Chris Nolan Mafia - Game Over [ARCHIVE]

[safariguy5]

Well bottom line is that we now know that we have a SKer of some sort. I'd guess third party, but that's not set in stone. It's still a useful death.

[Commander9]

Well bottom line is that we now know that we have a SKer of some sort. I'd guess third party, but that's not set in stone. It's still a useful death.

Joker could easily be mafia, to be honest. Also, the only way I could see this as a useful death is that we'll lose a troll, but a cop generally is a big loss.

[safariguy5]

Well bottom line is that we now know that we have a SKer of some sort. I'd guess third party, but that's not set in stone. It's still a useful death.

Joker could easily be mafia, to be honest. Also, the only way I could see this as a useful death is that we'll lose a troll, but a cop generally is a big loss.

True, but remember this was a daykill. Give mafia a daykill+ a nightkill would be really powerful in a 11 person game. And him not being town-aligned makes me wonder what incentive he had to clear any players or accuse them.

[VioIet]

Vote Commander9

He has been very coy, very cautious, in the background - never actually placing votes but always trying to encourage pressure on others to vote.

.......i toooooold yoooouuuu i waaas noooot maaaafiaaaa.......

I'm sorry to say, but you brought this yourself by doing what you did. Your role is a loss, but (assuming it was a DK and it definitely looks like it was Joker, who did this) you've talked in yourself into this.

After all considered, I'm suggesting that probably pressuring Nag is the best thing that we can do.

With this post I found it very scummy, it is like he is trying to push edocsil or ficoal to continue on their votes on me so we can argue and go around in circles yet he won't actually start things off by actually voting me, he just wants to light the firelighter and sit back and watch the fire begin.

In fact commander, the onus is on you... go on then present a case against me... I'd like to hear it. Shield dropped hints of being a cop back on page 3 that is why I unvoted him. I voted him initially because he came accross as EXTREMELY scummy, why would I not vote someone who makes such OBVIOUS scumtells. Later when it was obvious he was being deliberatley beliigerent and trolling I avoided his bandwagon but of course others got involved... though apparently not you, you come out as having apparently defending him.. yet I don't really see any defence of him by you? Edocsil and fircoal did defend him at first, that much is clear, but I don't see a comment by you as having defending him other than reiterating points made by edocsil constantly.

What info would lynching the rookie get us? Shit, maybe we would get lucky and he is scum, but you all know the odds of him being scum are no more likely then any other person picked at random. I dislike how Nag looks to waste the entire day chasing down a rookie who simply didn't know better, rather then spend the valuable time hunting. IMO anyone who wants to waste a day should be hung from the closest tree.

100% agreed. I find that BW on him scummy and while I can understand what Safari/Nag said about pointing scumtells and jumping on them, jumping on a newbie for making a couple of scumtells that pretty much all of the noobs make regardless of their affiliations is just as scummy (if not more) in my book.

Thanks again for coming to my rescue. Don't worry, I've learned my lesson. I won't do this again tomorrow (day 2), so you won't have to give me special newbie treatment.

Well, what about starting to play and learn today?

To be fair, he feels too safe. As much as I hate, vote shield.

In fact you were the third person at this point on his bandwagon, once it suddenly became OK to pressurise the newbie and rookie as you so called him so by your own admission you were trolling. This also when he had made a hint that he was potentially a cop that made me unvote and I also pointed that he was obviously trolling.

Following on from shield's death you then try to make it appear as if he was one of the guys who defended him in order to make yourself look good:

whooo daaares quoooote meeee?

I can't believe I actually defended you. Time to blacklist, I guess.

I can't believe that I am about to semi-justify commie, as that is so unlike me, but I do have to say that he always plays this way. I am responding to this part btw

"He has been very coy, very cautious, in the background - never actually placing votes but always trying to encourage pressure on others to vote."

@ Nag

1. OMGUS vote for the reason that I've pointed earlier on Day 1 and just a couple of posts ago. Nice.

2. How have I been cautious? I've been pretty much as aggressive as I normally am.

3. Firelighter on you? I responded before that I've founded you scummy before and I just continued that thought.

4. I defended him at first and afterwards I switched my thoughts when he continued the same BS. I don't know where I've said taht I defended him and that "OOhh, I'm soo righteous." Also, if I'll get enough time, I'll post a case late tonight (US time) or tomorrow.

