Once Upon A Killer Mafia (14/17) A Writers Block:Endgame

[strike wolf]

I'll try to condense it down into the more important points in another post later but I felt it important to at least present a full picture on my thoughts about Whatsausage. Including both what I read as town and what I read as scum and the changing opinion I had while reading through everything.

[dd515087]

Hotshot53 (1) - Crasp
Streaker (1) - Pancakemix
aage (2) - Hotshot53, Streaker
Zivel (1) - mtamburini
Whatsausage (1) - Storrzerg
dd515087 (2) - Zivel, ArmyofGod

Interestng... there's no real wagon building up. Seems to me like scum votes are scattered or they have not voted at all... as yesterday was very scum bandwagon filled. Now, mtam and dd are virtually confirmed same alignment therefore:
6. aage
8.Ultrasplot
10.Whatsausage
12.Anamainiacks
14.dd515187
16.Strikewolf
17. TFO

Highlighted here is a potential mafia team which actually makes quite a bit of sense. Streaker's claim of blocking me is weak as I had claimed no Night action Day One. dd and mtam could be scum lover and reviver (hence why mtam's power is unlimited). Whatsausage is yet to claim (don't yet... no need) but also pushed me for lynch.

I have said multiple times that I think Streaker and whatsausage are scum. So for this to be true we would have to be either the dumbest mafia team in the world or really bold.
Also I don't think that vote count is right. I have a vote on Streaker I believe.

The interesting thing is that HotShot and Streaker quite nearly counterclaimed each other, Streaker potentially hoping for a HotShot lynch. DD has been shying from proving his commuter role (which makes little to no sense... HotShot is claimed jk and if he doesn't guard you next night we have confirmed scum...) mtam has been... well... crazy. ALTHOUGH he argued in my favor D1, his argument was so ill-presented that it had an almost negative effect - all it did was give him pretext for not pushing Ultra the next day.

I can't prove my commuter role tonight because I can't use it. I will more than gladly prove it N3. If someone had targeted me last night they would have the proof. No one has come out and said they targeted me last night though.

Now what do all of these have in common? They were on the initial Ultra wagon and the AoG wagon, with the exception of mtam, who called for an AoG lynch and then everyone took ex post facto evidence without consideration of why he pushed initially. At day end the quadruplet's votes were all on what are now confirmed town by death. None of them made extremely insightful posts.

Assuming this is true, the votes are 1 aage; 1 Zivel; 2 yet to cast. I suspect we will see a similar strategy today to gather a mislynch: Streaker pushes aage (he has already done this but the wagon lost its steam); mtam pushes Zivel until he slips (not happened yet); and the other two join on the wagon, just like before.

Consider this conjecture and see if it fits together well.

First part: Yes I voted you and AoG D1. I thought you both had terrible and scummy play
The rest: I don't even understand

[dd515087]

OK, I am going to express my case on dd5 because I said I would, and I still read him scum but information is moving fast in this game and I am a little behind

Day 1:
Rides the wagon on Ultra and tunnels him pretty bad, even after the lovers claim.

He claims lover third, with a claim of Romeo and Juliet and only being able to talk at night. Easy claim to make up, weird that they can only talk at night. Convenient for a mafia claim. Scum pair is third to claim, why would he claim? Well my guess is he was going to try and get an Ultra lynch, throw some confusion into the mix and try and prove that Ultra was the scum pair. He also gets a scum bud that he can claim town with.

Yeah I'm kind of done talking about my claim and my flavor. I didn't make it up and I don't really give a shit if you think I did. I have talked about this enough. Take my claim for whatever you want. I have told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

New thought: what if all of us who have claimed lovers are town and this is just an evil twist rishaed is throwing on us... We could all be screwed
I'm tired and going to bed, I have gone through almost everything. Here are some general reads:

This was his first list and does not really have any information attached to the reads. Safely played. Note he has Virus, AoG and Ultra all pegged as scummy, this is after the claims. He seems pretty certain that there is a scum pair and he has pegged Ultra/Virus

Deleted the list, but kept the beginning. I say right there that we could all be town, I am not certain at all that there could be a scum pair. As for virus/Ultra/AoG their play was crap and scummy D1. I have said this time and time again and that is why I had them pegged as scummy. I was wrong. Sorry I'm not perfect.

