Periodic Table Mafia: Nonmetals (TOWN) win

[thehippo8]

No vote from me Betico, don't be over-sensitive, I just wanted you to respond and explain yourself. your uncharacteristic silence was disconcerting to me. Anyway, I think we can move on now!

[Dukasaur]

Ok, first of all, since we seem to be getting past the jokevote stage, I'm going to
unvote

I analyzed the roles quite extensively here:

So with 13 players and only 32 elements, we've got about a 40% chance of having any particular element on this end of the periodic table, and that should make it easier to narrow stuff down.

I would expect that:

• the seven main (covalently-bonding) non-metals (and notice that he chose a version of the p. table where the seven main non-metals are coloured an eye-pleasing green) are probably the really good guys (doctors and such)
• the five (violently bonding) halogens are an unpredictable and mixed bag (it's already almost a given that flourine is a nasty, but I would expect something like Bromine or Iodine to be an Insane Cop or something equally treacherous) and
• the six (non-bonding) noble gasses to be vanilla townies that don't do anything in particular.

(Those looking for my more complete post can check Subject: Periodic Table Mafia [13/13] Day 1: Metalloids Plan)
Obviously, my analysis is not perfect. As was pointed out to me, for instance, there is no Insane Cop or anything really freaky like that in this particular setup. Still, the general thrust of my analysis is still sound. The really good power roles are probably going to be among the seven covalently-bonding central non-metals. The halogens, besides the evil flourine, might include another vigilante or two. The noble gasses will almost certainly be vanilla townies.

Massclaiming will allow the scum to prioritize and peg off good power roles early. I'd say it will easily double or even triple their chances of correctly identifying the townie power roles.

I have a bit of a FOS on Doom over disregarding his own advice against a premature massclaim.

Only problem with nameclaiming is that sam may have given more powerful roles to more powerful elements.

I mentioned this, jonty's defense is possible, but I also figured that perhaps mafia wouldn't be able to figure out the more powerful elements. It's tough to say. At the very latest, we should name claim tomorrow though.

My really big FOS, however, is reserved for Gillipig. Awful lot of posting, not one iota of meaningful content. Now, this is only my third mafia game, but from what I've read in the first two, this is very classic scum behaviour, a way to look very active without actually contributing anything.

[Iron Butterfly]

Its a little different but the same concept.

There are four choice scenarios playing with a serial killer.

We will have either 1 VT, 3 VTs, 5 VTs, or 7 VTs

7 VTs would leave Town with three random PRs

5 VTs would leave Town with 5 Random PRs

3 Vts would leave Town with 6 Random PRs

1 VT I believe has a very low probability of happening but would have 3 mafia and a serial killer and would leave Town with 8 power roles.

If I am wrong or someone finds error please advise but Im pretty sure this would be our options.

[Dukasaur]

EBWOP... before anyone calls me a liar, I guess technically this is my fourth mafia game, not third. I forgot about the one night I spent as a reserve in one game, where I got killed before I woke up that morning.

[jonty125]

I have a bit of a FOS on Doom over disregarding his own advice against a premature massclaim.

Only problem with nameclaiming is that sam may have given more powerful roles to more powerful elements.

I mentioned this, jonty's defense is possible, but I also figured that perhaps mafia wouldn't be able to figure out the more powerful elements. It's tough to say. At the very latest, we should name claim tomorrow though.

Hmm, he hasn't exactly gone back on his word but he has backed down a bit. I think we really should be looking for something better on D1.

[betiko]

No vote from me Betico, don't be over-sensitive, I just wanted you to respond and explain yourself. your uncharacteristic silence was disconcerting to me. Anyway, I think we can move on now!

@NoS - What you talkin 'bout Willis? I'm pretty sure that Doom's attack on Betico was about Betico skimming and nothing more than that. Correct me if I am wrong! But a vote? Hmm, I would have thought a FOS would have done until Betico responded. But Betico better explain why he skimmed or he will be a valid target!

@Chuck (and others on that topic) - mass claiming on day one is a pointless exercise.

well sir, the "unusual silence" you are talking about is 1h45 minutes if we take in consideration your response and my last post, 30 minutes between doom's acusation and your post. How many minutes exactly do I have to answer an acusation before you call that an uncharacteristic silence? oh yeah, most definitely scumarining right? How about you getting desperate to get town target someone on the first bone thrown at you, whatever it is?
You make yourself look good with the fos instead of the vote, but at the same time you are insisting quite much on that "case" and calling town to put all their eyes on me untill I respond. "you better explain why you missed a link on the OP right now or town will target you for valid reasons, including not having answered to dom's acusations after 30 minutes". Those are not your words, but it's basically what you are saying.

vote hippo, If you don't answer in the next 30 minutes i will consider this as deliberate scumarining,

[Iron Butterfly]

I would be curious as to the "uncharacteristic" label as well. What exactly is he comparing it to and was he doing so within the time frame Betiko suggests??