5. FFS, he said that he didn't even know he was a cop. He didn't drop any intentional hints that he was a cop...

so by your own admission you were scummy EBWOP

Can you explain this?

1. 2. 3. No OMGUS vote, cautious and firelighter because you're talking about how you'd like to see more pressure on me but you don't actually have the balls to put a vote on me yourself. You'd rather see a mud-slinging match happening again between me and edocsil and sit back and watch it all happen. Remind you of anything?

4. The quote at the bottom, I never said you were being righteous about it, I am trying to point out that the way you say "I can't believe I defended you" seems to give off an aura of I was the guy who stood up for you, I was the guy who protected you from the vicious noob hunter nagerous.

5. He attempted to justify his no lynch by hinting that he would have more information to go off on day 2. The only noobs that vote no lynch on day 1 are either scum or investigative roles. He gave off a distinct impression to me anyway he would have more information after night fall to go on for the next day phase, I noted this as did Vio, and don't say if you noted this why didn't you say this out loud because I tried to get him to claim before he died and was thrown to the wolves but as you see that never got a chance to materialise.

6. In reference to the EBWOP

100% agreed. I find that BW on him scummy

then suddenly you join it, just one page later when the guy starts clearly trolling the game.

Now I am normally not the one to get things- and the fact that I was able to pick up shield's clue, means it must have not been that very subtle.
I highly doubt that only me and nag picked up on it. If i picked it up, certainly commander will have- so for him to act like the hint wasn't there is a bit strange.

Well bottom line is that we now know that we have a SKer of some sort. I'd guess third party, but that's not set in stone. It's still a useful death.

Not necessarily, as it was also brought up that it could have been a town vig.

or even a PGO. Now I know that may seem unlikely, but perhaps shield was the type of cop who could investigate during the day, but he picked a PGO and therefore died.

Well bottom line is that we now know that we have a SKer of some sort. I'd guess third party, but that's not set in stone. It's still a useful death.

Joker could easily be mafia, to be honest. Also, the only way I could see this as a useful death is that we'll lose a troll, but a cop generally is a big loss.

Now I haven't seen any of the movies, so I can't be all too sure- but are we positive that joker killed shield due to the cheek marks. That might have just been for flavor.

Shield really is showing more and more signs of being a troll. Maybe he's just ignorant, though?
And wtf, Third party cop? Never seen one of those before.

The daykill has me worried.

Seeing how shield is third party, I'm discarding my case of edocsil and his protection of shield.

Unvote

My San Francisco game consisted of third party/ mafia cops. It is not really a loss as shield was going to use the cop role for his own benefit- not for the town.

[nagerous]

The Getting Serious... is also a hint that it was the Joker.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

1. 2. 3. No OMGUS vote, cautious and firelighter because you're talking about how you'd like to see more pressure on me but you don't actually have the balls to put a vote on me yourself. You'd rather see a mud-slinging match happening again between me and edocsil and sit back and watch it all happen. Remind you of anything?

I agree with this 100%.

This doesn't warrant a vote on you yet, but if nothing better than this will come up, I'll remember this.

Now, this last part was something different. Saf, I wasn't suggesting no lynch - I'd rather wanted to pressure Nag (and still do), but if shield continues on this path, he will not last long.

After all considered, I'm suggesting that probably pressuring Nag is the best thing that we can do.

You keep saying you want to "pressure" Nag, but you've yet to vote for him. Another interesting point:

100% agreed. I find that BW on him scummy and while I can understand what Safari/Nag said about pointing scumtells and jumping on them, jumping on a newbie for making a couple of scumtells that pretty much all of the noobs make regardless of their affiliations is just as scummy (if not more) in my book.

Do you think two vets like Saf and Nag would be so eager as mafia to immediately jump on a n00b for scumtells? I know that's WIFOM, but hopefully you catch my drift. And I've seen Nag jump on other n00bs for similar mistakes, he's usually pretty intolerant of idiotic stuff like that.

