Conquer Club

no neb not inactive just quiet, you learn more that way, and what ive learned is its day 1 and people are pressing buttons trying to get responses to gauge reactions, in other words a typical day one in mafia, although a lot more activity than we usually get in a day one, but in my opinion nothing vote worthy yet

and on a side note im going on vacation tomorrow and won't get back till end of may, so my internet connection will be less dependable, so not much from me for the next 10 days, i will check in when i can but no promises

Neb and dj are both scummy at this point for voting rish after he softclaimed pro-town hero. For those votes to not be scummy, you would both have had to a) acknowledge the softclaim when you voted and b) have damning enough evidence why his softclaim is bs.

Since Neb has been pretty good at laying low so far, I will vote dj

Official Vote Count:

Doom: Aage (L-6)
Chuck: Sheepofdumb (L-6)
Rishaed: Safariguy, Zimmah, Chuck, Nebuchadnezer, Djfireside (L-2)
Zimmah: Jonty (L-6)
sheepofdoom: IB, ??? (L-5)
aage: Sheepofdoom (L-6)
No Lynch: Rishaed (L-6)
Djfireside: Doomyoshi (L-6)

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline 22:00 hours EST (54 hours)

Doom, it's interesting how much value you give to Rish's softclaim. This is an NVT game, everyone is either scum or a "pro-town hero". I think his softclaim hinted towards having multiple votes, but I could be wrong. However, a softclaim like that in an NVT game doesn't add any value, and honestly I'm tired of the guessing game.

new guy1 wrote:Official Vote Count:

Doom: Aage (L-6)
Chuck: Sheepofdumb (L-6)
Rishaed: Safariguy, Zimmah, Chuck, Nebuchadnezer, Djfireside (L-2)
Zimmah: Jonty (L-6)
sheepofdoom: IB, ??? (L-5)
aage: Sheepofdoom (L-6)
No Lynch: Rishaed (L-6)
Djfireside: Doomyoshi (L-6)

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline 22:00 hours EST (54 hours)

Someone seems to have voted a secrete vote on Sheep? With the myriad ways the voting has gone day one it would seem to me someone is advertising that they exist. The element of surprise is gone and their vote does nothing.

I have also noticed that sheep is on Chuck and aage, which I suspect is an honest mistake on mods part?

DoomYoshi wrote:Neb and dj are both scummy at this point for voting rish after he softclaimed pro-town hero. For those votes to not be scummy, you would both have had to a) acknowledge the softclaim when you voted and b) have damning enough evidence why his softclaim is bs.

Since Neb has been pretty good at laying low so far, I will vote dj

I'm not even sure what you are referring to with this post. So, anytime somebody softclaims, we should assume they are town? That makes no sense. As for your second statement...huh? Wouldn't you vote me if I was "laying low?" Maybe I don't understand what "laying low" means to you.

Sheepofdoom... Uh oh

Sheeps vote is to be on aage. Sorry for the screw up.

Well ok, honestly, it's not a bad day 1 if all we out is the doublevoter. Not only is that person easily proven, they'd be pretty low on the list of mafia kill targets as they cannot directly affect a mafia kill or out mafia. So I'm waiting for rishaed's claim, and if indeed it is the doublevoter, then I don't consider that terribly detrimental to town.

safariguy5 wrote:Well ok, honestly, it's not a bad day 1 if all we out is the doublevoter. Not only is that person easily proven, they'd be pretty low on the list of mafia kill targets as they cannot directly affect a mafia kill or out mafia. So I'm waiting for rishaed's claim, and if indeed it is the doublevoter, then I don't consider that terribly detrimental to town.

Since I am at L-2.... Saf I hinted already that you were on the wrong trail with your role ideas. You still are. I am a back-up for one of our other characters. That means I know Town has one other role for certain. It is why I would like not to fully claim, so I can evaluate the validity of certain claims and/or clear another person later on. As such I am currently sitting on VT like status with night actions. As I said, I will be useful later rather than sooner (that is if I live that long anymore). I want more input from the other ones voting other than Saf. Specifically Chuck.
@Zimmah

DJfireside wrote:However since there is no traction being gathered and we will quickly run out of time since conversation seems to go all around I will push pressure to get moving in some way.

