Periodic Table Mafia: Nonmetals (TOWN) win

[sempaispellcheck]

Ignore the word "role" there ^^, I meant "element". I don't think we should out roles, just names.

I agree with iron. it's a bit easy then. just wait for people to claim if you're scum or sk and wait for elements that are not taken, there are more elements than people. also i guess elements such as carbone, oxygen and hydrogen will very possibly be power roles (or maybe i didnt get that part and it's noble gases that should be PRs)
but i don't mind that people wanting to claim their element do it as soon as they wish.

Hydrogen is on the metal side on the periodic table on the OP so I doubt its in this game. I don't think we should assume noble gases are VT until we see some dead noble gases.

well hydrogen is a non metal and is in green on the table? do you think all of the 25 roles are only in the 5x5 square on the right of the metals? you are probably right but i don't know..

There have been plenty of campaigns over the years to put hydrogen on the other side of the table, right next to helium. It is very much a nonmetal - it's only on the left side of the table because it has 1 valence electron, like lithium, sodium, and the other Group 1 metals - so I wouldn't rule it out.
For my part, I'm OK with assuming the noble gases are VTs, based on arguments already given.

[betiko]

Ignore the word "role" there ^^, I meant "element". I don't think we should out roles, just names.

I agree with iron. it's a bit easy then. just wait for people to claim if you're scum or sk and wait for elements that are not taken, there are more elements than people. also i guess elements such as carbone, oxygen and hydrogen will very possibly be power roles (or maybe i didnt get that part and it's noble gases that should be PRs)
but i don't mind that people wanting to claim their element do it as soon as they wish.

Hydrogen is on the metal side on the periodic table on the OP so I doubt its in this game. I don't think we should assume noble gases are VT until we see some dead noble gases.

well hydrogen is a non metal and is in green on the table? do you think all of the 25 roles are only in the 5x5 square on the right of the metals? you are probably right but i don't know..

There have been plenty of campaigns over the years to put hydrogen on the other side of the table, right next to helium. It is very much a nonmetal - it's only on the left side of the table because it has 1 valence electron, like lithium, sodium, and the other Group 1 metals - so I wouldn't rule it out.
For my part, I'm OK with assuming the noble gases are VTs, based on arguments already given.

wow, sorry this post is not too game related, more about what sempai just said. I'm looking at a discovery channel program about jupiter, and what they are saying basically is that they modelled jupiter to understand better how it is constituted and that it's core is most likely hydrogen, and with the modelizations of the pressures in place on jupiter, hydrogen, at that level of pressure has a metallic form!

[Gillipig]

Ignore the word "role" there ^^, I meant "element". I don't think we should out roles, just names.

I agree with iron. it's a bit easy then. just wait for people to claim if you're scum or sk and wait for elements that are not taken, there are more elements than people. also i guess elements such as carbone, oxygen and hydrogen will very possibly be power roles (or maybe i didnt get that part and it's noble gases that should be PRs)
but i don't mind that people wanting to claim their element do it as soon as they wish.

Hydrogen is on the metal side on the periodic table on the OP so I doubt its in this game. I don't think we should assume noble gases are VT until we see some dead noble gases.

well hydrogen is a non metal and is in green on the table? do you think all of the 25 roles are only in the 5x5 square on the right of the metals? you are probably right but i don't know..

There have been plenty of campaigns over the years to put hydrogen on the other side of the table, right next to helium. It is very much a nonmetal - it's only on the left side of the table because it has 1 valence electron, like lithium, sodium, and the other Group 1 metals - so I wouldn't rule it out.
For my part, I'm OK with assuming the noble gases are VTs, based on arguments already given.

wow, sorry this post is not too game related, more about what sempai just said. I'm looking at a discovery channel program about jupiter, and what they are saying basically is that they modelled jupiter to understand better how it is constituted and that it's core is most likely hydrogen, and with the modelizations of the pressures in place on jupiter, hydrogen, at that level of pressure has a metallic form!

Sorry to go even further off track but doesn't all elements have a solid, liquid and gas form? So what is strange about hydrogen being metallic when under enough pressure to be solid?

[safariguy5]

Sorry to go even further off track but doesn't all elements have a solid, liquid and gas form? So what is strange about hydrogen being metallic when under enough pressure to be solid?

True, all elements have a solid, liquid, and gas form. We just tend to classify them on the periodic table as their phase under normal conditions (Standard Temperature and Pressure).

As for the game at hand, I'm having trouble seeing 3 VT slips that Doom claims. Indeed, even if someone were to claim VT, that would be totally not indicative of anything. They could be VT. They could be a town power role trying to hide their importance. Granted I'm usually a big proponent of LAL, but I do concede there are certain instances where faking a VT may be justified by a town power role. And of course, we have the classic mafia fakeclaim of VT.