He then changes his vote to virus, thinking he can now get a two for one lynch. He says he has doubt over the play of Ultra and Virus but nowhere does he actually make a case. The best I can get is:

As for Ultra and virus... Did you skim through everything? They have been read as scum for numerous reasons: poor reads, weird votes, calling each other scum and then coming out as lovers... Do I need to say more? I will go back and quote everything if necessary, but if you read through the last 4ish pages you will find everything on them.

Which is basically sheeping others arguments. He has not made any interesting or original posts thus far in the game.

Two for one lynch on people I thought were scummy? Yeah I'd take that any day of the week. As for my argument? I don't feel like going back and retyping things that have already been said, my time is a little more valuable than that. So yes basically sheeping, but do you think I care? (The answer is no btw)

Then he questions PCM after my post about PCM. Sheeping most of the questions and backing up me and storr with little real new information.

He still has Ultra and Virus pegged as scum and then turns his attention to AoG.

This is about the time that Strike has a go at him, and he doesnt really respond well, claims commuter with little pressure and only 4? votes against him.
...
Swtiches vote to AoG.

Baiscally his day one consisted of him sheeping the early wagons and then pushing Ultra, Virus and AoG, all three are now very townie. He was never the lead and was always letting someone else take the fall. Both strike and PCM put some good pressure on him but him being a lover saved him from that lynch I would say. Lucky he claimed it.

In day 2 he has pretty much done even less, sheeping along with what ever wagon comes along.

ALSO, somewhat related (and this goes for everyone)... but HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW WHO MY LOVER IS??? IT IS VERY OBVIOUS

This is the post that got me really interested though. He is basically claiming Mtam is his lover here.

Thanks for the history lesson. Basically what I do when I play mafia is try and reason out who is town and who is scum and then vote for them (the whole point of the game). I'm sorry I never took "the lead" on any of these people. Except for the fact that I was the FIRST GODDAMN PERSON TO PUT A SCUM READ ON AoG. No I did not vote him, because (as I have said many times) Ultra/Virus was still the hot topic. (Times I've had to bring that up: over 10 probably)

I never said that. I would say that at the very beginning the mod said it may be unbalanced. I would also say that for all we know there are only 2 scum and the game is actually really balanced. Unlikely, but none of us know.

So you did say it....

I'm so confused by this. I said "I never said that" and then you're point is that I did? WTF??? Where did any semblance of logic go in this comment? Why is this even relevant?

1.The other reviver wasn't a reviver in the same sense that mtam is claiming.
2. Mtam read virus as town all along. Why would he cause confusion if he believed this?
3. Lets do some math: You believe mtam can save a townie (making him townie). Lovers are confirmed the same alignment by the mod. Therefore, what is the logical conclusion here? Oh guess what, I'm townie.

Why did you need it to be said flat out that mtam and I are lovers? You and your scum buddies don't want to mess up with your NK? Everyone else had pretty much accepted it at this point. Hmm... Scummy

Also you changed your vote to streaker and then to me within an hour or so. Why the sudden flip?

1. it was pretty close, not a solid case but something I would of thought would of got Mtam interested. But he completely ignored it. The fact that they are different is interesting. Why does Mtam get a different and more powerful role than Virus who is basically in the same position as you. Infact you are more powerful than Ultra as well and I am happy to say that you are both more powerful than my lover and I. Why the discrepancy? Doesn't seem fair.
2. Because he should of reconsidered his read, his read was based on all lovers are town, which is nice and safe for you two. Someone claims something like that should of made him at least reconsider what he was reading.
3. You math goes out the window if I think you are both scum. Yes if Mtam is town then you are town, and if you dont get lynched then we will know if you are town tomorrow anyways.