This is future tense not present. Thus your claim that she is scummy because she was worried about running out of time was/is invalid. I don't find this scummy b/c RL days typically do tend to go quick for the rest of us. (For you it may go extremely quick/slow).

thechuck51 wrote:

rishaed wrote: wrote:The reason I think we may have a PGO is that she visited the "food Source" And he killed her to prevent her from telling others about his farm.

The way I read the scene Abel (NPC) was being stalked: "while he was looking at these blessings, someone else was watching him". The stalker was not waiting at the food source, he was away from camp: "It was getting dark, and he needed to get back to camp."

Seems pretty clear to me that the stalker is an SK. I'm not sure if you just misread the scene or if you are trying to mislead town but since you seemed so eager to jump into the doom/aage/zimmah fray vote rish

You vote me for that? And the overeager jumping into the doom/aage/zimmah fray is absolute BS. I posted one analysis on a Zimmah post and then told them that they might want to get away from the personal stuff. I neither voted, nor FoS'd, nor did anything else other than give my opinion, while trying to contribute. unvote vote TheChuck51. My sole desire was to get meaningful discussion coming out of the Joke Vote stage, while bringing other people's opinions on my initial train of thought, (which was somewhat successful until the entire personal debate/dispute showed up).

Also in rereading I came across this post. IGMEOY Zimmah.

Analysis and Reply

zimmah wrote:

rishaed wrote:

zimmah wrote: i'm saying this because at the start of the game he asked to be a jester, and it'd be amazing coincidence if he would be one. I don't believe he is one though, but you can never be sure.

also, he's not playing like he usually does, but it'd be wrong to just say he's scum because of that, because normally when you're scum you'd try to avoid acting scummy, which he clearly does not. However, this whole thing could be a case of WIFOM, because if he suspect we will ignore him if he acts strange enough, because he'll predict we will have our doubts about his motives, than acting extremely scummy could be a tactic to avoid getting lynched.

either way, i think doom should not be overlooked.

and besides, i am usually participating too much rather than not enough. so i don't really worry about asking questions just to ask questions.

I'm sorry, I thought someone had asked me for a side of META.
However I will make some points from Zimmahs post here.
A.Way to backpedal like someone hit you with a heavy fist? Generally uninformative, really just wish wash in general.
B.I believe I addressed this in my previous post. Simply put how a person chooses to Roleplay/play in general in a game of Mafia is irrelevant despite whatever META you might have on them.
C.No one should be overlooked. Its the one principle in Mafia that wins games.
D.Asking questions for questions sake is all well and good, however if they cloud the game (Betiko in Holiday Mafia sry bud) they benifit Mafia much more than town. A good town player will seek to ask the Right questions not the most.

How is "blame zimmah" the right question?

I did not blame you at all, though it may have seemed like it. I analyzed your post broke it down ( 1st bold goes with A., Italics with B., and underline goes with C., and D. goes back to bold.) I might have slightly criticized your post here for being either slightly scummy (1st Bold), with white noise as Sheep puts it. The rest were just general observations that have held true for me when playing mafia. So please answer where I blamed you?

unvote

i never said you blamed me in particular, at the point where i said that aage was harassing me a lot and that's my usual (over)reaction when i feel i'm getting harassed.

anyway i have no reason to doubt your claim, so i unvoted, and i don't think we have enough day left to start a new case on anyone.

rishaed wrote: Since I am at L-2.... Saf I hinted already that you were on the wrong trail with your role ideas. You still are. I am a back-up for one of our other characters. That means I know Town has one other role for certain. It is why I would like not to fully claim, so I can evaluate the validity of certain claims and/or clear another person later on. As such I am currently sitting on VT like status with night actions. As I said, I will be useful later rather than sooner (that is if I live that long anymore). I want more input from the other ones voting other than Saf. Specifically Chuck.

I was almost happy with your claim and move on based on knowledge of the game but then I re-read something and it strikes me off because it differs from what I believe your role "should" do.

I can deal with the fact that You are a backup of another charecter. Thats fully believable.
I can deal with you hiding your main role although it must be something interesting that you dont want anyone to know it exists especially since you can say you can validate them so wouldnt be Cop/Doc cause those are expected.