Given there's only 13 players and more than enough nonmetals to cover all mafia and anti town roles, I don't think that a nameclaim can help town find mafia but it can help mafia find townies. I do concede that a new mod may not have helped out mafia by providing fakeclaims, but there's nothing to stop him from providing them fakes now, especially if he has been reading the game thread regularly. As mafia, I've received fakeclaims from the mod late twice in response to an early massclaim. So even if we assume the mod didn't give mafia fakes at the beginning, that may not be true now.

[/]

/: do you think it is anti-town to want someone to have actually read the setup
One final point on the setup: if you are a vig, don't shoot N1. I wouldn't shoot any night, but especially not N1.

It depends, how do you think it will affect our claims if we know the setup?
Let's take Dethy for an example http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Dethy

If everyone playing knows about dethy, scum can analyze the claims, know just when to claim, just what to claim, etc.
If scum doesn't know what the setup is, maybe they'll claim doc, vig, tracker, etc
By ensuring that everyone knows beforehand how the odds work, and what roles are possible, you make it impossible for a skimming scum to botch a claim.
That's all I'm saying.

[betiko]

Sorry to go even further off track but doesn't all elements have a solid, liquid and gas form? So what is strange about hydrogen being metallic when under enough pressure to be solid?

this has nothing to do with it. a metallic form has nothing to do with a state like solid/liquid/gas. Aparently, hydrogen has both a solid and liquid metallic form. the metallic form is about it's conductivity and all that.

And yes, this game is hard to start with. no one is being really agressive on each other and we still didn't come up with one of these moot day 1 cases. I think that doom didn't even find 3 vt slips, maybe one or two and he is trying to get a discution going about this. in a malicious way or not? I don't know.

[samgrossy]

Vote Count, Day 1.8

Vodean - (2) sempaispellcheck, DoomYoshi L-5
Sempaispellcheck - (2) Vodean, Jonty125 L-5
Dukasaur - (1) safariguy5 L-6
DoomYoshi - (2) /, thechuck51 L-5
thehippo8 - (1) beitko L-6

Not Voting - (5) NoSurvivors, Gillipig, Dukasaur, thehippo8, iron butterfly

Vote count has not changed since yesterday.

To make gameplay easier for players, the player(s) closest to lynch at the time of vote count will be in red bold


With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1 is 10 PM EST, October 13th. That's 5 days from now.

[thehippo8]

Okay, so in the absence of finding someone to vote - why are you voting me Betico? Mind you, it is like walking in treacle at the moment!

[betiko]

Okay, so in the absence of finding someone to vote - why are you voting me Betico? Mind you, it is like walking in treacle at the moment!

actually i unvoted in bold but forgot to put it in red, i guess that's why sam didn't remove it. bah i guess it doesn't hurt to leave the vote where it is for the time being. are you worried about that one vote on you?

[thehippo8]

Okay, so in the absence of finding someone to vote - why are you voting me Betico? Mind you, it is like walking in treacle at the moment!

actually i unvoted in bold but forgot to put it in red, i guess that's why sam didn't remove it. bah i guess it doesn't hurt to leave the vote where it is for the time being. are you worried about that one vote on you?

So you did, I do recall that but saw that it remained. Nah, it's fine if you want to leave it there it makes no difference when you have nothing better to do!

[jonty125]

My vote is a jokevote so unvote and I have no idea whether hydrogen is a non-metal or metal but lets agree that it's not a metalloid.

[DoomYoshi]

Betiko is calling me a liar, so I will elaborate on where I see 3 VT slips. I spotted them in saf, duke and NoS. All 3 assumed that a) noble gases are in the game and b) noble gases are VT.

I assumed noble gases weren't in the game at all so whenever someone makes a different assumption than me, I instantly believe they have knowledge that I don't have. Originally, I assumed the knowledge was that Noble Gases are in the game was not common. However, I see that Wikipedia has the non-metals comprising of noble gases, halogens and other. I (for whatever reason) classified non-metals as halogens and other, with noble gases separate. Doing the math makes it obvious that either H is included and Mafia have no fakeclaims or that the noble gases are included.

Did anyone else not realize that the noble gases were included?

[vodean]

hydrogen has metallic and nonmetallic properties. it could be 3-rd party, scum, or town. it could be in this game, it could not. but for now, until someone claims hydrogen, let's refrain from judging it too harshly and actually present cases instead.

[betiko]

Betiko is calling me a liar, so I will elaborate on where I see 3 VT slips. I spotted them in saf, duke and NoS. All 3 assumed that a) noble gases are in the game and b) noble gases are VT.

