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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:01 pm
by Guiscard
Jamie wrote:Obama has no views or opinions on anything. His whole campain has been one huge rah rah rah session. All he says is "together we can bring change to this country" Change what you retard. Say something useful. I've listened to hours of debate, and he never says anything of any real substance. He just says whatever he can to get a crowd excited. He'd make a great motivational speaker, but he'd be a joke as president. He's using a very common ploy to possibly win the democratic nomination. He's just doing whatever he can to get crowds fired up, and bring attention to himself.
You have absolutely zero input in this debate considering your last Obama post. Go edit some old posts to cover up past pwnage or something.
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:02 pm
by got tonkaed
well then you ultimatly are holding stances that lead to the destruction of france as it were. Though nation states have the potential to become things of the past, the absolute best way to ensure a culture will go away quietly into the good night, is to drive it into economic failure, which widespread curbing of immigration would likely contribute to (though it certainly in and of itself would not be a casual factor).
edit...im going home, so i may not be able to participate in our oncoming debate about the ability of the french culture to survive because of its inherent awesomeness. Assume therefore that you have won, and that i too believe france and all things french (minus the immigrants obviously) are the coolest thing since paris.
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:06 pm
by Napoleon Ier
got tonkaed wrote:well then you ultimatly are holding stances that lead to the destruction of france as it were. Though nation states have the potential to become things of the past, the absolute best way to ensure a culture will go away quietly into the good night, is to drive it into economic failure, which widespread curbing of immigration would likely contribute to (though it certainly in and of itself would not be a casual factor).
edit...im going home, so i may not be able to participate in our oncoming debate about the ability of the french culture to survive because of its inherent awesomeness. Assume therefore that you have won, and that i too believe france and all things french (minus the immigrants obviously) are the coolest thing since paris.
Not really....most immigrants here are American and Australian. They work. They then go home.
I want to get rid of the ghettoised ethnic sub-stratas that have encrusted themselves in our cities.
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:06 pm
by Guiscard
Napoleon Ier wrote:I only oppose long-term settling of people.
IF someone comes to work, great. Work, get miney, go home.
Then we'd have no America in the first place. You constantly seem to be labouring under some bizarre delusion that immigration doesn't necessarily need to exist! Your ancestors were immigrants who stayed put, as were mine, as were GT's... It will always happen; violently, legally, illegally, forced, gradual... To say you oppose long term settlement is ludicrous. What right do you have to say that any 'culture' cannot migrate to France, or any other country for that matter?
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:07 pm
by Napoleon Ier
got tonkaed wrote:well then you ultimatly are holding stances that lead to the destruction of france as it were. Though nation states have the potential to become things of the past, the absolute best way to ensure a culture will go away quietly into the good night, is to drive it into economic failure, which widespread curbing of immigration would likely contribute to (though it certainly in and of itself would not be a casual factor).
edit...im going home, so i may not be able to participate in our oncoming debate about the ability of the french culture to survive because of its inherent awesomeness. Assume therefore that you have won, and that i too believe france and all things french (minus the immigrants obviously) are the coolest thing since paris.
Not really....most immigrants here are American and Australian. They work. They then go home.
I want to get rid of the ghettoised ethnic sub-stratas that have encrusted themselves in our cities. Situation is very different to the UK, where most immigrants work...we have rampant crime and unemployment in the suburbs.
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:22 pm
by dinobot
Guiscard wrote:Jamie wrote:Obama has no views or opinions on anything. His whole campain has been one huge rah rah rah session. All he says is "together we can bring change to this country" Change what you retard. Say something useful. I've listened to hours of debate, and he never says anything of any real substance. He just says whatever he can to get a crowd excited. He'd make a great motivational speaker, but he'd be a joke as president. He's using a very common ploy to possibly win the democratic nomination. He's just doing whatever he can to get crowds fired up, and bring attention to himself.
You have absolutely zero input in this debate considering your last Obama post. Go edit some old posts to cover up past pwnage or something.
'Hyuck, hyuck, instead of disproving his obviously correct observations, I will reference something that only I will get. AhahahaHAHAHAHAHAghaghGHAIG I am choking on my own shit rargh!'.
Also, if retarded liberals didn't let in illegal immigrants in the first place, no one would have to deal with them now.
