Turkey and EU

[Aidan Kerr]

TURKEY IS A GAY SHITTY COUNTRY.
TOO MANY WEE SHITY COUNTRIES IN EUROPE.
TURKEY HAS NO TRADE TO OFFER ME

[Dancing Mustard]

Why do you hate Napoleon?

Because he's full of shit?


You know the score: ask an obvious question... get an obvious answer...

[Napoleon Ier]

Why do you hate Napoleon?

Because he's full of shit?


You know the score: ask an obvious question... get an obvious answer...

No, OK, I'll go with that. You feel I'm full of shit. What kind of shit, specifically?

On economics? On Philosophy? On what? In all seriousness?

[Dancing Mustard]

What kind of shit, specifically?

Malodourous Shit.



Obv.

[Napoleon Ier]

What kind of shit, specifically?

Malodourous Shit.



Obv.

You mean metaphorical shit.

[Dancing Mustard]

Negative.

[Aidan Kerr]

Turkey is a crappy country.



i hope we nuke that place.

DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE

[Dancing Mustard]

Turkey is a crappy country.



i hope we nuke that place.

DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE

In before ban.

[Jenos Ridan]

First, what is a "Thrasymachus"?

Some guy from Plato's republic.

Oh, that miserable creep. "Might makes right" if I remember correctly.

And Naps has some truelly fringe theories on the origins of his country. The ancient Gallic tribes morphing into modern French? Please; the French have never been a Celtic people, they used to be a Germanic tribe called the Franks. The Romans in Gaul had more or less eradicated most traces of the Celtic culture by the end of the first century, long after Caesar's Legions had betten Vercengetorix(sp?) at Alesia. Some time after the Battle of the Catalonian Fields near Chalons, the Franks, proceeded by their cousins the Burgundians, invaded what used to be called Gaul and the feuding Germanic lordships that rose up eventualy mutanted into what we have before us now.

I'm sure this will stick in Naps craw real good.

[ignotus]

First, what is a "Thrasymachus"?

Some guy from Plato's republic.

Oh, that miserable creep. "Might makes right" if I remember correctly.

And Naps has some truelly fringe theories on the origins of his country. The ancient Gallic tribes morphing into modern French? Please; the French have never been a Celtic people, they used to be a Germanic tribe called the Franks. The Romans in Gaul had more or less eradicated most traces of the Celtic culture by the end of the first century, long after Caesar's Legions had betten Vercengetorix(sp?) at Alesia. Some time after the Battle of the Catalonian Fields near Chalons, the Franks, proceeded by their cousins the Burgundians, invaded what used to be called Gaul and the feuding Germanic lordships that rose up eventualy mutanted into what we have before us now.

I'm sure this will stick in Naps craw real good.

Nappy, did you see this?

[Napoleon Ier]

Nappy, did you see this?

Now now iggy, if a few hours of Jenos dredging wikipedia turns up some different conclusions, then it certainly makes anything I believe a "truelly fringe theory".

After all, what historian/ethnologue/anthropologist seriously doubts that the French people "mutanded" from the Franks?

I mean, that's another display of frankly outsanding research into really erudite areas...

[Ruben Cassar]

I don't think Turkey should ever join the EU. It's not even a European country apart from the Constantinopolis area, today known as Istanbul.

Let's face it, most of the EU states don't want Turks in the EU, Turkey is just a political tool to serve as a buffer zone to the Middle East hot spot in the eyes of many EU politicians.

There are many many things that Turkey should (will not) change to make it into the EU. Human rights, Cyprus issue and the economy are just three of them.

And anyway they will never make it to become members because one country out of the 27 can veto their entry and I am sure that France or Austria (they seem to have bought the Greece vote in a way or another despite the fact they loathe each other) will veto their entry.

[Ruben Cassar]

First, what is a "Thrasymachus"?

Some guy from Plato's republic.

Oh, that miserable creep. "Might makes right" if I remember correctly.

And Naps has some truelly fringe theories on the origins of his country. The ancient Gallic tribes morphing into modern French? Please; the French have never been a Celtic people, they used to be a Germanic tribe called the Franks. The Romans in Gaul had more or less eradicated most traces of the Celtic culture by the end of the first century, long after Caesar's Legions had betten Vercengetorix(sp?) at Alesia. Some time after the Battle of the Catalonian Fields near Chalons, the Franks, proceeded by their cousins the Burgundians, invaded what used to be called Gaul and the feuding Germanic lordships that rose up eventualy mutanted into what we have before us now.

I'm sure this will stick in Naps craw real good.

France today is an amalgam of many cultures and races. Germanic, Celtic, Latin, Arab and African.

Napoleon himself was Latin (Italian) not "French"! In fact his real name was Napoleone Buonaparte...changed to Napoleon Bonaparte to be better accepted by the French. I must also admit that I deeply admire Napoleon's strategic and military genius.

