Flame Wars needs to go!

b.k. barunt · Post by **b.k. barunt** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:20 am

wicked wrote:Bravo!

Let's all make it our mission now to yuppify BK!

*hands BK Birkenstocks*

* * Puts on the Birkenstocks and experiences a craving for Brie and Barry Manilow. * *

PhatJoey · Post by **PhatJoey** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:41 am

Well done BK!

Sorry, but no I will not return to Flame Wars. I have already spent too much time there. I am sure that you will mock me to no end there, so go right ahead. According to some of those who feel it is appropriate, if it makes you feel better then it must be okay. I do not agree.

For your info, I have spent several years of weekends in biker bars as well. Actually, they were some of the nicest people I've ever met. At least you always knew exactly where you stood with them. There didn't seem to be a lot of bull going on. Everything was up front. I also spent enough time there to know that if you acted there the way you do in Flame Wars there would not be enough left of you to prop up at your computer and spew whatever it is that you are thinking at the moment. But I guess that is the beauty of online anonimity.

As far as Flame Wars goes, it's obvious that the majority wants to see it go or be greatly reformed. I find it very hard to believe that being able to go into a forum and vent in an obscene manner is going to keep any potential mass murderer from doing their thing. If anything, spending too much time in the Flame Wars forum might actually push you towards the edge instead of pulling you back from it. But I also think that if someone is going to go that way, they are going to go no matter what because they have much larger issues at work than whether or not they get to blow off a little steam online.

I only wanted to ask the question of others on this forum and now I have my answer. To be honest it's about what I expected and it could have gone either way. Thanks for putting your thoughts out there in a decent manner.

PhatJoey · Post by **PhatJoey** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:42 am

By the way B.K. - the thought of you in Birkenstocks, listening to Barry Manilow and eating Brie . . . well . . . it almost makes me want to start a thread in Flame Wars dedicated to that image alone!

DAZMCFC · Post by **DAZMCFC** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:01 am

now there have been quite a few flamers that have come into this thread without swearing or hurling abuse at anyone. so i don`t know where your coming fromwhen you say that we have to use appropriate language in this thread.

why do you and others like you want FW shut down. it has been said many times before, no one forces you to click on a thred in FW, so why do it if your easily offended. don`t get me wrong there are some idiots in FW, but there are idiots from all walks of life every single community will have at least one "village" idiot(we seem to have a few though). just ignore their posts and move on.

PhatJoey · Post by **PhatJoey** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:58 am

DAZMCFC wrote:now there have been quite a few flamers that have come into this thread without swearing or hurling abuse at anyone. so i don`t know where your coming fromwhen you say that we have to use appropriate language in this thread.

Who is this addressed to? I didn't say that you had to. The rules for the site as created by Lack say you do. Did you perhaps misconstrue my insistence that the debate be conducted here in this forum instead of in Flame Wars where it would not actually go anywhere except right to garbage? I just want to have an intelligent conversation as to whether or not ALL of the users of this site want the Flame Wars to continue on in their current almost anything goes format.

PhatJoey · Post by **PhatJoey** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:03 pm

Hey DAZ -

Just so you know . . I have read it and I am not offended. I served my nation in the Marine Corps and there is nothing, and I mean NOTHING, that anyone can say that could possible offend me after hearing my Drill Instructors rant and rave for three months, even if it was 28 years ago.

My only point is that there ARE people who are offended by it as is evidenced by this poll.

DAZMCFC · Post by **DAZMCFC** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:06 pm

it`s not that anything goes, you have to have limits of course. not everyone attacks someone for being coloured,gay or anything else for that matter thats against the rules(not deliberatly anyway). it`s just that too many people take it all too seriously and not for the mindless fun that it can be. there are some intelectual flames in there if you look hard enough.

kalishnikov · Post by **kalishnikov** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:53 pm

If Flame Wars goes, do you understand what will happen to the rest of this forum? "When the gates of Hell open, henceforth spill one-hundred thousand demons to devour all in their path and reek havoc across all nations," a fitting quote from The Divine Comedy (I think) that would adequately describe the situation that would be at hand.