And by the way, Obama is retarded for saying that illegal immigrants now are the same as old legal immigrants; in the 1800's, the country was underpopulated and needed help fighting natives/England.
These illegal scum however, send most of the money they make back to Mexico and they also don't pay taxes; while this might help businesses that exploit them (Walmart) it is not helping the country. Only the rich profit from them.
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:39 pm
by btownmeggy
I just signed up to call Spanish-speaking voters in Virginia and Texas on behalf of the Obama campaign. *So excited!*
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:05 pm
by unriggable
dinobot wrote:Also, if retarded liberals didn't let in illegal immigrants in the first place, no one would have to deal with them now.
It's not like the conservatives are saying 'close the borders! Close the borders! And the liberals are like 'No! All must come in!'. Nobody, nobody, not even these 'retarded liberals' likes illegal immigration. It's just that our current process take too fucking long, sometimes taking up to a decade to get a visa, that some people see no other option. It's these fucking stupid lawmakers who can't put 2 and 2 together, who don't know that by signing free trade agreements which pay their employees shit wages that these employees will search for better homes in better places, the US being the big opportunity. So don't blame the liberals for Mexicans coming in. We've turned a blind eye to the Mexican government, and the country is falling apart. We as a country talk about our generosity but when it comes to commitment its too much for us to care.
And by the way, Obama is retarded for saying that illegal immigrants now are the same as old legal immigrants; in the 1800's, the country was underpopulated and needed help fighting natives/England.
When has he said this?
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:24 pm
by Frigidus
dinobot wrote:And by the way, Obama is retarded for saying that illegal immigrants now are the same as old legal immigrants; in the 1800's, the country was underpopulated and needed help fighting natives/England.
He didn't say that they were the same, he said that the way people treated them is the same. Namely that they're close to subhuman, as you seem to agree with when you call them "illegal scum".
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:44 pm
by Neutrino
A hypothetical for dinobot and Napoleon: say you were born in Mexico, near the US border. You probably only heard good things about the US courtesy of the entirely unbiased people who actually do the border crossings. You note other families that have sent members over the border are better off than before and you think you could probably make a better life for yourself over there. What do you do?
Now, I will be mightily suprised if your answer isn't "I'll stay because I'm just that awesome and devoted to my morals", but then you'll miss the point to satiate your ego. How can you rail against people who cross the border illegally, when, in all probability, you would do the same in the same circumstances. The hypocrasy boggles the mind.
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:49 pm
by Risktaker17
Because the press likes Obama
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:51 pm
by Frigidus
Risktaker17 wrote:Because the press likes Obama
The press? I've seen a lot of support for all the candidates...I'd say it's more that America at large likes Obama. But hey, I that's just me. Personally I'd be fine with him or McCain. Pretty much anyone beats Hillary.
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:24 pm
by dinobot
Neutrino wrote:A hypothetical for dinobot and Napoleon: say you were born in Mexico, near the US border. You probably only heard good things about the US courtesy of the entirely unbiased people who actually do the border crossings. You note other families that have sent members over the border are better off than before and you think you could probably make a better life for yourself over there. What do you do?
Now, I will be mightily suprised if your answer isn't "I'll stay because I'm just that awesome and devoted to my morals", but then you'll miss the point to satiate your ego. How can you rail against people who cross the border illegally, when, in all probability, you would do the same in the same circumstances. The hypocrasy boggles the mind.
One does not simply walk into Mordor. The same thing applies to the United States (take that how you will).
Usually Mexicans need to get some sort of mob or gang to help them across the border and somewhere relatively safe.
They are then in dept to said mob and have to send a lot of money back home or they will kill their family members.
I am not stupid enough to agree to a deal like that,.
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:22 am
by OnlyAmbrose
Frigidus wrote:Risktaker17 wrote:Because the press likes Obama
The press? I've seen a lot of support for all the candidates...I'd say it's more that America at large likes Obama. But hey, I that's just me. Personally I'd be fine with him or McCain. Pretty much anyone beats Hillary.
No, it's true- the press like Obama far more than any of the other candidates. But can you blame them? He's great on camera.
They were pretty kind to McCain, too if you ask me, I'm still trying to figure out why...
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:09 am
by Neutrino
dinobot wrote:
One does not simply walk into Mordor. The same thing applies to the United States (take that how you will).