-Tails

[Streaker]

Nice back and forth between comm and nag.
Commander, mind explaining this:

To be fair, he feels too safe. As much as I hate, vote shield.

Why would you hate voting him? If you think he feels too safe, wouldn't that mean he honestly believes he is a good guy?

[Commander9]

True, but remember this was a daykill. Give mafia a daykill+ a nightkill would be really powerful in a 11 person game. And him not being town-aligned makes me wonder what incentive he had to clear any players or accuse them.

Mafia could always not have a night kill... Or there might be no mafia and just SK'ers (or something along those lines). However, it's probably too early to speculate that.

I can't believe that I am about to semi-justify commie, as that is so unlike me, but I do have to say that he always plays this way. I am responding to this part btw

This. I guess I usually do look rather scummy as I'm always aggressive, but also don't throw my votes around. To be fair, my gameplay doesn't change much when I am town and when I am mafia.

Now I am normally not the one to get things- and the fact that I was able to pick up shield's clue, means it must have not been that very subtle.
I highly doubt that only me and nag picked up on it. If i picked it up, certainly commander will have- so for him to act like the hint wasn't there is a bit strange.

I saw that, but again, I disregarded it. This is not implying that he's a cop (as latter he said this as well) - it's just saying that on Day 2 there's going to be more information present (things we learnt from BW's and lynches on Day 1 and what happened on Night 1). I'm sorry, but I will disagree with you both here - if someone says it, that doesn't mean that he's implying that he's a cop.

You keep saying you want to "pressure" Nag, but you've yet to vote for him. Another interesting point:

Do you think two vets like Saf and Nag would be so eager as mafia to immediately jump on a n00b for scumtells? I know that's WIFOM, but hopefully you catch my drift. And I've seen Nag jump on other n00bs for similar mistakes, he's usually pretty intolerant of idiotic stuff like that.

-Tails

As I've said, I'm not throwing my vote around. I do found him the most suspicious and I expressed my opinion. If I didn't vote him, that means I'm not dead sure with my conviction and I wanted input.

Well, I've not played with Nag that much to know that... And yes, they could jump if it's beneficial to them. That was a noobish mistake at first and I just don't like how they jumped on it.

Nice back and forth between comm and nag.
Commander, mind explaining this:

To be fair, he feels too safe. As much as I hate, vote shield.

Why would you hate voting him? If you think he feels too safe, wouldn't that mean he honestly believes he is a good guy?

Don't mind one bit. By that I meant that I thought that he's feeling to safe as he was defended by a couple of people (Me, edoc and someone else) and while we were giving tips on how to improve his gameplay, he completely refused to listen to them. At that time he obviously didn't feel the heat and I wanted to show that trolling will not be tolerated. As far as the 2nd part goes, I didn't want to vote him as I felt that he wasn't scum (either town or 3rd party), but the whole routine was starting to annoy me a great deal and a townie that doesn't contribute and only gets the town of way wouldn't have been a horrible loss, so that's another reason why I voted.

[sheepofdumb]

Not necessarily, as it was also brought up that it could have been a town vig.

or even a PGO. Now I know that may seem unlikely, but perhaps shield was the type of cop who could investigate during the day, but he picked a PGO and therefore died.

I haven't watched insomnia or the prestige but I don't think there's a PGO in this game. I could be wrong though. All signs point to joker.

Well bottom line is that we now know that we have a SKer of some sort. I'd guess third party, but that's not set in stone. It's still a useful death.

Joker could easily be mafia, to be honest. Also, the only way I could see this as a useful death is that we'll lose a troll, but a cop generally is a big loss.

Now I haven't seen any of the movies, so I can't be all too sure- but are we positive that joker killed shield due to the cheek marks. That might have just been for flavor.

Between the title (getting serious) and the manner of the kill I'm certain it's Joker. The Joker's behavior in the movies could lend very well to mafia. He understands the value of numbers. I don't know who else could be mafia. So I could see Joker as just a SK.