[Jenos Ridan]

And Naps has some truelly fringe theories on the origins of his country. The ancient Gallic tribes morphing into modern French? Please; the French have never been a Celtic people, they used to be a Germanic tribe called the Franks. The Romans in Gaul had more or less eradicated most traces of the Celtic culture by the end of the first century, long after Caesar's Legions had betten Vercengetorix(sp?) at Alesia. Some time after the Battle of the Catalonian Fields near Chalons, the Franks, proceeded by their cousins the Burgundians, invaded what used to be called Gaul and the feuding Germanic lordships that rose up eventualy mutanted into what we have before us now.

I'm sure this will stick in Naps craw real good.

Nappy, did you see this?

He did. And Wiki is hardly a credable source of information with regard to history. Unlike Naps, I read Books, which I find at something called a Library and I cross-check one book with another until I see the big picture. Until Wikipedia somehow magically disproves hundreds of years of recorded history, Naps holds fringe theories.

[Jenos Ridan]

And in less than the hours Naps proposed that I'd need to scour Wiki for counter-points......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_France
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_France

Naps, shut up.

[Napoleon Ier]

And Naps has some truelly fringe theories on the origins of his country. The ancient Gallic tribes morphing into modern French? Please; the French have never been a Celtic people, they used to be a Germanic tribe called the Franks. The Romans in Gaul had more or less eradicated most traces of the Celtic culture by the end of the first century, long after Caesar's Legions had betten Vercengetorix(sp?) at Alesia. Some time after the Battle of the Catalonian Fields near Chalons, the Franks, proceeded by their cousins the Burgundians, invaded what used to be called Gaul and the feuding Germanic lordships that rose up eventualy mutanted into what we have before us now.

I'm sure this will stick in Naps craw real good.

Nappy, did you see this?

He did. And Wiki is hardly a credable source of information with regard to history. Unlike Naps, I read Books, which I find at something called a Library and I cross-check one book with another until I see the big picture. Until Wikipedia somehow magically disproves hundreds of years of recorded history, Naps holds fringe theories.

One might question the "cre-da-bility" of these "books".

Right, so, so far the French are ethnically German (naturally, this explains why French, Occitan, Picard and so forth aren't considred romance languages), but the fact that any places actually in France sound German, make them belong to the Reich. I see...

[Snorri1234]

Naps, you know the difference between German and germanic, right?

Besides, Jenos does have a point in that the origins of the modern french are seriously influenced by germanic tribes among others. The problem here is that France is a big country and they could easily be descendant from 2 big sides at the same time. You can't honestly claim france is mostly gallic when you compare south-france to north-france.


Anyway, this is unimportant. We've only decided that taking over other places is bad since 60 years or something. Staking claims about parts belonging to you because they did so 500 years ago is silly. Does Spain have a claim on the netherlands? Does France have a claim on Wallonië?

[Khuntlipz]

I don't think Turkey should ever join the EU. It's not even a European country apart from the Constantinopolis area, today known as Istanbul.

Let's face it, most of the EU states don't want Turks in the EU, Turkey is just a political tool to serve as a buffer zone to the Middle East hot spot in the eyes of many EU politicians.

There are many many things that Turkey should (will not) change to make it into the EU. Human rights, Cyprus issue and the economy are just three of them.

And anyway they will never make it to become members because one country out of the 27 can veto their entry and I am sure that France or Austria (they seem to have bought the Greece vote in a way or another despite the fact they loathe each other) will veto their entry.

I'm liking you Ruben.

Good opinions, good football team...you've got life sussed out already.

Good work.

[Snorri1234]

I don't think Turkey should ever join the EU. It's not even a European country apart from the Constantinopolis area, today known as Istanbul.

Let's face it, most of the EU states don't want Turks in the EU, Turkey is just a political tool to serve as a buffer zone to the Middle East hot spot in the eyes of many EU politicians.

There are many many things that Turkey should (will not) change to make it into the EU. Human rights, Cyprus issue and the economy are just three of them.

And anyway they will never make it to become members because one country out of the 27 can veto their entry and I am sure that France or Austria (they seem to have bought the Greece vote in a way or another despite the fact they loathe each other) will veto their entry.

I'm liking you Ruben.

Good opinions, good football team...you've got life sussed out already.

Good work.

I have to agree (not liking it, but still) with you. Turkey will not change to meet the requirements in at least a long while, and with them moving back from secularism I don't see it's going to be likely they ever will.

I don't particularly care that most of Turkey isn't in Europe, but their inability to do what we require is bad. Cyprus and human rights are essential here, the economy wouldn't really stop people as it hasn't stopped the EU from letting countries with even worse economies join.

[Khuntlipz]

But snorri though, even if turkey were to offer their arses on a plate, would this mean progress for us continental wogs?

Use that blonde european head of yours, and ponder whether a nuu laybor melting pot of self division is going to serve as a betterment to our already troubled well being?

We have problems of our own already to iron out, let alone this...christ, I know the netherlands does snorri..

As I always say to myself in these matters..."what would the bloody french do?" and I'll tell you what, their unity and self preservation talks.

