Conquer Club

oVo wrote:

notyou2 wrote:Jesus loves bigots.

The divine sense of humor knows no bounds.

And dead children! Is the Sky Man the worst offender of joking too soon?

BigBallinStalin wrote:the worst offender of joking too soon?

Are you old enough for dead baby jokes and if so, did you laugh?

I thought progressives supported forcing business owners to serve customers they disagree with. Why isn't this gay person being forced to cut the hair of someone he disagrees with?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.1027072

Night Strike wrote:I thought progressives supported forcing business owners to serve customers they disagree with.

Do you think that it is possible for someone to disagree with another person's skin color or sexual preferences? I don't. So no, that's not what progressives think.

Metsfanmax wrote:

Night Strike wrote:I thought progressives supported forcing business owners to serve customers they disagree with.

Do you think that it is possible for someone to disagree with another person's skin color or sexual preferences?

Skin color, no. Actions from someone's sexual preferences, yes.

Besides, this article specifically states that the stylist refuses to cut the governor's hair because the governor doesn't support same-sex marriage. What's the difference between that and refusing to sell a cake to a same-sex couple getting married?

Night Strike wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:

Night Strike wrote:I thought progressives supported forcing business owners to serve customers they disagree with.

Do you think that it is possible for someone to disagree with another person's skin color or sexual preferences?

Skin color, no. Actions from someone's sexual preferences, yes.

What does it mean for an action to come from someone's sexual preferences? I am sexually attracted to women, but could get married to a man if I felt like it.

Night Strike wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:

Night Strike wrote:I thought progressives supported forcing business owners to serve customers they disagree with.

Do you think that it is possible for someone to disagree with another person's skin color or sexual preferences?

Skin color, no. Actions from someone's sexual preferences, yes.

Besides, this article specifically states that the stylist refuses to cut the governor's hair because the governor doesn't support same-sex marriage. What's the difference between that and refusing to sell a cake to a same-sex couple getting married?

Granting political recognition of same-sex marriage is in accord with Equality before the Law (i.e. the Rule of Law). But when it comes to the State, I opt for political equality.

Refusing to provide service to someone purely on the grounds of skin color, sexual preference, and such is not related to the rule of law. You don't have to sell anything to anyone; that's within your own realm of autonomy.

So, the difference is between supporting the Rule of Law and supporting people's freedom to sell whatever to whoever for whatever reasons.

Night Strike wrote:I thought progressives supported forcing business owners to serve customers they disagree with. Why isn't this gay person being forced to cut the hair of someone he disagrees with?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.1027072

OH THAT'S RICH!!!

Phatscotty wrote:

Night Strike wrote:I thought progressives supported forcing business owners to serve customers they disagree with. Why isn't this gay person being forced to cut the hair of someone he disagrees with?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.1027072

OH THAT'S RICH!!!

--Andy

Quick answer - the governor gets to CHOOSE whether or not to support same-sex marriage. The gay couple don't get to CHOOSE whether they are attracted to members of the same sex.

People 'choose' to be bigots?

They certainly choose which of those biblical rules they'll follow and which they won't...

mrswdk wrote:People 'choose' to be bigots?

There are people you encounter in life you nearly automatically dislike for no apparent reason, it's just there. But bigots & racists hatred is mostly a learned attribute passed on through taught stereotypes, ignorance and intolerance.

So yes, it is a choice. It may begin so early in a child's development that the choice is actually made for them by parents and other adults. The hatred absorbed from a childhood environment probably feels accepted and normal, in a that's the way it's always been sort of way.

I'm not sure bigotry is always "taught." I know a few people who are bigots in various stripes. Most of the bigots I know are religious bigots, and that tends to come from experience more than "my parents taught me..." I do know one woman who has a major problem with black people which came from living in a predominantly black neighborhood and getting her ass kicked at school on a regular basis by three black girls.

oVo wrote:the choice is actually made for them by parents and other adults

Well if this is true then the bigot did not make a choice to be a bigot.