[safariguy5]

True, but remember this was a daykill. Give mafia a daykill+ a nightkill would be really powerful in a 11 person game. And him not being town-aligned makes me wonder what incentive he had to clear any players or accuse them.

Mafia could always not have a night kill... Or there might be no mafia and just SK'ers (or something along those lines). However, it's probably too early to speculate that.

I can't believe that I am about to semi-justify commie, as that is so unlike me, but I do have to say that he always plays this way. I am responding to this part btw

This. I guess I usually do look rather scummy as I'm always aggressive, but also don't throw my votes around. To be fair, my gameplay doesn't change much when I am town and when I am mafia.

Now I am normally not the one to get things- and the fact that I was able to pick up shield's clue, means it must have not been that very subtle.
I highly doubt that only me and nag picked up on it. If i picked it up, certainly commander will have- so for him to act like the hint wasn't there is a bit strange.

I saw that, but again, I disregarded it. This is not implying that he's a cop (as latter he said this as well) - it's just saying that on Day 2 there's going to be more information present (things we learnt from BW's and lynches on Day 1 and what happened on Night 1). I'm sorry, but I will disagree with you both here - if someone says it, that doesn't mean that he's implying that he's a cop.

You keep saying you want to "pressure" Nag, but you've yet to vote for him. Another interesting point:

Do you think two vets like Saf and Nag would be so eager as mafia to immediately jump on a n00b for scumtells? I know that's WIFOM, but hopefully you catch my drift. And I've seen Nag jump on other n00bs for similar mistakes, he's usually pretty intolerant of idiotic stuff like that.

-Tails

As I've said, I'm not throwing my vote around. I do found him the most suspicious and I expressed my opinion. If I didn't vote him, that means I'm not dead sure with my conviction and I wanted input.

Well, I've not played with Nag that much to know that... And yes, they could jump if it's beneficial to them. That was a noobish mistake at first and I just don't like how they jumped on it.

Nice back and forth between comm and nag.
Commander, mind explaining this:

To be fair, he feels too safe. As much as I hate, vote shield.

Why would you hate voting him? If you think he feels too safe, wouldn't that mean he honestly believes he is a good guy?

Don't mind one bit. By that I meant that I thought that he's feeling to safe as he was defended by a couple of people (Me, edoc and someone else) and while we were giving tips on how to improve his gameplay, he completely refused to listen to them. At that time he obviously didn't feel the heat and I wanted to show that trolling will not be tolerated. As far as the 2nd part goes, I didn't want to vote him as I felt that he wasn't scum (either town or 3rd party), but the whole routine was starting to annoy me a great deal and a townie that doesn't contribute and only gets the town of way wouldn't have been a horrible loss, so that's another reason why I voted.

Yeah, I agree with this interpretation of what he said. If you reread what I posted in response to shield, I believed that when he said "more information on Day 2" that he meant it as believing the investigative roles would share information about their investigations. I specifically explained that cops revealing themselves too early would be making themselves targets for mafia. I didn't think that hint was that he was the cop.

[spiesr]

Yeah, I agree with this interpretation of what he said. If you reread what I posted in response to shield, I believed that when he said "more information on Day 2" that he meant it as believing the investigative roles would share information about their investigations. I specifically explained that cops revealing themselves too early would be making themselves targets for mafia. I didn't think that hint was that he was the cop.

Yeah, I didn't pick on that "hint" myself. Looking back I guess I could see how someone might interpret it that way, but I certainly wouldn't hold it against anyone if thet didn't see it that way.

And him not being town-aligned makes me wonder what incentive he had to clear any players or accuse them.

Well, I suppose that all comes down to what sort of Non-town alignment he had exactly. I mean if it was a survivor then I could you reporting the results of the investigations near the end of the game to try to end it quickly by lynching the last scum or something. If he had specific objectives then it could be possible that the powers would be useful when trying to complete those. It all comes down what the condition is and how they player decides to play it.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

With 11 alive it takes 7 to lynch. There is currently no deadline, but I reserve the right to put one in place.