I will say that I do get sick of people claiming someone has "skimmed". Gawd that is such an over used and useless label, which says nothing, especially on day one. If a pattern emerges towards as the game progresses then it would be different.

I will unvote my joke vote now.

UNVOTE

[DoomYoshi]

Vodean, are you deliberately laying low?

Betiko, have up read the link yet?

[thehippo8]

Lol Betico. I thought you were online at the time. Normally when you are online you are not backward in coming forward. When you responded I moved on. Clearly you havn't but nice joke about the 30 mins!

Frankly, you are being a nong so I'll just ignore the vote.

And since we've moved on pastg the jokevoting stage,unvote.

[sempaispellcheck]

Apologies for submarining. I've been busy and as a newbie, didn't think I had anything meaningful to add.
In other news, I have read up on the game format, so I'm good to go as far as that goes.

[thechuck51]

@Chuck (and others on that topic) - mass claiming on day one is a pointless exercise.

Geez hippo, thanks for pointing that out for me since I was opposed to it anyways

Hmm, he hasn't exactly gone back on his word but he has backed down a bit. I think we really should be looking for something better on D1.

Not sure why we can't look more into doom while we wait for "something better". Personally I think his desire for a name claim is scummy.

Unfortunately, the setup is almost broken, in that there is ALWAYS a massclaim day 2 or 3. Mafia can still win after the massclaim, but beware that it is coming up soon.

I checked the link in the OP and I saw no mention of the setup being almost broken. Typically they mention something like that though i suppose you could be speaking from experience.

For instance, I don't expect Cl and O to be masons together. C and O or C and S would make sense though. The best thing about name claiming is that we can probably catch the metalloids though. If you guys want to massnameclaim, I will start and then we will popcorn through the list (I pick a player to nameclaim next, and so on).

umm... what if the metalloids have fake claims? my bet is that they do. all this would do is give scum ideas as to who may be power roles.

Are we sure we want to start nameclaiming now? I mean, it is only Day 1, and with the possibility of 2 NK's, it might give mafia and SKer (if we have one) a better idea of who the power roles might be.

I mentioned this, jonty's defense is possible, but I also figured that perhaps mafia wouldn't be able to figure out the more powerful elements. It's tough to say. At the very latest, we should name claim tomorrow though.

name claim tomorrow? by tomorrow we are looking at (at the most) 3 roles being revealed. Is that enough to figure out what scum roles we are facing? and if it is, why expose who our power roles could be? this is periodic table mafia, the periodic table is based on patterns and groupings of similar elements, so I suspect that our roles will as well.

I might be 100% off here (my scumchecker9000 is on the fritz) but I think its worth pursuing. vote doom

[samgrossy]

Vote Count, Day 1.6

Vodean - (2) sempaispellcheck, DoomYoshi L-5
Sempaispellcheck - (2) Vodean, Jonty125 L-5
Dukasaur - (1) safariguy5 L-6
DoomYoshi - (2) /, thechuck51 L-5
thehippo8 - (1) beitko L-6

Not Voting - (5) NoSurvivors, Gillipig, Dukasaur, thehippo8, iron butterfly

To make gameplay easier for players, the player(s) closest to lynch at the time of vote count will be in red bold


With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1 is 10 PM EST, October 13th. That's 7 days from now.

[/]

The case on doom is interesting, I also find it interesting his repeated warnings to the players about this setup, on one hand, of course it's important for town to be as caught up as possible to keep the edge, on the other hand, "Be warned there's a mass claim", "look at the front page", "Mafia can still win after the mass claim". These vaguely sound like subtle hints to scum to prep up on possibilities and not claim a stupid impossible role, (Town has nothing to “prepare” for when claiming since they should tell the truth, scum on the other hand can always use a bit more research) so I'm not sure what to make of doom, he's playing with a double edged sword here, and I'm not very used to open setups beyond Dethy and C9.

I will keep my vote as is for now.

[vodean]

sorry for my absence. i accidentally went to work instead of logging in... sorry.
i agree with everything chuck said. i think there are VT noble gases. we know there are VTs, we know noble gases dont react. halogens are good guys (and the most powerful), nonmetals are good guys (less powerful, but have power roles), metaloids are scum. flourine (if present) is VT

[vodean]

sorry for my absence. i accidentally went to work instead of logging in... sorry.
i agree with everything chuck said. i think there are VT noble gases. we know there are VTs, we know noble gases dont react. halogens are good guys (and the most powerful), nonmetals are good guys (less powerful, but have power roles), metaloids are scum. flourine (if present) is SK

EBWOP last word

[betiko]

Lol Betico. I thought you were online at the time. Normally when you are online you are not backward in coming forward. When you responded I moved on. Clearly you havn't but nice joke about the 30 mins!