Storr, if Mtam is alive tonight can you please consider watching him to see if he has any visitors. I would guess that any visitor to Mtam tonight would be a mafia roleblocker trying to set us up to lynch these two.

1. I don't know man, these aren't questions I can answer
2. I'm not mtam so I don't know what his thoughts were
3. But you do think mtam is town (or at least did at that point). Which is why my math works. If you think mtam and I are both scum then sure it doesn't, but do you think we are both scum?

[StorrZerg]

is it possible the mafia reside within

whatsausage
pcm
animaniacks
crasp
streaker

hmmm...

[dd515087]

is it possible the mafia reside within

whatsausage
pcm
animaniacks
crasp
streaker

hmmm...

I'm getting much stronger scum vibes from the ones I highlighted in red. I think the lynch should come down to these three. Crasp needs to come back into the game

[pancakemix]

[quote=Storr"]You know how i play, you know from experience what happens when you push me, when I'm town. I fight tooth and nail, every step of the way. So don't complain that you don't have a life, when you start pushing me, knowing i throw everything back, including the kitchen sink. This is a game, a game. I don't want to be ruining peoples experience, no more than i want my experience ruined. As you have noticed, when called out for insulting, doing something bothersome etc. I try to make changes to better help the atmosphere. Note, how i'm presenting cases, using less "confusing" color, notice i don't personally attack a player that much any more. (yes i will still attack posts since that is different). So, i respectfully ask that you stop personally insulting me. [/quote]

Except that it's frustrating when I state I don't know how many times that I'm going to be limited and you complain that I don't make a mother of all posts every hour. The way I play this game takes time. Lots of it. Time I don't have. So when you not only complain that I don't make posts, but don't even bother responding to the ones I do make (and you still haven't!), I'm going to get frustrated and probably cuss you out. If you're going to ask me to not insult you, I expect to to show me at least some modicum of respect.

As for the ultra quote, the rest of your post was about AoG and I took it as such, which makes your lack of attribution only slightly disingenuous (especially because you asked me to do the same earlier. Again, the mutual respect thing).

As for flavor, don't ask. Interpret. That's the best you'll get.

Guise, dd's a dumb lynch. Don't do it.

Ugh I don't have time to make a full post right now. I might try to get to it when I get home tonight, but I'm at Strike's whatsausage case atm.

[StorrZerg]

Except that it's frustrating when I state I don't know how many times that I'm going to be limited and you complain that I don't make a mother of all posts every hour. The way I play this game takes time. Lots of it. Time I don't have. So when you not only complain that I don't make posts, but don't even bother responding to the ones I do make (and you still haven't!), I'm going to get frustrated and probably cuss you out. If you're going to ask me to not insult you, I expect to to show me at least some modicum of respect.

I harass a lot of people about activity, i don't think i'm singling you out, or making that many jabs about your activity as you might think. The last one in particular was an attack at others for failing to look at you for help in pushing me. They showed 0 interest in your push against me, it was less of a call out on your activity.

I think i've responded to all your posts lately that has content pertaining to the game, and trying to avoid responding to items that are not relevant to the game / strike up more explosive reaction for no reason. (not egging you on etc). And again, the stuff i still haven't responded to, i likely won't respond to unless its pointed out directly by you, or by someone else. So if you still feel they are important, either just simply quote what you want me to respond to, link the post, or ask someone else to help you out.

As for the ultra quote, the rest of your post was about AoG and I took it as such, which makes your lack of attribution only slightly disingenuous (especially because you asked me to do the same earlier. Again, the mutual respect thing).

Guise, dd's a dumb lynch. Don't do it.

can agree, dd5 dumb lynch.

[Zivel]

is it possible the mafia reside within

whatsausage
pcm
animaniacks
crasp
streaker

hmmm...