Do you really want Ron, Beastly, b.k., Norse and too many others to list running about the rest of the community making things a bit less 'family-friendly' for everyone? Or would you prefer they keep it limited to one place where they can exchange mindless mono-syllabic curses out of the sight of most of the younger members? Besides, nothing said in there isn't anything that they won't here in school or from there friends by the time they reach 12 years old.

I'm not a Flame Wars die-hard, far from it. I'll stop by occasionally but it's more for the amusement one gets when watching the rec yard at the slow children's school then to actually partake in flaming (unless it's wrestler), and I'm going to tell you right now that within a week of FW being abolished, every person in this thread will wish that it was still there for exactly the reasons that b.k. stated a few posts above mine.

When giving a place to congregate, they will do so. When you take that from them they shall take/do what they want. You cannot make a site for anything that breeds competitiveness (i.e., anything rank involved) and not expect that contempt for opponents will arise. Given a place to vent said frustration, most will keep it limited to the designated area.

PhatJoey · Post by **PhatJoey** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:15 pm

Yes. They will post all over the other forums as many times as the mods let them violate the rules. And that's where the problem lies with trying to clean up the forums. The mods appear to be:

1. under-staffed
2. volunteers
3. or in the worst possible case, actually unwilling to hold the members to the rules and live with it because they themselves don't agree with them

So, that brings it to one of three choices.

1. Get more mods and deal with the problem saying good riddance to those who leave or are banned as a result.
2. Continue to ignore the problem and lose current and potential members who will not tolerate it.
3. Change the rules. (see number 2)

b.k. barunt · Post by **b.k. barunt** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:04 pm

Yeah that's it - it's all the mods fault. What's wrong with you mods?!! Can't you see this poor . . . um . . . boy is being traumatized? Joey, have you considered writing a letter to your congressman? Hell, oops, i mean heck, maybe you could have your mommy write one too. Tell these mean, nasty flame people to leave joey alone.

Honibaz

wrestler1ump · Post by **wrestler1ump** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:52 pm

If we get rid of flame wars, people are not allowed to flame in other parts of the forum. If they do, they get banned. Simple as that.

wicked · Post by **wicked** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:56 pm

Also, If we don't get rid of flame wars, people are not allowed to flame in other parts of the forum. If they do, they get banned. Simple as that.

wrestler1ump · Post by **wrestler1ump** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:57 pm

Completely agreed. I am willing to be a vigilante; I'll report any offenders to the authorities here.

suggs · Post by **suggs** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:01 pm

wrestler1ump wrote:Completely agreed. I am willing to be a vigilante; I'll report any offenders to the authorities here.

oh dear Lord. Wrestlerthingmebob old boy-easy on the sycophancy.
I cant falme you so i will merely, with the utmost respect, ask you to pipe down just a tad.
I'm sure the Mods are finding your fascinating observations just a tiny bit sickening-still YOU ARE A GREAT BLOKE, so this isnt a flame.
But it would be great if you never typed another word-in the nicest possible sense.
love you wresslethingy

wicked · Post by **wicked** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:02 pm

Phat, we rely on the community heavily here. Even if we had 100 mods, we'd still miss things since this is a very active forum. We rely on you guys PMing us to show us where you think someone was out of line. If you whine and complain about people breaking the guidelines, but don't pass that info on to us, well then you're just whining and complaining for nothing.

So instead of saying we're not doing our jobs well, how about helping us out? It's like sitting watching your house burn down and not calling the fire department. This has been an interesting thread, but I don't see FW going anywhere.

PhatJoey · Post by **PhatJoey** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:05 pm

b.k. barunt wrote:Tell these mean, nasty flame people to leave joey alone.

I don't care if anyone picks on me. I can handle them. Once again, you have failed to get my point. There ARE people, lots of them, who find it offensive at the least and obscene at the worst. Most of them never say anything because people in the Forum have bullied them into silence.