I assumed noble gases weren't in the game at all so whenever someone makes a different assumption than me, I instantly believe they have knowledge that I don't have. Originally, I assumed the knowledge was that Noble Gases are in the game was not common. However, I see that Wikipedia has the non-metals comprising of noble gases, halogens and other. I (for whatever reason) classified non-metals as halogens and other, with noble gases separate. Doing the math makes it obvious that either H is included and Mafia have no fakeclaims or that the noble gases are included.

Did anyone else not realize that the noble gases were included?

yes true, these were assumptions that i couldn't have given myself, but i'm not sure all 3 of them are necesairly noble gases, they might as well just work on clues and/or are mafia fishing for info and buying it.

vodean, very nice, why don't you make a case then? is there any particular reason why we should serve you on a plate a case you like and you shouldn t even bother to find one yourself?

[DoomYoshi]

I feel comfortable with where my vote is.

[NoSurvivors]

Betiko is calling me a liar, so I will elaborate on where I see 3 VT slips. I spotted them in saf, duke and NoS. All 3 assumed that a) noble gases are in the game and b) noble gases are VT.

I assumed noble gases weren't in the game at all so whenever someone makes a different assumption than me, I instantly believe they have knowledge that I don't have. Originally, I assumed the knowledge was that Noble Gases are in the game was not common. However, I see that Wikipedia has the non-metals comprising of noble gases, halogens and other. I (for whatever reason) classified non-metals as halogens and other, with noble gases separate. Doing the math makes it obvious that either H is included and Mafia have no fakeclaims or that the noble gases are included.

Did anyone else not realize that the noble gases were included?

yes true, these were assumptions that i couldn't have given myself, but i'm not sure all 3 of them are necesairly noble gases, they might as well just work on clues and/or are mafia fishing for info and buying it.

vodean, very nice, why don't you make a case then? is there any particular reason why we should serve you on a plate a case you like and you shouldn t even bother to find one yourself?

I can tell you I am not a noble gas.. but I can also tell you that if the assumption is correct, that it is not only the noble gasses that are VT's.

[Iron Butterfly]

So you are claiming you are a VT without claiming you are a VT by saying you are not a noble gas?

[Iron Butterfly]

On a side note...I am a little concerned that we are getting to hung up with the elements. While the mod gave us a back story of the metelloids being bad guys and the SK being something else No Survivers has hinted that the set up should not be taken for granted.

[thehippo8]

So you are claiming you are a VT without claiming you are a VT by saying you are not a noble gas?

I am truly confused on whatever it is that he thinks that he's doing. I assume that he's trying to be a fly in the ointment so that the discussion gets started. But, really? Really? I think I'd like a proper claim from him now as he has my curiosity up. So, to add pressure ... unvote vote NoS.

Fastposte by IB

[samgrossy]

Vote Count, Day 1.9

Vodean - (2) sempaispellcheck, DoomYoshi L-5
Sempaispellcheck - (1) Vodean L-6
Dukasaur - (1) safariguy5 L-6
DoomYoshi - (2) /, thechuck51 L-5
thehippo8 - (1) beitko L-6
NoSurvivors - (1) thehippo8 L-6

Not Voting - (5) NoSurvivors, Gillipig, Dukasaur, iron butterfly, Jonty125

To make gameplay easier for players, the player(s) closest to lynch at the time of vote count will be in red bold


With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline for Day 1 is 10 PM EST, October 13th. That's 4 days from now.

[safariguy5]

Well ok NoS... that doesn't say very much.

Let's look at the numbers. The setup has 7 numbers randomly chosen. On average, 3-4 of them will be VT's. That means out of 13 players, 3 are scum, 3-4 of them are not vanilla, and the other 6-7 are VT's.

There are only 6 Noble Gases, so given a normal distribution, that should cover most of the VT roles given out.

Now, it's possible we had more VT's than that, but I think that your reaction to being classified a noble gas VT was awkward and I interpreted it as being defensive.

unvote vote NoSurvivors

[Iron Butterfly]

I agree he needs to claim. I'm not sure why he choose to beat around the bush the way he did. If you wish to make a point then say it. Before we assume anything he needs to bring more clarity to the table...NO PUN intended...har until I was writing it.

VOTE NOS

[DoomYoshi]

I'm meh on the NoS case. I'm pretty sure he claimed VT. Why he did so is a completely different question.

[betiko]

I'm meh on the NoS case. I'm pretty sure he claimed VT. Why he did so is a completely different question.

yeah same here, but since he's gone that road i'd like to hear what element he is.

[jonty125]

Practically what everyone else has said What element are you?