With 10 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

As spiesr and Fircoal pointed out, this is weird. All the VCs are this way. I think this would lend itself well to whoever brought up the point about the executioner. If an extra vote is needed to require a majority, then it would be harder for the executioner to achieve that L-1 that he needs for the DK (actually I've never encountered an executioner, mafiascum wiki says it needs half the required lynch votes, but this could be tweaked).

-Fircoal is even more interesting. Immediatly jumps on edocs wagon against nag, for voting a noob play. If shield was overreacting to a vote on him, these 2 are guilty of the same charge. It would be easy enough to tell nag he is mistaken, and that it's a common noob move. To place 2 votes on him is a little over the top, for a player who is just following scumtells...
It reeks of mafia trying to get one of the most active players out of the way early.

I can see how edoc and shield are scummates, and edoc is trying to point shield in the right direction. It's not scummy to guide new players, but this is the sequence::

-edoc gives shield final chance
-sheep makes his case against shield and votes pile up
-edoc votes shield

I know Streaker abandoned this case, but I will continue it. Just because shield flipped "non-town" doesn't clear edoc imo. At this point, and precisely because we've seen another faction and DK, we don't have any idea what the set-up is. Perhaps edoc knew something, who knows? But the fact that edoc claimed he would vote him for one more slip-up, then doesn't wait for that slip-up but only votes after sheep's case, was strange in my opinion.

Me too, Unvote Vote Shield (still FoSing Nag for jumping on him waaay too soon)

And here, while voting for shield, he still FOS'es nag, as if to cover himself for whatever reason. At this point he's voting for shield for the exact same reasons that nag did, just later down the road.

vote edoc

-Tails

[pancakemix]

Vote Count

Comm - 1 (Nag)
Nag - 1 (Chu)
edoc - 1 (TG)

With 10 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

[sheepofdumb]

I know Streaker abandoned this case, but I will continue it. Just because shield flipped "non-town" doesn't clear edoc imo. At this point, and precisely because we've seen another faction and DK, we don't have any idea what the set-up is. Perhaps edoc knew something, who knows? But the fact that edoc claimed he would vote him for one more slip-up, then doesn't wait for that slip-up but only votes after sheep's case, was strange in my opinion.

Me too, Unvote Vote Shield (still FoSing Nag for jumping on him waaay too soon)

And here, while voting for shield, he still FOS'es nag, as if to cover himself for whatever reason. At this point he's voting for shield for the exact same reasons that nag did, just later down the road.

vote edoc

-Tails

My 'case' against shield was just telling shield that we are getting tired of his ignorance. I didn't touch much on his scummy moves except to say 'read this'.

Edoc's behavior worries me. His stress is understandable if shield turned up scum but when he doesn't he verbally states that he's off the hook.

Yeah, that is likely the best thing that could have happened, I would have been in a tight spot otherwise.

Things don't add up but I have this niggling feeling that he could be the killer. I'm going to grasp at straws here for a moment. Perhaps edoc realized that shield was a cop. If he's an anti-town executioner/SK type role limited to only DK's then getting rid of the cop and getting a lynch would be advantageous for him. That logic could be used for any player though so I'm not comfortable voting against him. For now I will FOS Edoc.

[edocsil]

... But the fact that edoc claimed he would vote him for one more slip-up, then doesn't wait for that slip-up but only votes after sheep's case, was strange in my opinion.

Me too, Unvote Vote Shield (still FoSing Nag for jumping on him waaay too soon)

And here, while voting for shield, he still FOS'es nag, as if to cover himself for whatever reason. At this point he's voting for shield for the exact same reasons that nag did, just later down the road.

vote edoc

-Tails

Simply put you lie and and more or less completely ignore the importance of the order of events.

After I said the one more slip up bit he goes

I really want to keep my no lynch vote, but you make it sound as if I'm skating on thin ice....so I'll just sit tight right now, go to bed, and think about it in the morning.

