[CC5] CCup5 - Main Thread [Winner: FALL - MVP: IcePack)

[betiko]

so it's official: TOFU, KORT and LHDD are in semi finals!
still pending FALL 25 ACE 24

[hopalong]

congrats, LHDD, on kicking ass during the long journey.

[Fewnix]

Anybody care to compare how CL6 rankings compare to CCUP5 rankings as we near the finish of both - basically same 8/12 teams at the top of CC by CL6, CCUP5, F400,?

so it's official: TOFU, KORT and LHDD are in semi finals!
still pending FALL 25 ACE 24

I updated results up until now, completed matches only.

See page 1, second post, or click here >> Results May 11

----

I did this for myself, so I thought I might as well share it. Nothing official though.



Notes:

• We have 5 matches still undecided and 6 games still ongoing.
• Under "Matches" are all the decided matches.
• Any clan that reached 4 game wins before the other clan in a match has that registered as a draw (MD).
• Under "Games" are all the finished games.
• APP = Additional Possible Points.
• MPP = Maximum Possible Points.
• GO = Games (still) Ongoing.
• Under "NOTE":
  
  • s = Maximum final score reached.
  • x = Final position secured.
  • ^ = Possibility of moving up a position.
  • blank = None of the above + Possibility of moving down a position.

Only the first position is still being fought for. All other positions are now decided.

Lx

[betiko]

Anybody care to compare how CL6 rankings compare to CCUP5 rankings as we near the finish of both - basically same 8/12 teams at the top of CC by CL6, CCUP5, F400,?

yup, the only thing is that we were playing second division this year so we are not in that cl6 div1 ranking, but we did win the second division

[donche64]

And TSM wasn't involved in any CL6 division phase either

[rockfist]

Anybody care to compare how CL6 rankings compare to CCUP5 rankings as we near the finish of both - basically same 8/12 teams at the top of CC by CL6, CCUP5, F400,?

yup, the only thing is that we were playing second division this year so we are not in that cl6 div1 ranking, but we did win the second division

It will be nice to see how you fair moving up to Premier next season.

[uckuki]

any word on ccup6?
or, we just make the cup biennial (if that's a word)

[Doc_Brown]

any word on ccup6?
or, we just make the cup biennial (if that's a word)

Only one of the two Semifinal wars have started so far. I'd guess we're about 6 months away from completing CC5.

[Lindax]

any word on ccup6?
or, we just make the cup biennial (if that's a word)

Only one of the two Semifinal wars have started so far. I'd guess we're about 6 months away from completing CC5.

Yep. I don't like the idea of starting the next cup before this one is finished. We did start discussing ways to possibly make the CCup last less long. It would be nice if the whole thing could be played in a year and have one every year.

Any ideas anybody?

Lx

[Momo33]

any word on ccup6?
or, we just make the cup biennial (if that's a word)

Only one of the two Semifinal wars have started so far. I'd guess we're about 6 months away from completing CC5.

Yep. I don't like the idea of starting the next cup before this one is finished. We did start discussing ways to possibly make the CCup last less long. It would be nice if the whole thing could be played in a year and have one every year.

Any ideas anybody?

Lx

For my part, CCup should be (kind of because it can't be exactly the same) as the Clan league. And I'm talking about the dates not about the format. All wars of every rounds should have a time frame. Something like, all clan wars in the 1st round should have 3 sets. 1st one exchanged on xxxx, 2nd one exchanged yyyy and 3rd one exchanged zzzzz.

This way it would make this tournament run way faster than it has been in the last 2 years with wars never getting started.

[betiko]

I'm thinking about something but it would likely be frawned upon by clan leaders in terms of home game strategies.
Basically:
-all wars in 2 batches (21-20 for the first round of the cup; 31-30 for the rest of the competition)
- put all conquer maps and large maps on the first batch and all the trench games there. They would be unauthorized on the second batch.

This, and the set dates would reduce significantly the lenght of each war and would give a clear picture to know if you are on schedule with the competition.

[Doc_Brown]

I think there would be a lot of pushback to significantly changing and dictating a strict structure for allowed game and map types. This competition has always been about setting up bracket play for the clans and allowing them to run their own wars within that bracket structure.