It's worth bearing in mind that the definition of a 'bigot' is very broad. If you are intolerant and unaccepting of paedophiles, terrorists, fascists etc. then you are also a 'bigot', it just happens that your bigotry falls within mainstream standards of what is acceptable. Almost every single person on this planet is a bigot, in one way or another.

Broadly defined, a bigot is one who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ. Someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats or views other people with fear, distrust, hatred, contempt, or intolerance on the basis of a person's opinion, ethnicity, race, religion, national origin, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status, or other characteristic.

I find religious bigotry a curious mental state, since the tenets of most faiths include some form of peace, love and understanding. To me the lacking empathy shown by some people of faith is just odd. Why is it so important in the minds of some people that everyone needs to be just like us?

When you see a genuinely integrated elementary school playground, the kids get on just fine. Their sense of curiosity tends to be a strong trait that eludes hatred and equality has more balance as they interact on their own terms. As they grow older this changes. These early friendships often endure and other times tolerance of others deteriorate with changing situations and environments.

oVo wrote:I find religious bigotry a curious mental state, since the tenets of most faiths include some form of peace, love and understanding. To me the lacking empathy shown by some people of faith is just odd. Why is it so important in the minds of some people that everyone needs to be just like us?

Interestingly, the bigots I was referring to in my post a couple above this one were atheists who are bigoted towards religious people. Do you find that sort of religious bigotry a curious mental state?

Yay - it only took 10 pages for our first "religious people are persecuted" post...

crispybits wrote:Yay - it only took 10 pages for our first "religious people are persecuted" post...

I didn't say persecuted. I said bigoted. Jackass.

Night Strike wrote:I thought progressives supported forcing business owners to serve customers they disagree with. Why isn't this gay person being forced to cut the hair of someone he disagrees with?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.1027072

1. I recommend you find a new stylist.
2. I recommend you have your hair done at night or on weekends instead of during the day while you are being paid to work.
3. I recommend you pay for your hair cut yourself and not foot the tax payers with the bill.

crispybits wrote:Quick answer - the governor gets to CHOOSE whether or not to support same-sex marriage. The gay couple don't get to CHOOSE whether they are attracted to members of the same sex.

What is the evidence that gay people are born that way? Are you saying it can't be learned?

And the issue isn't about attraction, it's about being an intolerant bigot and fascism. The hairdresser decided because someone doesn't think the same way about an issue, he can refuse to do his job and dish out punishment to anyone who disagrees. Andy and the hairdresser are mad they didn't get their Jim Crow laws through that would enforce their values on everyone else.

notyou2 wrote:

Night Strike wrote:I thought progressives supported forcing business owners to serve customers they disagree with. Why isn't this gay person being forced to cut the hair of someone he disagrees with?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.1027072

1. I recommend you find a new stylist.

Sounds a lot like you are saying they should just hang a sign on the door..."no (insert group) allowed"

See how ya are?

notyou2 wrote:

Night Strike wrote:I thought progressives supported forcing business owners to serve customers they disagree with. Why isn't this gay person being forced to cut the hair of someone he disagrees with?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.1027072

1. I recommend you find a new stylist.
2. I recommend you have your hair done at night or on weekends instead of during the day while you are being paid to work.
3. I recommend you pay for your hair cut yourself and not foot the tax payers with the bill.

Sounds a lot like you are saying they should just hang a sign on the door..."no (insert group) allowed"

See how ya are?

Phatscotty wrote:

notyou2 wrote:

Night Strike wrote:I thought progressives supported forcing business owners to serve customers they disagree with. Why isn't this gay person being forced to cut the hair of someone he disagrees with?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.1027072

1. I recommend you find a new stylist.

Sounds a lot like you are saying they should just hang a sign on the door..."no (insert group) allowed"

See how ya are?

What's it to ya? Why I oughta...


--Andy

More importantly, the word "bigot" is more interesting if it's pronounced "BIG-ott."