No lynch suggest D1 is bad, I would call it a slip up. Score: Edoc: 1, TG: 0

Point number 2, My FOS of Nag IS valid, it is scummy to try to jump on an easy lynch like that so quickly, as most rookies, no matter their alignment make the same mistake. After he continued to do the same crap for several pages, fairly blatantly trolling then IMO it was acceptable to hang him for it. Score: Edoc: 2, TG: 0

[safariguy5]

... But the fact that edoc claimed he would vote him for one more slip-up, then doesn't wait for that slip-up but only votes after sheep's case, was strange in my opinion.

Me too, Unvote Vote Shield (still FoSing Nag for jumping on him waaay too soon)

And here, while voting for shield, he still FOS'es nag, as if to cover himself for whatever reason. At this point he's voting for shield for the exact same reasons that nag did, just later down the road.

vote edoc

-Tails

Simply put you lie and and more or less completely ignore the importance of the order of events.

After I said the one more slip up bit he goes

I really want to keep my no lynch vote, but you make it sound as if I'm skating on thin ice....so I'll just sit tight right now, go to bed, and think about it in the morning.

No lynch suggest D1 is bad, I would call it a slip up. Score: Edoc: 1, TG: 0

Point number 2, My FOS of Nag IS valid, it is scummy to try to jump on an easy lynch like that so quickly, as most rookies, no matter their alignment make the same mistake. After he continued to do the same crap for several pages, fairly blatantly trolling then IMO it was acceptable to hang him for it. Score: Edoc: 2, TG: 0

How was that an easy lynch? I cast the first vote (joke then turned into serious), and nag was the second vote. Third and fourth are generally the bandwagonning ones, so I think you're trying to misinterpret the vote position here and subtly push for nag to get hanged.

vote edocsil

[Commander9]

How was that an easy lynch? I cast the first vote (joke then turned into serious), and nag was the second vote. Third and fourth are generally the bandwagonning ones, so I think you're trying to misinterpret the vote position here and subtly push for nag to get hanged.

vote edocsil

Personally, I also found Nag scummy, so it's not just Edoc. Also, after reading the last couple of posts, I'm still not completely sure about the case on Edoc... To be fair, the only thing that I found scummy is the way he act towards the end, but I totally agree with that going for shield at first was an easy lynch and I will still say that both me, Edoc and Fir did the right thing at the start of the game, when we defended him - just because he turned out to be a friggin' troll doesn't change the fact.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Simply put you lie and and more or less completely ignore the importance of the order of events.
.
.
.
No lynch suggest D1 is bad, I would call it a slip up. Score: Edoc: 1, TG: 0

Point number 2, My FOS of Nag IS valid, it is scummy to try to jump on an easy lynch like that so quickly, as most rookies, no matter their alignment make the same mistake. After he continued to do the same crap for several pages, fairly blatantly trolling then IMO it was acceptable to hang him for it. Score: Edoc: 2, TG: 0

He said he was going to think about it, and post the next morning whether he would rescind the no lynch. I mean, sure, he was an idiot, but I wouldn't say "I'm gonna mull it over tonight" as a slip-up. And it wasn't several pages, it was the very next page, right after sheep's vote.

-Tails

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Simply put you lie and and more or less completely ignore the importance of the order of events.
.
.
.
No lynch suggest D1 is bad, I would call it a slip up. Score: Edoc: 1, TG: 0

Point number 2, My FOS of Nag IS valid, it is scummy to try to jump on an easy lynch like that so quickly, as most rookies, no matter their alignment make the same mistake. After he continued to do the same crap for several pages, fairly blatantly trolling then IMO it was acceptable to hang him for it. Score: Edoc: 2, TG: 0

He said he was going to think about it, and post the next morning whether he would rescind the no lynch. I mean, sure, he was an idiot, but I wouldn't say "I'm gonna mull it over tonight" as a slip-up. And it wasn't several pages, it was the very next page, right after sheep's vote.

-Tails

Disregard that last part. I mixed up my argument.

-Tails

[spiesr]

With 10 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

There it is again. As this keeps happening after it has been pointed out, that would seem to indicate that this is not an error but a game mechanic. What exactly does this mean?

[sheepofdumb]

With 10 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

There it is again. As this keeps happening after it has been pointed out, that would seem to indicate that this is not an error but a game mechanic. What exactly does this mean?