The way I see it, a typical 60-game war takes about 3 months. In a 32 clan bracket, you have a minimum of 5 successive wars (though the first ones are 41 games), which is going to cover ~15 months minimum. The round of 32 wars started between May and August of last year. Round of 16 wars started in the September-November timeframe. All the quarterfinal wars had a January-February start time, and Semis will likely be May-June starts.

The best way to shrink the timeline is to either reduce the number of clans or the number of wars a clan will play. For example, what if all 4 clans playing in semifinal games are automatically seeded in the quarterfinals of next-years CCup? CC6 could already be underway to pick the 4 top clans that didn't make it to the semis this year. Further, you could seed the 4 clans eliminated in the CC5 quarterfinals into the qualifier round of 8. Which means the play-in rounds could have started in February. This has another advantage in that the clans that consistently make it to the last rounds each year are held out of the competition longer, which allows the lower ranked clans to play more competitive wars.

[betiko]

I think there would be a lot of pushback to significantly changing and dictating a strict structure for allowed game and map types. This competition has always been about setting up bracket play for the clans and allowing them to run their own wars within that bracket structure.

The way I see it, a typical 60-game war takes about 3 months. In a 32 clan bracket, you have a minimum of 5 successive wars (though the first ones are 41 games), which is going to cover ~15 months minimum. The round of 32 wars started between May and August of last year. Round of 16 wars started in the September-November timeframe. All the quarterfinal wars had a January-February start time, and Semis will likely be May-June starts.

The best way to shrink the timeline is to either reduce the number of clans or the number of wars a clan will play. For example, what if all 4 clans playing in semifinal games are automatically seeded in the quarterfinals of next-years CCup? CC6 could already be underway to pick the 4 top clans that didn't make it to the semis this year. Further, you could seed the 4 clans eliminated in the CC5 quarterfinals into the qualifier round of 8. Which means the play-in rounds could have started in February. This has another advantage in that the clans that consistently make it to the last rounds each year are held out of the competition longer, which allows the lower ranked clans to play more competitive wars.

they last 3 month because they are played in 3 batches, play everything in 2 batches, which means 15 home games instead of 10 per batch and they will last roughly 2 month.
The last games are consistently the same maps... conquer rome, hive, FNA, eurasia, das schloss, stalingrad etc and any trench game. It's not that hard to schedule them on the batch 1 only.

I don't like the play in system, because even if you have a status you need to prove it on the field. Take LHDD for example, we were seeded #13 and we have eliminated the #4 and #5 in 1/8th and 1/4 finals.
Take AFOS for example... they reached a final and the next year half of their best players left and didn't reach quarter finals. The competition loses sense if you keep on removing rounds for some. The finalists already have a bye for the first round of the next edition; removing more rounds wouldn't change the competition time frame either and it wouldn't solve any problem.

[uckuki]

having a standard 41 game format for the entire cup, including finals, would make a big
difference and it would be simplest/easiest to implement, significantly cutting the
length of the competition.
other things can be done too, though certainly with more difficulty & opposition cause
everyone will try to pull their way.

[rockfist]

Betiko,

Under Doc's suggestion, in your case you'd earn the bye(s) for being at worst a semi finalist. So you would not have to "prove yourself" next year until you got to some advanced rounds.

[betiko]

Betiko,

Under Doc's suggestion, in your case you'd earn the bye(s) for being at worst a semi finalist. So you would not have to "prove yourself" next year until you got to some advanced rounds.

yeah but even if it would benefit LHDD, I don't like it. In fact I'd be in favour of a complete draw without any seeding. This would give much more interest to the first rounds and would give a better chance to smaller clans to shine. Also, if I take a clan like you guys; things are only starting to get interesting now in semi finals, it was just a walk in the park till this stage and it always is for finalists of the previous year.
Not really in favour of 41 games all the way if people agree to 2x30 games batches; if not, why not. This is to me the real problem of the CC cup's length.... the 3 batches!

[rockfist]

I don't think we should have to play the likes of KORT in the first round. How would you feel about playing us in the first round? I'm not in favor of a random draw.