Frankly, you are being a nong so I'll just ignore the vote.

And since we've moved on pastg the jokevoting stage,unvote.

I just learnt a new word so i checked the urban dictionary, and I am sure it's meaning #4:

4. Nong

A Singaporean slang of multicultural influences which means - An intelligent and charming person, usually with great cooking skills
Wow, Nong!


well thank you! in that case I will unvote because I like compliments, even if you failed to answer my acuations in 30 minutes.

[DoomYoshi]

Replies in Green

Unfortunately, the setup is almost broken, in that there is ALWAYS a massclaim day 2 or 3. Mafia can still win after the massclaim, but beware that it is coming up soon.

I checked the link in the OP and I saw no mention of the setup being almost broken. Typically they mention something like that though i suppose you could be speaking from experience.

It`s not broken in the sense that one side has a distinct advantage. It`s broken in that you can`t play without a massclaim. IMO, good games can hold off on massclaims until MYLO. This is possible in C9++, but only in T rich setups and only if VTs die exclusively. I am not sure if this point is part of the case on me, or just an aside.

For instance, I don't expect Cl and O to be masons together. C and O or C and S would make sense though. The best thing about name claiming is that we can probably catch the metalloids though. If you guys want to massnameclaim, I will start and then we will popcorn through the list (I pick a player to nameclaim next, and so on).

umm... what if the metalloids have fake claims? my bet is that they do. all this would do is give scum ideas as to who may be power roles.

Are we sure we want to start nameclaiming now? I mean, it is only Day 1, and with the possibility of 2 NK's, it might give mafia and SKer (if we have one) a better idea of who the power roles might be.

I mentioned this, jonty's defense is possible, but I also figured that perhaps mafia wouldn't be able to figure out the more powerful elements. It's tough to say. At the very latest, we should name claim tomorrow though.

name claim tomorrow? by tomorrow we are looking at (at the most) 3 roles being revealed. Is that enough to figure out what scum roles we are facing? and if it is, why expose who our power roles could be? this is periodic table mafia, the periodic table is based on patterns and groupings of similar elements, so I suspect that our roles will as well.

I might be 100% off here (my scumchecker9000 is on the fritz) but I think its worth pursuing. vote doom

So in the end, you raised points that I already raised against me. There is a chance that the metalloids have fakeclaims. There is also a chance that power roles are based on element. After deliberating, I realized that those chances were not very high. The concept behind a nameclaim tomorrow is that we will then be able to decipher the scene text.

In any case, mafia already knows where to look for power roles. There have been 3 vanilla slips already, so its becoming more and more a moot point.

/: do you think it is anti-town to want someone to have actually read the setup
One final point on the setup: if you are a vig, don't shoot N1. I wouldn't shoot any night, but especially not N1.

[samgrossy]

Vote Count, Day 1.7

Vodean - (2) sempaispellcheck, DoomYoshi L-5
Sempaispellcheck - (2) Vodean, Jonty125 L-5
Dukasaur - (1) safariguy5 L-6
DoomYoshi - (2) /, thechuck51 L-5
thehippo8 - (1) beitko L-6

Not Voting - (5) NoSurvivors, Gillipig, Dukasaur, thehippo8, iron butterfly

Nong - (2) Betiko, thehippo8

To make gameplay easier for players, the player(s) closest to lynch at the time of vote count will be in red bold


With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1 is 10 PM EST, October 13th. That's 6 days from now.

[Iron Butterfly]

Replies in Green

Unfortunately, the setup is almost broken, in that there is ALWAYS a massclaim day 2 or 3. Mafia can still win after the massclaim, but beware that it is coming up soon.

I checked the link in the OP and I saw no mention of the setup being almost broken. Typically they mention something like that though i suppose you could be speaking from experience.

It`s not broken in the sense that one side has a distinct advantage. It`s broken in that you can`t play without a massclaim. IMO, good games can hold off on massclaims until MYLO. This is possible in C9++, but only in T rich setups and only if VTs die exclusively. I am not sure if this point is part of the case on me, or just an aside.

For instance, I don't expect Cl and O to be masons together. C and O or C and S would make sense though. The best thing about name claiming is that we can probably catch the metalloids though. If you guys want to massnameclaim, I will start and then we will popcorn through the list (I pick a player to nameclaim next, and so on).

umm... what if the metalloids have fake claims? my bet is that they do. all this would do is give scum ideas as to who may be power roles.

Are we sure we want to start nameclaiming now? I mean, it is only Day 1, and with the possibility of 2 NK's, it might give mafia and SKer (if we have one) a better idea of who the power roles might be.