I am willing to see how this plays out

Unvote

How many votes does WS have at the moment?

[UltrasPlot]

Storr, lynching one of those (where there is little to no controversy) denies of information if we mislynch. I propose we go ahead with someone which is actually controversial, rather than WS who hasn't polarized things.

[StorrZerg]

We have information. And we have a claimed reviver linked to dd5.

Im telling you that list of 5 maybe aage are the only reasonable option to lynch and shoot.

So you should read the cases on whatsausage and determine your opinion on the matter so you can either push him, or defend him.

[StorrZerg]

@whatsausage I strongly advise you to start ramping up your defense as well as provide who you would prefer to lynch and why.

@hotshot where are the town reads...

[kwanton]

I think if we approach this rationally and use a discerning eye it is obvious who the scum is.

For letter-writers like myself, Skoffin is a gift that keeps on giving. I never grow tired writing about Skoffin's ostentatious flimflams because they so clearly demonstrate Skoffin's desire to waffle on all the issues. But first, I'm going to jump ahead a bit and talk in general terms about how from my seemingly daily argy-bargy with her judgmental collaborators about whether clever one-liners are a valid substitute for actual thinking, I've come to the conclusion that we have come full-circle. Then, I'll back up and fill in some of the details. Okay, so to start with the general stuff, Skoffin is really speaking through her hat when she says that everyone with a different set of beliefs from hers is going to get a one-way ticket to Hell. The logical consequences of that are clear: Skoffin's view is that she was chosen by God as the trustee of His wishes and desires. That's her message in a nutshell, and her flacks find themselves judged largely on their willingness to echo it. Of course, such stupid lummoxes also fail to see that Skoffin has stated that she would never dream of “solving” all our problems by talking them to death. One clear inference from that statement—an inference that is never really disavowed—is that she is a paragon of morality and wisdom. Now that's just pro-censorship.

Craven revanchism has come to occupy a louche place in the national dialogue. But let's not lose perspective. It's really not bloody-mindedness that compels me to clarify and correct some of the inaccuracies present in Skoffin's strictures. It's my sense of responsibility to you, the reader. Lastly, escapism has its stronghold among the worst kinds of lamebrained, jaded dissemblers there are.

Vote Skoffin

[strike wolf]

Okay. That put a smile on my face.

[Zivel]

Okay. That put a smile on my face.

It just confused the shit out of me

[Streaker]

Can someone explain why DD is a bad lynch? It seems for granted to some of you.
Furthermore, I still want to lynch Aage...

[crasp]

is it possible the mafia reside within

whatsausage
pcm
animaniacks
crasp
streaker

hmmm...

I'm getting much stronger scum vibes from the ones I highlighted in red. I think the lynch should come down to these three. Crasp needs to come back into the game

[crasp]

Sorry guys meant to copy above not submit. I am really struggling to keep up just now because of work. hopefully things will relax a bit now but if not I will ask to be replaced.
I have been managing to keep up on the reading but ananlysing and posting is a different matter. The way i see this is that certain people are deliberately fogging this game and the fact that I have managed to go so long without posting and not coming to peoples attention proves it.
My vote was on hotshot because according to Storr this would reveal streaker who i have has as scum almost since the start of the game and nothing he has done so far has changed my mind. i believe mafia did not get a kill last night and something else happened. This should reveal tonight and will almost certainly confirm the alignment of at least one player. i will be about for the next couple of days so my participation will increase but just in case i am moving my vote to Vote Streaker.

[pancakemix]

K I'm back.

On strike's case: It's very hard to see how he reached his conclusion. There's the pressuring of ultra, but a lot of Strike's statements are "well, that's not so bad" or "nothing wrong here" or "I like this post". I went in fully expecting to be convinced, but I don't really see anything that warranted such a tome, especially when strike actually said so little. That said, I'd add his push on dd to that (though he's since back off of that), making it two counts pressuring basically confirmed townies. I'm still not really moved.