You were a 13 seed. You've played well and have as good a chance to win as anyone. Although 13 isn't a low seed it's not what I would call a high seed either so I think it does give everyone a chance. If you get to the finals against us or KORT you will have had a chance to iron out the kinks and gel as a team. As a lower seed I would think that is more of a benefit than it would be for a higher seed (who theoretically has less kinks). You will have good momentum and confidence at that point. Meeting a top seeded team in the first round does not afford that opportunity.

I expect by cc6 you'll be right around a top five seed or thereabouts. I don't think top fives should play each other right away...maybe seed the top 8 teams and random draw the rest?

[Lindax]

Thanks for your comments guys.

I have opened a discussion topic in the CDF Forum: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 9&t=212773

Lx

[Dako]

2x30 batches sound good to me.

Another thing - split CCup into 2 divisions, 1-16 and 16-32. After the end of CCup promote top-4 clans from second division to first, and demote 4 worst performing clans.

[Fewnix]

Two suggestions to pass on the CDs in a digital world:

1. Rather than two rounds ,just one round, with the start of the games staggered over a set time.

Spoiler

For example: at the start of CCUP 6 all quads games for both sides have to be set up and joined by the end of week one, all trips games have to be set up and joined by week 3 and all doubs games have to be set up and joined by week 5.

Quad games with 8 players taking their turn each round of the game means quad games should take longer to finish then trips games with 6 players taking their turn each round and trip games should take longer than dubs games. Rough math -7 weeks for most of the quads games to end ,say by day 60 5 weeks for most of the trips games to end, say by day 60, 3 weeks for most of the the dubs games to end , say by day 60. A big bump in activity week 3. as the trip games start,game load starts to drop a bit by week 5 as some of the quads games wind down, another bump in activity follows week 5 as the dubs game start, followed by a drop as more of the qauds and trips games finish.

first stage of CCUP in many brackets should end about week 8, within about 6o days of CCUP starting,

2. No fixed start date for stage two and all further stages of CCUP.winning clans move on to the next stage quickly, clans eliminated can find other things to do

Spoiler

Say Clan A beats Clan B 60 days after CCUP starts . It has to get ready for the next stage in the bracket elimination. facing off against the winner of C v D, by setting up its home games( quads games?) within one week of the winner of A v B being decided,. Whoever wins in the C v D clash has to has set up its own home games ( quad games?) within one week of the winner being decided ans to join the already set up games of clan A within the week,

Say day 63 of CCUP , the winner of C v D is decided and its Clan D. Clan D has until day 70 to join the already set up games of clan A and set up its own home games.

Rough guess with 32 clans starting at day 1.-
About day 60 a few of the 16 winning clans start to proceed to stage 2 and by day 70 most of the 16 winning clans are at stage 2, Maybe about day 120 some of the 8 winning clans of stage 2 start to proceed to stage 3 and the hope is by about day, 130. or day 140 at worst, most of the 8 winning clans of stage 2 are at stage 3, with the 24 calns elimianted free to do other thingss.

By about day 180 maybe day 200 at worst,, 6 to months after CCUP6 starts, most of the 32 clans who started in CCUP6 are out of CCUP6 and can be doing other things . - there are only 4 clans concerned about the game load involved in deciding the ranking of the top 4- gold , silver or bronze medals, with an honourable mention for the 4th place winner.

something like that?
'

Thanks for your comments guys.

I have opened a discussion topic in the CDF Forum: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 9&t=212773

Lx

[betiko]

Should be fun! Looking forward to it. IF we proceeded to the end our path looks like this:

32: VVV
16: RET/FAD winner
8: ACE likely
4: PACK/TSM likely
Final: TOFU/KORT likely

That's a hell of path.

It's also a hell of a lot of assuming....

Lx

That's why I wrote "IF" and not if, and assumed higher seeds prevail which is pretty typical, but not guaranteed. That I figured was just understood

well so far you got it all right pack except that you were not expecting to face us at all in semis... but we were not expecting to face you guys either!

[donche64]

And it's certainly the toughest war so far...

[Momo33]

And it's certainly the toughest war so far...

For us... don't forgot they faced ACE last round with a very close score!

[donche64]

yes, for us of course!

[IcePack]

Both wars are now in the final round, should be pretty exciting to watch!