However, I have an issue with your night actions as a backup. It just doesnt sit well with me but I may be wrong. Saw something else I am going to review but had to note it but leaving vote for now

As for the Double Voter, appears they just want to be known they are there but kind of at a weird time which is what I want to review.

rishaed wrote:

thechuck51 wrote:

rishaed wrote: wrote:The reason I think we may have a PGO is that she visited the "food Source" And he killed her to prevent her from telling others about his farm.

The way I read the scene Abel (NPC) was being stalked: "while he was looking at these blessings, someone else was watching him". The stalker was not waiting at the food source, he was away from camp: "It was getting dark, and he needed to get back to camp."

Seems pretty clear to me that the stalker is an SK. I'm not sure if you just misread the scene or if you are trying to mislead town but since you seemed so eager to jump into the doom/aage/zimmah fray vote rish

You vote me for that? And the overeager jumping into the doom/aage/zimmah fray is absolute BS. I posted one analysis on a Zimmah post and then told them that they might want to get away from the personal stuff. I neither voted, nor FoS'd, nor did anything else other than give my opinion, while trying to contribute. unvote vote TheChuck51. My sole desire was to get meaningful discussion coming out of the Joke Vote stage, while bringing other people's opinions on my initial train of thought, (which was somewhat successful until the entire personal debate/dispute showed up).

yeah, I voted you for that. You pulled a PGO out of thin air and you were SURE of it. I can see why you would think there is an SK but where does the PGO come from?

and I'm not keen on your soft claiming a PR at L-3, seemed premature. Now you are claiming to be a back up which could be just a way to keep somebody from being able to counter-claim you.

I'm going to leave my vote where it is

thechuck51 wrote:

rishaed wrote:

thechuck51 wrote:

rishaed wrote: wrote:The reason I think we may have a PGO is that she visited the "food Source" And he killed her to prevent her from telling others about his farm.

The way I read the scene Abel (NPC) was being stalked: "while he was looking at these blessings, someone else was watching him". The stalker was not waiting at the food source, he was away from camp: "It was getting dark, and he needed to get back to camp."

Seems pretty clear to me that the stalker is an SK. I'm not sure if you just misread the scene or if you are trying to mislead town but since you seemed so eager to jump into the doom/aage/zimmah fray vote rish

You vote me for that? And the overeager jumping into the doom/aage/zimmah fray is absolute BS. I posted one analysis on a Zimmah post and then told them that they might want to get away from the personal stuff. I neither voted, nor FoS'd, nor did anything else other than give my opinion, while trying to contribute. unvote vote TheChuck51. My sole desire was to get meaningful discussion coming out of the Joke Vote stage, while bringing other people's opinions on my initial train of thought, (which was somewhat successful until the entire personal debate/dispute showed up).

yeah, I voted you for that. You pulled a PGO out of thin air and you were SURE of it. I can see why you would think there is an SK but where does the PGO come from?

and I'm not keen on your soft claiming a PR at L-3, seemed premature. Now you are claiming to be a back up which could be just a way to keep somebody from being able to counter-claim you.

I'm going to leave my vote where it is

I'm on Chuck's train of thought here...since when do we accept "I'm a backup power role" as a valid claim, and then simply leave it be? And, I may not be very knowledgeable, but how can a backup role still have a night action? Aren't they the "backup" that doesn't activate until the primary is killed? I find Zimmah's unvote suspicious. He's either really trusting, or he knows Rishaed is town and therefore trying to stay on his good side by unvoting.

I too, will leave my vote where it is.

Nebuchadnezer wrote:

DoomYoshi wrote:Neb and dj are both scummy at this point for voting rish after he softclaimed pro-town hero. For those votes to not be scummy, you would both have had to a) acknowledge the softclaim when you voted and b) have damning enough evidence why his softclaim is bs.

Since Neb has been pretty good at laying low so far, I will vote dj

I'm not even sure what you are referring to with this post. So, anytime somebody softclaims, we should assume they are town? That makes no sense. As for your second statement...huh? Wouldn't you vote me if I was "laying low?" Maybe I don't understand what "laying low" means to you.