Except for the fact that I was the FIRST GODDAMN PERSON TO PUT A SCUM READ ON AoG.

I would be wary of citing this as a plus.

I harass a lot of people about activity, i don't think i'm singling you out, or making that many jabs about your activity as you might think. The last one in particular was an attack at others for failing to look at you for help in pushing me. They showed 0 interest in your push against me, it was less of a call out on your activity.

One callout is too many when I have a stated absence, especially when you say I'm scum/should be shot every other post.

I think i've responded to all your posts lately that has content pertaining to the game, and trying to avoid responding to items that are not relevant to the game / strike up more explosive reaction for no reason. (not egging you on etc). And again, the stuff i still haven't responded to, i likely won't respond to unless its pointed out directly by you, or by someone else. So if you still feel they are important, either just simply quote what you want me to respond to, link the post, or ask someone else to help you out.

Here

God, I love you kwan.

Can someone explain why DD is a bad lynch? It seems for granted to some of you.
Furthermore, I still want to lynch Aage...

Because he's town.

[pancakemix]

Bee tee dubs, that's prolly gonna be my last post of the day unless there's another extension. I'm confident in my Streaker vote, so there it shall stay. I hope to be back at full strength for tomorrow.

[aage]

Lynching DD is dumb if mtam can prove his role tonight. Assuming all lovers have the same alignment, mtam giving his life to rez a dead townie will prove dd's alignment without a shadow of a doubt. Lynching DD will only result in getting info we would otherwise have gotten anyway. Let mtam die to a resurrection, rather than waste a lynch on it.
If at all possible I'd prefer the town redirector role to come back (if someone can re-sub into that role, since aog took nark's.. OH LOOK ITS KWANTON) rather than the otherwise useless lover.

Ultra, I don't get why you want to lynch controversial people rather than scummy people, and I don't get why that excludes Whatsausage as a lynch. You have more than enough suitable targets for tonight, including me apparently, so shoot those. We're not going really going to get 100% scum guarantee on people off any lynch, so I suggest you shoot to kill in order to provide that much-needed info for tomorrow's lynch. If we do end up lynching Sausage and he flips scum, you can look at the people who didn't want to lynch him.


PCM's remark on the Strike case echoes my thoughts. There's only something there if you're expecting to find it. Which Storr did, I do not doubt, but that doesn't make it a strong case.

whatsausage
pcm
animaniacks
crasp
streaker

You discount Strike easily after your case on him, did something change?
Seems slightly easy to assume everyone who targeted Mtam was town - not all mafia have killing actions. It would be a massive coincidence.

Currently I favour a Streaker lynch because (a) his claim is sketchy and (b) he wants me dead. Might even be the same reasons he has to vote for me.
On top of that, I read him as town after D1 because I agreed with his actions against Ultra. I do not agree with his D2 follow up where he completely distances himself from those cases. Ultra and Virus were scummy D1, no reason to distance yourself unless you are afraid of getting heat.

[rishaed]

Vote Count:

Hotshot53 (1) - Crasp
Streaker (2) - Pancakemix, dd515087
aage (2) - Hotshot53, Streaker
Whatsausage (3) - mtamburini, Storrzerg, Strikewolf
dd515087 (2) - Ultrasplot, ArmyofGod
Skoffin (1)-Kwanton
With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Deadline is the 23rd.
With This Votecount Whatsausage will die tomorrow.

[crasp]

I had changed my vot.
unvote Hotshote, vote streaker.

Who tf is Skoffin and Kwanton

[Streaker]

Ok just lynch me. Nobody is even bothering to make a case on my (part for 1 and are just wagoning me shamelesly) so I won't bother defending anymore. I'm surprised this hasn't been noticed more.
Tomorrow look into all who are wagoning me without a reason. Also didn't lie about Ultra block.