Double votes all the way across the game.

That or it helps support the executioner role theory.
Honestly though I have no idea. I don't think it's very relavent to focus on at the moment.

[edocsil]

How was that an easy lynch? I cast the first vote (joke then turned into serious), and nag was the second vote. Third and fourth are generally the bandwagonning ones, so I think you're trying to misinterpret the vote position here and subtly push for nag to get hanged.

vote edocsil

I do think Nag's actions were suspicious, but I am a bad judge of him. I will not press a case, due to the fact that every time I have tried to hang him for something I deemed suspicious I have invariably been wrong.

As for an easy lynch, jumping on a noob is generally easy. Perhaps you feel differently.

[safariguy5]

How was that an easy lynch? I cast the first vote (joke then turned into serious), and nag was the second vote. Third and fourth are generally the bandwagonning ones, so I think you're trying to misinterpret the vote position here and subtly push for nag to get hanged.

vote edocsil

I do think Nag's actions were suspicious, but I am a bad judge of him. I will not press a case, due to the fact that every time I have tried to hang him for something I deemed suspicious I have invariably been wrong.

As for an easy lynch, jumping on a noob is generally easy. Perhaps you feel differently.

My point was that jumping on a noob implies a large bandwagon. What happened was that there were two opinions of shield, those who were apologists (You and Fircoal and Commander to a lesser extent) and those who thought he was scummy (me and nag). If a real bandwagon had formed, then it could be argued that some who jumped on it were scummy for doing so, but I find it difficult to point the finger at nag for making a 2 person wagon.

[edocsil]

How was that an easy lynch? I cast the first vote (joke then turned into serious), and nag was the second vote. Third and fourth are generally the bandwagonning ones, so I think you're trying to misinterpret the vote position here and subtly push for nag to get hanged.

vote edocsil

I do think Nag's actions were suspicious, but I am a bad judge of him. I will not press a case, due to the fact that every time I have tried to hang him for something I deemed suspicious I have invariably been wrong.

As for an easy lynch, jumping on a noob is generally easy. Perhaps you feel differently.

My point was that jumping on a noob implies a large bandwagon. What happened was that there were two opinions of shield, those who were apologists (You and Fircoal and Commander to a lesser extent) and those who thought he was scummy (me and nag). If a real bandwagon had formed, then it could be argued that some who jumped on it were scummy for doing so, but I find it difficult to point the finger at nag for making a 2 person wagon.

I would agree if it was a wagon when he voted it would be even worse, But I think even his vote was unwarranted. It encouraged others to join an easy wagon one that the next day he would have been able to wash his hands of fairly cleanly. A wagon isn't the only scummy vote, a vote placed for simplistic or poorly thought out reasons is scummy as well.

[nagerous]

How was that an easy lynch? I cast the first vote (joke then turned into serious), and nag was the second vote. Third and fourth are generally the bandwagonning ones, so I think you're trying to misinterpret the vote position here and subtly push for nag to get hanged.

vote edocsil

I do think Nag's actions were suspicious, but I am a bad judge of him. I will not press a case, due to the fact that every time I have tried to hang him for something I deemed suspicious I have invariably been wrong.

As for an easy lynch, jumping on a noob is generally easy. Perhaps you feel differently.

My point was that jumping on a noob implies a large bandwagon. What happened was that there were two opinions of shield, those who were apologists (You and Fircoal and Commander to a lesser extent) and those who thought he was scummy (me and nag). If a real bandwagon had formed, then it could be argued that some who jumped on it were scummy for doing so, but I find it difficult to point the finger at nag for making a 2 person wagon.

I would agree if it was a wagon when he voted it would be even worse, But I think even his vote was unwarranted. It encouraged others to join an easy wagon one that the next day he would have been able to wash his hands of fairly cleanly. A wagon isn't the only scummy vote, a vote placed for simplistic or poorly thought out reasons is scummy as well.

and if others had joined that easy wagon, and the lynch would have failed as it most likely would have that early in the game then we'd have looked at those characters who had joined the easy wagon... I was never condoning a 4 page day where we just jump on the first guy who makes one mistake.