I mentioned this, jonty's defense is possible, but I also figured that perhaps mafia wouldn't be able to figure out the more powerful elements. It's tough to say. At the very latest, we should name claim tomorrow though.

name claim tomorrow? by tomorrow we are looking at (at the most) 3 roles being revealed. Is that enough to figure out what scum roles we are facing? and if it is, why expose who our power roles could be? this is periodic table mafia, the periodic table is based on patterns and groupings of similar elements, so I suspect that our roles will as well.

I might be 100% off here (my scumchecker9000 is on the fritz) but I think its worth pursuing. vote doom

So in the end, you raised points that I already raised against me. There is a chance that the metalloids have fakeclaims. There is also a chance that power roles are based on element. After deliberating, I realized that those chances were not very high. The concept behind a nameclaim tomorrow is that we will then be able to decipher the scene text.

In any case, mafia already knows where to look for power roles. There have been 3 vanilla slips already, so its becoming more and more a moot point.

/: do you think it is anti-town to want someone to have actually read the setup
One final point on the setup: if you are a vig, don't shoot N1. I wouldn't shoot any night, but especially not N1.

Just because you believe there has been a vanilla slip does not mean that there was. You could be completely wrong. We also have no idea how many VT there are. There is absolutely no reason to name claim tommorow as that would be poor Town strategy.

The problem with this setup is that Mafia and Sk can pretty much claim whatever role they want without fear of being counterclaimed. We could have 0 cops, one cop or three cops, The same with docs trackers ect. It depends on what dice were rolled to determine the PRs.

Now if Element names indicate whether one has a power role or not then it would be like shooting fish in a barrel for the bad guys. They would not need to know the role but would be safe in the knowledge they got one. This of course would only be true IF there was an established pattern.

If two town are killed night one and they both are VTs who turn out to be Noble Gas although not conclusive would certainly indicate a pattern.

Element claiming would be down right stupid day two.

[Gillipig]

How about we make some name claims and see who's claiming the same role?

[Gillipig]

Ignore the word "role" there ^^, I meant "element". I don't think we should out roles, just names.

[betiko]

Ignore the word "role" there ^^, I meant "element". I don't think we should out roles, just names.

I agree with iron. it's a bit easy then. just wait for people to claim if you're scum or sk and wait for elements that are not taken, there are more elements than people. also i guess elements such as carbone, oxygen and hydrogen will very possibly be power roles (or maybe i didnt get that part and it's noble gases that should be PRs)

but i don't mind that people wanting to claim their element do it as soon as they wish.

[jonty125]

Ignore the word "role" there ^^, I meant "element". I don't think we should out roles, just names.

I agree with iron. it's a bit easy then. just wait for people to claim if you're scum or sk and wait for elements that are not taken, there are more elements than people. also i guess elements such as carbone, oxygen and hydrogen will very possibly be power roles (or maybe i didnt get that part and it's noble gases that should be PRs)

but i don't mind that people wanting to claim their element do it as soon as they wish.

Hydrogen is on the metal side on the periodic table on the OP so I doubt its in this game. I don't think we should assume noble gases are VT until we see some dead noble gases.

[betiko]

Ignore the word "role" there ^^, I meant "element". I don't think we should out roles, just names.

I agree with iron. it's a bit easy then. just wait for people to claim if you're scum or sk and wait for elements that are not taken, there are more elements than people. also i guess elements such as carbone, oxygen and hydrogen will very possibly be power roles (or maybe i didnt get that part and it's noble gases that should be PRs)

but i don't mind that people wanting to claim their element do it as soon as they wish.

Hydrogen is on the metal side on the periodic table on the OP so I doubt its in this game. I don't think we should assume noble gases are VT until we see some dead noble gases.

well hydrogen is a non metal and is in green on the table? do you think all of the 25 roles are only in the 5x5 square on the right of the metals? you are probably right but i don't know..

[jonty125]

Ignore the word "role" there ^^, I meant "element". I don't think we should out roles, just names.

I agree with iron. it's a bit easy then. just wait for people to claim if you're scum or sk and wait for elements that are not taken, there are more elements than people. also i guess elements such as carbone, oxygen and hydrogen will very possibly be power roles (or maybe i didnt get that part and it's noble gases that should be PRs)

but i don't mind that people wanting to claim their element do it as soon as they wish.

Hydrogen is on the metal side on the periodic table on the OP so I doubt its in this game. I don't think we should assume noble gases are VT until we see some dead noble gases.

well hydrogen is a non metal and is in green on the table? do you think all of the 25 roles are only in the 5x5 square on the right of the metals? you are probably right but i don't know..

Erm, this is a 13 player game and hydrogen is a funny one, it floats around.