PhatJoey · Post by **PhatJoey** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:30 pm

wicked wrote:Phat, we rely on the community heavily here. Even if we had 100 mods, we'd still miss things since this is a very active forum. We rely on you guys PMing us to show us where you think someone was out of line. If you whine and complain about people breaking the guidelines, but don't pass that info on to us, well then you're just whining and complaining for nothing. So instead of saying we're not doing our jobs well, how about helping us out? It's like sitting watching your house burn down and not calling the fire department. This has been an interesting thread, but I don't see FW going anywhere.

I really do appreciate the time and effort you folks put in and I think that is obvious in my posts, but whining and complaining? Why are you giving me a hard time when I ask you to enforce the rules instead of giving those who are breaking them the bans they deserve?

OK. I'll do my part. So here goes, consider this your notice from me:

The Flame Wars Forum is completely out of line. I just finished going through the 10 first postings in the 10 most recent threads and 54% (FACT) of them have profanity, obscenity, homophobic or bigotted remarks. There. Now you can go to work.

MOBAJOBG · Post by **MOBAJOBG** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:45 pm

PhatJoey, just grow up for your own well being sake. okie-dokie

PhatJoey · Post by **PhatJoey** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:47 pm

Hey BK! Just so you know . . . I'm 47. I served on active duty in the USMC for 5 years from 1979 to 1984. My older cousin died in Nam serving with the Corps. My youngest son just returned from serving with them himself in Iraq. We have a tradition of service to our nation that you will have a hard time matching.

I played in the band rotation at the Landmark on Sherman Avenue in Muskegon, Michigan for at the better part of 7 years during the late 80's. It was the ONLY biker bar in the city at that time where you could actually wear your colors and the Harleys would be lined up around the bar every night.

All of this is FACT.

You almost got me to post this in FW. Nice try.

wicked · Post by **wicked** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:56 pm

Phat, take a gander at our forum guidelines (linked at the top of the page). Everything you listed except for bigotry is allowed in FW. Now if you have a specific post where there's bigotted language, feel free to PM me and I'll take a look at it. Chances are the person has already been warned/banned about it. We give everyone warnings first, then move on to bans. We typically don't announce the bans and we don't go back and edit the posts, so it may not be as obvious to some that we're moderating there, but I can tell you it's obvious to the regulars who post there.

Visaoni · Post by **Visaoni** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:58 pm

PhatJoey wrote:
wicked wrote:Phat, we rely on the community heavily here. Even if we had 100 mods, we'd still miss things since this is a very active forum. We rely on you guys PMing us to show us where you think someone was out of line. If you whine and complain about people breaking the guidelines, but don't pass that info on to us, well then you're just whining and complaining for nothing. So instead of saying we're not doing our jobs well, how about helping us out? It's like sitting watching your house burn down and not calling the fire department. This has been an interesting thread, but I don't see FW going anywhere.
I really do appreciate the time and effort you folks put in and I think that is obvious in my posts, but whining and complaining? Why are you giving me a hard time when I ask you to enforce the rules instead of giving those who are breaking them the bans they deserve?

OK. I'll do my part. So here goes, consider this your notice from me:

The Flame Wars Forum is completely out of line. I just finished going through the 10 first postings in the 10 most recent threads and 54% (FACT) of them have profanity, obscenity, homophobic or bigotted remarks. There. Now you can go to work.

I don't think wicked was directing anything at you. She was just trying to bail wrestler out a bit, and justify his uh... constant PMs to the mods for eh... god knows what.

b.k. barunt · Post by **b.k. barunt** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:54 pm

PhatJoey wrote:
b.k. barunt wrote:Tell these mean, nasty flame people to leave joey alone.
I don't care if anyone picks on me. I can handle them. Once again, you have failed to get my point. There ARE people, lots of them, who find it offensive at the least and obscene at the worst. Most of them never say anything because people in the Forum have bullied them into silence.

Well golly gee whiz joey, if you can "handle" them, why are you afraid to come to flame wars and give an account for yourself? Were you "bullied into silence"? That's terrible! Who would do such a thing? Tell me who it was and i'll scold them for you. You know (and believe me i have your best interests at heart when i say this), when you continue to respond to someone's flames, but will only do so from your place of safety here, some people might equate that with cowardice - like the little girls who stick their tongues out at you while they hide behind their mommas skirts.