No, a softclaim does not auto mean town. However, if someone is willing to softclaim power role (and yes I know its NV, but town commuter isn't on the same level as deputy).

I mean you were laying low because there haven't been any votes on you. That means a lynch on you would be hard to pull unless I had great evidence. I don't - I just take offense at your style of play.

Nebuchadnezer wrote:

thechuck51 wrote:

rishaed wrote:

thechuck51 wrote:

rishaed wrote: wrote:The reason I think we may have a PGO is that she visited the "food Source" And he killed her to prevent her from telling others about his farm.

The way I read the scene Abel (NPC) was being stalked: "while he was looking at these blessings, someone else was watching him". The stalker was not waiting at the food source, he was away from camp: "It was getting dark, and he needed to get back to camp."

Seems pretty clear to me that the stalker is an SK. I'm not sure if you just misread the scene or if you are trying to mislead town but since you seemed so eager to jump into the doom/aage/zimmah fray vote rish

You vote me for that? And the overeager jumping into the doom/aage/zimmah fray is absolute BS. I posted one analysis on a Zimmah post and then told them that they might want to get away from the personal stuff. I neither voted, nor FoS'd, nor did anything else other than give my opinion, while trying to contribute. unvote vote TheChuck51. My sole desire was to get meaningful discussion coming out of the Joke Vote stage, while bringing other people's opinions on my initial train of thought, (which was somewhat successful until the entire personal debate/dispute showed up).

yeah, I voted you for that. You pulled a PGO out of thin air and you were SURE of it. I can see why you would think there is an SK but where does the PGO come from?

and I'm not keen on your soft claiming a PR at L-3, seemed premature. Now you are claiming to be a back up which could be just a way to keep somebody from being able to counter-claim you.

I'm going to leave my vote where it is

I'm on Chuck's train of thought here...since when do we accept "I'm a backup power role" as a valid claim, and then simply leave it be? And, I may not be very knowledgeable, but how can a backup role still have a night action? Aren't they the "backup" that doesn't activate until the primary is killed? I find Zimmah's unvote suspicious. He's either really trusting, or he knows Rishaed is town and therefore trying to stay on his good side by unvoting.

I too, will leave my vote where it is.

This is so fucking wrong its not even funny.

A backup role requires that there be an original role to back up. It is therefore a VERIFIABLE claim, making it one of the strongest claims possible.

Now you just aren't thinking.

However, rish, it is only a strong claim if you tell us what it is.

DoomYoshi wrote: A backup role requires that there be an original role to back up. It is therefore a VERIFIABLE claim, making it one of the strongest claims possible.

Now you just aren't thinking.

It's not 100% verifiable. It could be a calculated risk. Claim backup cop or doc (likely PRs in a non vanilla game). The doc or cop has to reveal themselves in order to verify the claim. Now scum has a verified townie under their belt and a likely target for a night kill.

thechuck51 wrote:

DoomYoshi wrote: A backup role requires that there be an original role to back up. It is therefore a VERIFIABLE claim, making it one of the strongest claims possible.

Now you just aren't thinking.

It's not 100% verifiable. It could be a calculated risk. Claim backup cop or doc (likely PRs in a non vanilla game). The doc or cop has to reveal themselves in order to verify the claim. Now scum has a verified townie under their belt and a likely target for a night kill.

Yes, this is all true. Besides, even if the "original role" would step up it does not guarantee that Rish is telling the truth. I'm sure there is a doc in this game, even willing to bet there is a cop. Either is top choice for a backup role. Claiming to be either only proves that the game is set up as expected. Besides outing Rish, it won't hurt town to let us know what kind of role he is backing up, I don't see why he's refraining from that, like there's more he's not telling us.

I'm willing to entertain the existence of a backup role, though. With so many players, some have to have no night action (yet) to make proper balancing possible. I suppose lynching a backup is the best worst case scenario in an NVT game, but before I decide if I support or oppose his lynch I would hear from Rish which role he is backing up.

aage wrote:

thechuck51 wrote:

DoomYoshi wrote: A backup role requires that there be an original role to back up. It is therefore a VERIFIABLE claim, making it one of the strongest claims possible.

