Random Historical Mafia(The Gunpowder Plot); Town Win!

[TimWoodbury]

Obviously, we could force BuJ to prove his claim by having him save someone.

if we was to force him to prove his claim who would you wanna force the vote on any why said person?

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Don't like calling anyone a liar,tend to believe you Wing, but hard to prove , Mod can you help with this without giving anything away ?

Impossible to prove.

However. What was my motivation for slipping up on fake claims as it were? There is a much easier case against Bujaber. Guy Fawkes was trying to assasinate the king, blowing up the houses of parliment was just the method. If Bujaber was really King James then by logic the game should end on his death.

If you want to play by flavour alone then King James should not be in this game. However, as I said William objects to flavour breaking games, and said so, so is unlikely to have made flavour that important.

This whole train of thought is entirely pointless.

I personally am quite happy lynching a claimed town govenor D1 who I believe to be scum. The king claim is meaningless.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Obviously, we could force BuJ to prove his claim by having him save someone.

if we was to force him to prove his claim who would you wanna force the vote on any why said person?

So basically a vote for no lynch, AND if Bujaber is mafia there is a free lynch for mafia? Nice idea.

Lynch Bujaber or dont lynch him. Dont play chicken with single use powers.

[TimWoodbury]

Obviously, we could force BuJ to prove his claim by having him save someone.

if we was to force him to prove his claim who would you wanna force the vote on any why said person?

So basically a vote for no lynch, AND if Bujaber is mafia there is a free lynch for mafia? Nice idea.

Lynch Bujaber or dont lynch him. Dont play chicken with single use powers.

if you read he said he can use his power multiple times so its not single use

[TimWoodbury]

unvote vote wing commander you seem to really wanna lynch someone who since his claim many are now agreeing is town im not liking this much.

[dakky21]

As I said before, I do believe one part of BuJ's claim, it is possible that we have a King.
Being able to stop any lynch all the time sounds great, but at a same time overpowered, so I don't believe that part of the claim.

Claiming King sounds like a great fake claim or the real King doesn't want to counterclaim in order not to reveal himself, so after all, I think BuJaber is lying (either not a King or not having that powers).

unvote, vote BuJaber

[Iron Butterfly]

Unvote

As several have said Gov is marginally useful unless game is on line. Even then the roleis only good if one knows for certain the one saved is Town. I just wish he had not dragged out his claim.

Now we have the Wing thing, which is now hung upon a technicality. Was he caught in a lie or was post edited?

[Iron Butterfly]

Unvote

As several have said Gov is marginally useful unless game is on line. Even then the roleis only good if one knows for certain the one saved is Town. I just wish he had not dragged out his claim.

Now we have the Wing thing, which is now hung upon a technicality. Was he caught in a lie or was post edited?

But yeh edited 19 times so most likely telling the truth. Not a case for a lynch.

[dakky21]

Now we have the Wing thing, which is now hung upon a technicality. Was he caught in a lie or was post edited?

You're not reading. Skimming like this is enough for FOS. He said the the original first post of the thread was edited and that William said he will provide good fake claims, but that was edited and it's no longer written in the 1st post.

[dakky21]

EBWOP: Misunderstood you IB, thought you thought Wing edited his own post, lol. Disregard the last post please

[Metsfanmax]

However. What was my motivation for slipping up on fake claims as it were?

Obviously you don't need a motivation for a slip, a slip is a mistake. And in this case the logic is straightforward: the person who would mostly likely remember that fakeclaims exist is someone who needs one.

At any rate, you're not correct. What the OP did originally say was "I feel fake claiming in games with established fiction is too much of a feat, and I want claims to be played out instead of fizzling on the same day." That is most decidedly not the same as saying that he's going to provide good fakeclaims; what I think it is saying is that he wants us to avoid games where a fakeclaim is so hard to achieve due to the fact that the meta can be used to disprove it. For example, in the Harry Potter mafia, fakeclaiming Harry Potter or any of the other main characters would have been a pretty damn big risk if the mod didn't provide it for you, because you can't know which of them was in the game. In fact the sentiment here is directly supporting the idea that he doesn't give out fakeclaims; the difficulty of fakeclaiming in a game based on known fiction is unimportant if the mod provides you with the fakeclaim.

There is a much easier case against Bujaber. Guy Fawkes was trying to assasinate the king, blowing up the houses of parliment was just the method. If Bujaber was really King James then by logic the game should end on his death.

What, and the Harry Potter game ends when Harry Potter dies? Batman mafia ends if Batman dies? That's never how this game works, you know better, which means you're intentionally obfuscating.

[madmitch]

@ Mets , nice statement ,Now back to BuJaber ,lets say he is telling the truth and he is the King , wouldn't he have better powers then saving someone else from being hanged ? He should be bullet proof or hang proof or something, and how does he know who's he is saving ? Christ he could be saving the scum that want to kill him. ,So if he does die the game will still proceed ,because the letter basically said that they wanted to blow up King and the parliament. Shit he amost sounds like a third party , important but not that important, I just do not know what to do at this moment, I do not want to hang the King but something is not quite right about his abilities and it bothers me . Got to think a bit more on this and see what other people think.