I for one, know that being english gives me a divine right to moan, and not do anything about it, since i am in this respect a pillock. I moan, moan and try to stoke revoloution, yet I and the english public are the biggest bunch of pussy massochists going......we just fucking accept our demise now..and it makes me sick to think this.

I once cared...as a young man, I should fight...but no, I'm just moving over to australia instead...

On a bright note though, at least I'm going to marry skoffin, and teach her who the daddy is.

[Napoleon Ier]

Naps, you know the difference between German and germanic, right?

Besides, Jenos does have a point in that the origins of the modern french are seriously influenced by germanic tribes among others. The problem here is that France is a big country and they could easily be descendant from 2 big sides at the same time. You can't honestly claim france is mostly gallic when you compare south-france to north-france.


Anyway, this is unimportant. We've only decided that taking over other places is bad since 60 years or something. Staking claims about parts belonging to you because they did so 500 years ago is silly. Does Spain have a claim on the netherlands? Does France have a claim on Wallonië?

No, the problem here snorri, is that whatsisface is pasting his briefly summarised wikipedia/french history for dummies shit and passing it off as fact. Y'see, what he does, is state a load of completely correct and extremely basic history your average primary schoolkid would know, as if he's some kind of Guiscard-to-the-max, then state a load of utterly invented bullshit and expect the truth of the former statement to attest to the veracity of the latter. Such a logical fallacy may more or less seem attractive to some, but for anyone with a rudimentary understanding of French history, it's laughable.

The Romans, it's true, took over. OK, so far so good: but only a few tens of thousands traders, politicians and soldiers marred the French blood-pool. The Franks constituted no more than 5% of the population at any given time in any given area, the statistic is from studies of Frankish influence in Paris The South remained more or less (ethnically) untounched by the Franks. From then on, only (comparatively) minor changes have taken place in France's ethnic make-up: until the 60s, when the Mohammeddan hordes began to disembark.

Even if France's ethnicity is slightly dilute, so what? How does this challenge the issue of the appartanence of Alsace-Lorraine?

His argument is summarised by "teh Starsbourg sounds germanicky lol", without any reference to the actual etymology of the names, nor of the idea of the "natural borders" of France, one wonders where he gets his claim from. Is he saying that the are is historically Germanic? I disspelled that. Then he tells me that anyone contesting that France is Germanic in the first place is on the "fringe". That's pure, unadulterated bollocks. Even Iggy had a good laugh at it

My position is easily summarised: cross the Rhine, your ass is mine.

[Snorri1234]

My position is easily summarised: cross the Rhine, your ass is mine.

You're saying that belgium and the south of the netherlands is part of France? Because that is just silly.

Also:

The South remained more or less (ethnically) untounched by the Franks.

True, which is part of the reason why I think this whole argument is bollocks. The genetic make-up of south-france has more in common with italy than with the northern part of France I believe.

It's not that France's ethnicity is slightly diluted, it's that technically it's diluted in all places. France is the centre of europe, so basically any culture or tribe mingled with them at some point in time. You might as well make claims on any area surrounding france.

Bottom line: France shouldn't make claims on any "french" parts of germany, and Germany shouldn't make any claims on "German" parts of France. Jenos is an idiot for stating that parts should be returned, because the whole idea we got 60 years ago is that any areas that were already conquered in ancient times should stay that way, and any areas that were conquered after that deal should be returned. This is why people are saying Tibet should become it's own country again, because China took it a little too late.

[Napoleon Ier]

My position is easily summarised: cross the Rhine, your ass is mine.

You're saying that belgium and the south of the netherlands is part of France? Because that is just silly.

Also:

The South remained more or less (ethnically) untounched by the Franks.

True, which is part of the reason why I think this whole argument is bollocks. The genetic make-up of south-france has more in common with italy than with the northern part of France I believe.
.

Your facetious Rhineland comment aside, you believe wrong. Culturally, France's regions have distinct identities rooted in a common germano-celtic heritage. Alsace-Lorraine, parts of Belgium, Switzerland and who could forget Québec, all belong by virtue of such right, to France. Jenos' doesn't know what he's talking about. He can't make his mind up between civic and organic nationalism nor what criteria he applies to determine any appartenance of nationhood, or whether he's granting existential, or metaphysical to nation-states.

[Snorri1234]

Your facetious Rhineland comment aside, you believe wrong.

Why put them aside? According to you, anything below the rhine is yours. Which includes quite a large part of what people really think is theirs.

Culturally, France's regions have distinct identities rooted in a common germano-celtic heritage.

True.

Alsace-Lorraine, parts of Belgium, Switzerland and who could forget Québec, all belong by virtue of such right, to France.

Bullshit. That right doesn't exist. I'm not saying those parts don't have a french culture/ethnic history, but that doesn't mean they should be a part of france.


However, if all you're saying is that Jenos is bullshitting and parts of france shouldn't be returned to germany, then I'm with you.

[Napoleon Ier]

...double post...-->