Honibaz

Scott-Land · Post by **Scott-Land** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:38 pm

b.k. barunt wrote:
PhatJoey wrote:B.K. Guh-runt and his minions are trying their best to goad me into replying to their flame thread (including sending me a PM invitation) and I know they are monitoring this one. So I will in turn challenge them to come here to THIS forum and argue their point in an appropriate manner and actually attempt to apply logic instead of flaming and resorting to their usual boorish behavior. I don't think think he, Ronalhindo, and their ilk can manage it, but perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised . . . let's see . . . waiting . . .
Evidently PJ here cannot abide by his own admonished standards of "appropriate" behavior, but i will try, out of respect for wicked, to reply appropriately without putting PJ down. Perhaps if he would like to sling some more (i won't even say lame) insults, he might summon up the courage to accept my invitation to flame wars.
So let us examine the situation here appropriately. We have a special forum set aside specifically for blowing off steam in a barbaric and totally inappropriate manner. Huzzah! There are those of us who are not by nature civilized, and living in society as we know it can be maddening. People like PJ love rules and regulations - i find them constricting. He loves police because they keep him safe - i don't need them to keep me safe, and all they are to me is a pain in the . . . um . . . neck. The safer and more predictable life gets, the happier PJ is, and the crazier i get. I ride a bike instead of a car, and that helps some, and having a place like flame wars to blow off steam helps some too. I used to have an outlaw biker bar to hang out in, but too many yuppies moved across the lake from New Orleans, and they managed to have it closed down - much like PJ and his fellow . . . um . . . complainers (wicked you owe me bigtime for this) want to do with flame wars. As a result, homicides went up for a while, as did assaults and other fun and games, but after a couple years or so, they managed to drive most of the barbarians north a few miles. I myself married a yuppie (when she was still a hippie type in college mind you - they didn't have yuppies yet back then) so i'm stuck here. I try to behave myself, but i'm slowly reaching critical mass. Now i ask you, would you rather have me rant and rave a little on the flame war forum, or read about me in the paper when i finally redline and walk into the nearest Dairy Queen with an AK47?
If you don't like flame wars, stay the . . . um . . . don't go there. Is that too simple for you? Then come to the thread i made in your honor in Flame Wars and i'll give you a more in depth explanation.

Honibaz

I could care less if there were Flame Wars or not. I do however think reading this post was a terrible 5 minutes of my time. BK on occasion is witty and funny but this post is idiotic . Comparing life to flame wars , Dairy Queen, Outlaws and AK47s. This is the exact reason why sociopaths like BK need Flame Wars. No need for teenagers to read this garbage in General Discussion.

PhatJoey · Post by **PhatJoey** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:39 pm

wicked wrote:Phat, take a gander at our forum guidelines (linked at the top of the page). Everything you listed except for bigotry is allowed in FW.

OK so here's the list:

Bigotry (e.g. racism, religion-bashing, aggressively homophobic language);
Betting or gambling on, through, or because of CC;
Pornography in posts, avatars or hyperlinks;
Trolling (including multiple postings, spam, abusive content, and specific attempts to cause chaos, disruption or headaches to the community members or staff)

Obscenity IS porn is case you haven't looked it up. But no matter . . . I'm done with it.

Lock it down!

NESconqueror · Post by **NESconqueror** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:49 pm

PhatJoey wrote:
wicked wrote:Phat, take a gander at our forum guidelines (linked at the top of the page). Everything you listed except for bigotry is allowed in FW.
OK so here's the list:

Bigotry (e.g. racism, religion-bashing, aggressively homophobic language);
Betting or gambling on, through, or because of CC;
Pornography in posts, avatars or hyperlinks;
Trolling (including multiple postings, spam, abusive content, and specific attempts to cause chaos, disruption or headaches to the community members or staff)

Obscenity IS porn is case you haven't looked it up. But no matter . . . I'm done with it.

Lock it down!

I say lock it down for Even one bit of inappropriate material that Violates the forums can spread like wildfire to other areas and as a result, mass permanent bans...

Flame Wars needs to go!

Do you think Flame Wars has passed its usefullness and just needs to go away to make this site more family friendly?