Now you just aren't thinking.

It's not 100% verifiable. It could be a calculated risk. Claim backup cop or doc (likely PRs in a non vanilla game). The doc or cop has to reveal themselves in order to verify the claim. Now scum has a verified townie under their belt and a likely target for a night kill.

Yes, this is all true. Besides, even if the "original role" would step up it does not guarantee that Rish is telling the truth. I'm sure there is a doc in this game, even willing to bet there is a cop. Either is top choice for a backup role. Claiming to be either only proves that the game is set up as expected. Besides outing Rish, it won't hurt town to let us know what kind of role he is backing up, I don't see why he's refraining from that, like there's more he's not telling us.

I'm willing to entertain the existence of a backup role, though. With so many players, some have to have no night action (yet) to make proper balancing possible. I suppose lynching a backup is the best worst case scenario in an NVT game, but before I decide if I support or oppose his lynch I would hear from Rish which role he is backing up.

Forgot to add, if Rish were more specific on which role he is backing up there would be room for a counterclaim, which right now there is not.

i don't think we should push him to a full claim, if he's telling the truth it's worse enough already that the backup might be lost to us.

a backup might be insignificant now, but may become useful later, no matter what role he backs up, there's a ~10% chance that mafia kills him (the orignal) N1, and a ~8% chance the SK kills him N1 (lower for SK because the SK has more potential targets). so that brings the total to about ~17% (not ~18% because there's a small, about 1% chance they both choose the same target, numbers may be a bit off, i also didn't factor in roleblocks, saves, busdrives, etc because i have no idea which roles are in the game).

the chance will be even higher night 2, not to mention we may even accidentally lynch him.

i didn't calculate the odds for it (it's pretty hard without enough information) but i'm pretty sure that by day 3 or 4 the chances of the original role being alive is lower than the chance of him being dead. Therefore it's a risky move to lynch a potential backup. If he's speaking the truth he could be useful later on, especially because by that time we have more information to go with in the first place.

aage wrote:

"Forgot to add, if Rish were more specific on which role he is backing up there would be room for a counterclaim, which right now there is not."

So if he were a back up Doc you would expect a Doc to step forward and say, "Yup Im the Doc"??

On day one a power role would be foolish to come forward to substantiate a back up claim, which would prove nothing anyways. If Rish is lieing we can not prove or disprove he is telling the truth until the main role he may be backing up id flipped or rish himself is dead.

Djfireside wrote:

rishaed wrote: Since I am at L-2.... Saf I hinted already that you were on the wrong trail with your role ideas. You still are. I am a back-up for one of our other characters. That means I know Town has one other role for certain. It is why I would like not to fully claim, so I can evaluate the validity of certain claims and/or clear another person later on. As such I am currently sitting on VT like status with night actions. As I said, I will be useful later rather than sooner (that is if I live that long anymore). I want more input from the other ones voting other than Saf. Specifically Chuck.

I was almost happy with your claim and move on based on knowledge of the game but then I re-read something and it strikes me off because it differs from what I believe your role "should" do.

I can deal with the fact that You are a backup of another charecter. Thats fully believable.
I can deal with you hiding your main role although it must be something interesting that you dont want anyone to know it exists especially since you can say you can validate them so wouldnt be Cop/Doc cause those are expected.

However, I have an issue with your night actions as a backup. It just doesnt sit well with me but I may be wrong. Saw something else I am going to review but had to note it but leaving vote for now

As for the Double Voter, appears they just want to be known they are there but kind of at a weird time which is what I want to review.

Lolwut? A backup only takes place when the original role dies. As for a double voter since he played his card so early he is more likely to be town? Either A. Have me full claim/ B. Unvote me and/or vote No Lynch. I don't really care, but make your decision quickly or I'll just full claim sometime tomorrow.

Now it just seems like you are stalling.

DoomYoshi wrote:Now it just seems like you are stalling.

Very well. I am Asim Back-up Doc Now please unvote me. Not that It will matter anyways. I'm sure to die tonight somehow.

why would you claim? you was only at L-3 because i unvoted already and noone else voted you after that.