Kthx

[strike wolf]

Lynching DD is dumb if mtam can prove his role tonight. Assuming all lovers have the same alignment, mtam giving his life to rez a dead townie will prove dd's alignment without a shadow of a doubt. Lynching DD will only result in getting info we would otherwise have gotten anyway. Let mtam die to a resurrection, rather than waste a lynch on it.
If at all possible I'd prefer the town redirector role to come back (if someone can re-sub into that role, since aog took nark's.. OH LOOK ITS KWANTON) rather than the otherwise useless lover.

If Kwanton sticks around though we still need a replacement for TFO as well don't we?

Ultra, I don't get why you want to lynch controversial people rather than scummy people, and I don't get why that excludes Whatsausage as a lynch. You have more than enough suitable targets for tonight, including me apparently, so shoot those. We're not going really going to get 100% scum guarantee on people off any lynch, so I suggest you shoot to kill in order to provide that much-needed info for tomorrow's lynch. If we do end up lynching Sausage and he flips scum, you can look at the people who didn't want to lynch him.

I think he's suggesting to lynch them to get the information from who stands up to them and who does not. Get an idea of the sides to that wagon.

PCM's remark on the Strike case echoes my thoughts. There's only something there if you're expecting to find it. Which Storr did, I do not doubt, but that doesn't make it a strong case.

I'll post the condensed version tonight. I wasn't so much trying to sway everyone as give a full view of the information. Mainly the case I have against Whatsausage is despite seeming more town at the beginning, I feel his initial vote against Ultra D1 felt forced, he never really even acknowledged talks about PCM and Storr day 1 which were fairly prevalent and his only comments about the AoG case were mostly directed at Mtam and not anything that AoG did. At the end of Day 1, his vote against Virus felt like it was left on as an afterthought not a strong push. Day 2, he went hard on the "Ultra isn't confirmed town route" which I still view as kind of a distraction, he never really weighed in on the case against you or Hotshot. His comments in that regard were mostly that because of game mechanics, one of you was probably scum and the other one of you saved MTam. He never gave a reason for which one he preferred and instead pressured Streaker but even on that he never really felt like he pressed that hard against streaker. He later went on to vote DD who I feel is the scummier push right now for reasons you mentioned above. Finally, a part of mafia is determining who is just inactive and who is either scummarining or inactive scum who make bad plays because of their limited time. I am starting to feel that WhatSausage is the latter. Compared to other inactives in this game who have generally tried to make some kind of push against someone, he has been much more reserved and even DD who was his strongest push didn't feel like he was adding anything new or even pressing that strongly. His early and mid day 1 play did seem townie to me but that is the time where it is easier to hide.

whatsausage
pcm
animaniacks
crasp
streaker

You discount Strike easily after your case on him, did something change?

Noting this as well.

Seems slightly easy to assume everyone who targeted Mtam was town - not all mafia have killing actions. It would be a massive coincidence.

Currently I favour a Streaker lynch because (a) his claim is sketchy and (b) he wants me dead. Might even be the same reasons he has to vote for me.
On top of that, I read him as town after D1 because I agreed with his actions against Ultra. I do not agree with his D2 follow up where he completely distances himself from those cases. Ultra and Virus were scummy D1, no reason to distance yourself unless you are afraid of getting heat.

It does seem easy but the one I think most likely sent there as scum would be Storr (To observe what town roles might visit him) and my feelings towards him right now are somewhat tied up in how WhatSausage flips (If WS flips town/lone scum, I feel it more likely that Storr is scum; if WS is mafia, I feel it more likely that storr is town). I'll disagree with a streaker lynch. I can't really see him coming out and saying "hey I don't think a role blocker and a Jailkeeper would be on the same side" unless he actually believed it town or scum. That said, I might reread but I would need more time than I actually have at this point.

Mtam, does your ability override being killed by other players? I have a follow up suggestion but I need to know this answer first.

[aage]

vote streaker

@Strike
"The Strike case" referred to Storr's post against you ten pages back, maybe more.