd's best chance of getting rid of me without possibly outing himself is a lynch today. Which is what you're pushing for.

Was* Unvote

[ShaggyDan]

Wow, reminds me of firefly mafia. Except we have 4 out of 11 claiming instead of 3 out of 16. With 2 investigative roles, plus lovers outed it's all uphill from here.

I mostly believe all the claims thus-far, I assumed all these roles would be in the game and all flavour fits. I believe there is a very, very slim chance that Turpin is actually mafia but I will admit this is a very unlikely scenario if Todd gets a kill.

We have a deadline in 2 days. Personally I think it's a bad idead to waste a D1 lynch, but I'm wary because any random lynch we start up now will not have any chance to stop regardless of what they claim. We have the potential to lose a strong town role (though also it was said there are a few VT's here so we may not lose much). With the amount of info around on some players any kind of lynch will be some-what random.

I'm torn between RLing and NLing, if we RL I approve of lynching someone who's being quiet and not contributing much or possibly Edoc for making the cop claim (he may only be playing it off that he didn't realise before and wanted to be sure?), I don't think there's much of a case on him but it's one of the better leads we have at the moment. Though in this situation I could live with a NL to get verification off some of the claims. If we have to eventually RL then I guess one of the lovers would lead it as they've verified each other?

Thoughts guys?

[naxus]

Wow, reminds me of firefly mafia. Except we have 4 out of 11 claiming instead of 3 out of 16. With 2 investigative roles, plus lovers outed it's all uphill from here.

I mostly believe all the claims thus-far, I assumed all these roles would be in the game and all flavour fits. I believe there is a very, very slim chance that Turpin is actually mafia but I will admit this is a very unlikely scenario if Todd gets a kill.

We have a deadline in 2 days. Personally I think it's a bad idead to waste a D1 lynch, but I'm wary because any random lynch we start up now will not have any chance to stop regardless of what they claim. We have the potential to lose a strong town role (though also it was said there are a few VT's here so we may not lose much). With the amount of info around on some players any kind of lynch will be some-what random.

I'm torn between RLing and NLing, if we RL I approve of lynching someone who's being quiet and not contributing much or possibly Edoc for making the cop claim (he may only be playing it off that he didn't realise before and wanted to be sure?), I don't think there's much of a case on him but it's one of the better leads we have at the moment. Though in this situation I could live with a NL to get verification off some of the claims. If we have to eventually RL then I guess one of the lovers would lead it as they've verified each other?

Thoughts guys?

I would say we pressure Edoc or if we want to RL kill Jonty(mostly a bad vibe) or we could ask for a exstension and make cases off of that

[safariguy5]

If we're going to go with a less active lynch, may I suggest Vio or Haggis who have been almost nonexistent from this game?

unvote vote Haggis

[Mr. Squirrel]

If we're going to go with a less active lynch, may I suggest Vio or Haggis who have been almost nonexistent from this game?

unvote vote Haggis

I'm prodding vio. Haggis posted yesterday and said he would catch up

[Victor Sullivan]

I thought Todd would be anti-town. So, what of Lucy and her association with him? Doesn't it seem reasonable that DoomYoshi would be at least not town?
vote DoomYoshi

-Sully

[ShaggyDan]

I thought Todd would be anti-town. So, what of Lucy and her association with him? Doesn't it seem reasonable that DoomYoshi would be at least not town?
vote DoomYoshi

-Sully

The most likely assosciate of Todd is Mrs Lovett. He killed and then together they worked on turning the bodies into pies. I think we can safely assume these 2 are the mafia-team (if there is a team and Todd isn't working alone). The only way Lucy would fit into this team is if there are 3 mafia (which I don't think is true, I imagine the set up is 2 maf + 1 third party + 8 town).

Also, Todd never knew of Lucy's identity until after he killed her (as far as events in the movie go). Throughout the movie she's basically insane so I don't think she knows who he is either. I definitely think at worst that Lucy is a 3rd party role (but a non-malicious role as she never hurts anyone in the film), and most likely just a survivor if not town. I think it's a role worth keeping around if she's a watcher even if she is third party.

Though out of all the claims so far it would be the one I would be willing to follow a lynch on most if we decide to go with someone already claimed. Better a possible third party than a town cop or lovers.