[william18]

Vote Count:

Tim - ptlowe
Ragian - Bujaber
Bujaber - madmitch, Hotshot53, Dakky21
Dakky - gregwolf121
WingCmdrGinkapo - Metsfanmax, Marashu, Tim Woodbury

[Metsfanmax]

I'm going to unvote, vote dakky. I still think there's a good probability that Wing slipped but I am less confident in that than I am that dakky's play is a big scum tell. Especially after that last post.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

There is a much easier case against Bujaber. Guy Fawkes was trying to assasinate the king, blowing up the houses of parliment was just the method. If Bujaber was really King James then by logic the game should end on his death.

What, and the Harry Potter game ends when Harry Potter dies? Batman mafia ends if Batman dies? That's never how this game works, you know better, which means you're intentionally obfuscating.

Harry Potter isnt a story about a single boy, its about good defeating evil. Harry Potter living is secondary to that endeavour. Same is true with batman.

1605 1st Nov is about Guy Fawkes and co trying to kill the king. Single entity not group.

Or are you to suggest next that town arent hunting Guy Fawkes? I mean your D1 play suggests hunting him is important, but you know fiction is irrelevant to mafia as per your latest post.

Why is there no emoji for giving Mets the two finger salute. (Tim you are going to have to google that)

[Iron Butterfly]

Vote Dakky

I tend to believe Buj is who he says. Now Dakky he is an interesting case. Time and time again he makes slips in a variety of ways. I am not saying he made a slip that he is scum persay however his chat can be revealing.

Again this whole wing thing I cant agree with. I felt Mets was not scum because he would not bring himself attention the way he did. The same holds for Wing. If Wing were mafia saying fake claims are in game is not something I think mafia would bring attention to. One could argue that as mafia he would want Bujaber lynched but on day one taking big risks to lynch a Townie day one is unnecessary as Town usually eats it's own day one.

[Metsfanmax]

Or are you to suggest next that town arent hunting Guy Fawkes? I mean your D1 play suggests hunting him is important, but you know fiction is irrelevant to mafia as per your latest post.

Your argument is quite clearly nonsense because the Gunpowder Plot was not one guy against the government. There was a whole group of a dozen co-conspirators. Guy Fawkes wasn't even the leader of the group, he's just most closely associated with it because he was the one caught guarding the explosives they were planning to blow up. If you're going to make claims about the meta then do your homework. You could just as easily make the same ludicrous argumentation you made about Guy Fawkes as you did about Harry Potter (if Harry Potter died they couldn't have defeated Voldemort, so you might as well end the game when Harry dies, herp derp).

The whole point of the aforementioned argument is that even if in real life taking down one of the group would have foiled the real plot (and did, in this case), that's not how mafia works, you always have to take down the whole group to win. The fact that it doesn't hew perfectly to reality doesn't make your argument correct. I'd argue that it shouldn't be correct, but more importantly it doesn't matter because you have no idea how the mod's mind was working in this case, and so the argument that he didn't make this town against Guy Fawkes because you might not do that is the most massive piece of bullshit I've seen in mafia at least since the last page of this game.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Or are you to suggest next that town arent hunting Guy Fawkes? I mean your D1 play suggests hunting him is important, but you know fiction is irrelevant to mafia as per your latest post.

Your argument is quite clearly nonsense because the Gunpowder Plot was not one guy against the government. There was a whole group of a dozen co-conspirators. Guy Fawkes wasn't even the leader of the group, he's just most closely associated with it because he was the one caught guarding the explosives they were planning to blow up. If you're going to make claims about the meta then do your homework. You could just as easily make the same ludicrous argumentation you made about Guy Fawkes as you did about Harry Potter (if Harry Potter died they couldn't have defeated Voldemort, so you might as well end the game when Harry dies, herp derp).

The whole point of the aforementioned argument is that even if in real life taking down one of the group would have foiled the real plot (and did, in this case), that's not how mafia works, you always have to take down the whole group to win. The fact that it doesn't hew perfectly to reality doesn't make your argument correct. I'd argue that it shouldn't be correct, but more importantly it doesn't matter because you have no idea how the mod's mind was working in this case, and so the argument that he didn't make this town against Guy Fawkes because you might not do that is the most massive piece of bullshit I've seen in mafia at least since the last page of this game.

Oh so NOW the story is important!

Lets go back to discussing why killing the king would end the game...

Mets you are arguing two sides of the argument. You look like a fool.

[Metsfanmax]

Or are you to suggest next that town arent hunting Guy Fawkes? I mean your D1 play suggests hunting him is important, but you know fiction is irrelevant to mafia as per your latest post.