Usually Mexicans need to get some sort of mob or gang to help them across the border and somewhere relatively safe.
They are then in dept to said mob and have to send a lot of money back home or they will kill their family members.
I am not stupid enough to agree to a deal like that,.
Your only concern is a practical one? This is a hypothetical scenario. All practical considerations can be ignored.
For the sake of argument, imagine you were taking your morning stroll past border security, when you notice all the soldiers on duty have somehow drunk themselves into insensibility. You have no family, friends or job tying you to Mexico. All that stands between you and the US is a down boomgate. What do you do?
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:14 am
by Skittles!
If I were in that position, I would probably stay in Mexico because it'll probably just be a little bit more accepting that conservative right-wing imbeciles.
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:48 am
by unriggable
dinobot wrote:They are then in dept to said mob and have to send a lot of money back home or they will kill their family members.
What the f*ck, do you have any idea what you're talking about? The fence is so easy to cross that you don't need a 'mob'. You just need a little willpower and a makeshift ladder (sometimes not even).
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:06 pm
by btownmeggy
unriggable wrote:dinobot wrote:They are then in dept to said mob and have to send a lot of money back home or they will kill their family members.
What the f*ck, do you have any idea what you're talking about? The fence is so easy to cross that you don't need a 'mob'. You just need a little willpower and a makeshift ladder (sometimes not even).
Of course, in most places there isn't a fence. Though statistics are hard to gather, it's thought that a large majority of undocumented immigrants from Mexico to the US cross the border in the Sonoran desert. (Certainly true in my anecdotal experience, with the 100 or so undocumented immigrants of my acquaintance that I know well enough that they would tell me how they crossed the border...) Some people just go, by themselves (unguided, that is), and that's certainly the deadliest method. Not many make it on foot. Most people buy spots in vans or trucks, which have a going rate of about $1000 - $1500. Most pay beforehand, but if you know the coyote (caravaner) well enough or are from near their hometown, they'll let you pay after you've been in the US for a while.
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:32 pm
by spurgistan
In his defense, I would say Dino's got all illegal immigration that doesn't have to do with Latin Americans illegally crossing the southern border, such as Chinese and their snakeheads and such. Can't forget that Latinos are not the only group that wants to live to their potential but has problems obtaining papers.
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:35 pm
by unriggable
The fence proposed, which costs upwards $4 million a mile, will only cover 700 of the 2100 mile border between the US and mexico. So really, we f*ck up again.
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:39 pm
by Snorri1234
Napoleon Ier wrote:
I want to get rid of the ghettoised ethnic sub-stratas that have encrusted themselves in our cities.
Everybody does, but getting rid of immigrants (like you actually can anyway) is not going to help. There need to be measures taken against the unemployment and crime itself.
Situation is very different to the UK, where most immigrants work...we have rampant crime and unemployment in the suburbs.
The UK has that too, but those are for the most part not immigrants I believe.
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:58 pm
by btownmeggy
spurgistan wrote:In his defense, I would say Dino's got all illegal immigration that doesn't have to do with Latin Americans illegally crossing the southern border, such as Chinese and their snakeheads and such. Can't forget that Latinos are not the only group that wants to live to their potential but has problems obtaining papers.
True. Good point.
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:41 pm
by ksslemp
unriggable wrote:dinobot wrote:They are then in dept to said mob and have to send a lot of money back home or they will kill their family members.
What the f*ck, do you have any idea what you're talking about? The fence is so easy to cross that you don't need a 'mob'. You just need a little willpower and a makeshift ladder (sometimes not even).
Do you live in a State that borders Mexico?
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:43 pm
by pimphawks70
ksslemp wrote:unriggable wrote:dinobot wrote:They are then in dept to said mob and have to send a lot of money back home or they will kill their family members.
What the f*ck, do you have any idea what you're talking about? The fence is so easy to cross that you don't need a 'mob'. You just need a little willpower and a makeshift ladder (sometimes not even).
Do you live in a State that borders Mexico?
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:38 pm
by Skittles!
I have an ideas to Americans! Instead of just complaining about Illegal immigration, just make America move away from Mexico (like, become it's own island like Australia) and then you will be able to catch all these illegal immigrants a lot easier.