Your argument is quite clearly nonsense because the Gunpowder Plot was not one guy against the government. There was a whole group of a dozen co-conspirators. Guy Fawkes wasn't even the leader of the group, he's just most closely associated with it because he was the one caught guarding the explosives they were planning to blow up. If you're going to make claims about the meta then do your homework. You could just as easily make the same ludicrous argumentation you made about Guy Fawkes as you did about Harry Potter (if Harry Potter died they couldn't have defeated Voldemort, so you might as well end the game when Harry dies, herp derp).

The whole point of the aforementioned argument is that even if in real life taking down one of the group would have foiled the real plot (and did, in this case), that's not how mafia works, you always have to take down the whole group to win. The fact that it doesn't hew perfectly to reality doesn't make your argument correct. I'd argue that it shouldn't be correct, but more importantly it doesn't matter because you have no idea how the mod's mind was working in this case, and so the argument that he didn't make this town against Guy Fawkes because you might not do that is the most massive piece of bullshit I've seen in mafia at least since the last page of this game.

Oh so NOW the story is important!

Lets go back to discussing why killing the king would end the game...

Mets you are arguing two sides of the argument. You look like a fool.

No, you're just currently being too thick to understand pretty simple mafia basics. The story is used to determine who the bad guys are and who the good guys are. Sometimes (but not always) the character roles correspond to the real abilities of the characters of the story. Sometimes (but not often) the plot details of the story correspond to actual game mechanics. That's where the importance of the story ends. This is exactly what I have been saying the whole time. You are the one who's making the ridiculous claim that the specific plot details of the story must correspond to the game mechanics, and that if they don't, that proves that the story is not the one being used in the game.

[Iron Butterfly]

OHhhhhhh....this is the part I forgot about. A 5 page argument between Townies as the day wanes.

Mets either make a case and vote Wing or focus on other matters. It has been awhile but is certifiably par for the course. You guys are arguing stupid shit and trying to be right. Just let us know when your done so we can continue.

[Metsfanmax]

OHhhhhhh....this is the part I forgot about. A 5 page argument between Townies as the day wanes.

Mets either make a case and vote Wing or focus on other matters. It has been awhile but is certifiably par for the course. You guys are arguing stupid shit and trying to be right. Just let us know when your done so we can continue.

This is not merely academic. Wing's argument is essentially the entirety of his basis for being skeptical of BuJaber. If we can convince him that the King having a role like governor is really not at all out of the ordinary for a game of CC mafia then we can focus on better cases.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

OHhhhhhh....this is the part I forgot about. A 5 page argument between Townies as the day wanes.

Mets either make a case and vote Wing or focus on other matters. It has been awhile but is certifiably par for the course. You guys are arguing stupid shit and trying to be right. Just let us know when your done so we can continue.

This is not merely academic. Wing's argument is essentially the entirety of his basis for being skeptical of BuJaber. If we can convince him that the King having a role like governor is really not at all out of the ordinary for a game of CC mafia then we can focus on better cases.

Is it? Do you not preach that we should be sceptical of all? What makes Bujaber a weak case? You are awfully commited to saving him.

[Ragian]

You can't include that in "his way of thinking" as it has nothing to do with the game. It was a pregame joke.

I understand what you are saying but why is my pregame jokes held against me ?

What pregame joke is held against you?

I'm going to unvote, vote dakky. I still think there's a good probability that Wing slipped but I am less confident in that than I am that dakky's play is a big scum tell. Especially after that last post.

Could you elaborate on that, mate?

FP'ed by Wing.

[madmitch]

@ I.B. how to you know that they are both townies ? I am pretty sure Wing is but I am having concerns about Mets, he sure seems to know a lot about this story and his very first statement was I am not Guy Fawkes, that had me wondering big time . So God saved the King , and I will UNVOTE VOTE METS

[Metsfanmax]

Is it? Do you not preach that we should be sceptical of all? What makes Bujaber a weak case? You are awfully commited to saving him.

Of course we should be skeptical of BuJaber, but we should skeptical of him for legitimate reasons, not silly ones. The role he claims is perfectly plausible. That doesn't mean I believe or disbelieve it, I just find it to be plausible that the King of England is in this game and that he could have a role like the governor. So I reject any argument of the form "BuJaber may be scum because his role claim is implausible." That's only going to fly if you have a specific reason to believe that statement, not just because you think you're better at metagaming than everyone else. If you want to have a reason to go after him, focus on his strange argument that he was secretly playing to force someone to role claim the whole time. I'm not sure that it's scummy but there's more to go on than the current case. There's no defense BuJaber can offer to your argument -- all he can do is say "this is my role" and move on.

Could you elaborate on that, mate?

FP'ed by Wing.

I described my suspicions of dakky early on. When he is town or third party, he usually goes for big gambits and tries to be the center of attention on D1. This is a pattern we've seen very consistently across the last few games he's been in. When he is not town, he tends to stay in the background and push the attention onto other people. He was already doing this until his last mistake, and that last pair of posts makes it even more obvious that he's searching for things he can find to push the focus onto other people (in this case, his target was IB, but it didn't matter who it was so long as it was a smokescreen case). The fact that he corrected himself only indicates that he was smart enough to realize that his plan wouldn't work.