Streaker's F11 Game Over (4/9) MAFIA WIN (archive plz)

[madmitch]

@ Aage Tim might very well be a cop and not scum BUT you were suspicious of him early and so was everyone else,his posts are getting to crazy to understand even for me the mad one . I have to hope I am right and he is in panic mode an trying to save his ass. VOTE TIM

[Streaker]

Razorvich has replaced wcwnww. He 'should' be reading up today. I will extend deadline by 48 hours giving him the chance to catch up, and post something, and to give you guys the chance to interact with him.

New deadline: 8th October 02.00 CC time.

[subtleknifewield]

Ok, here comes my readthrough here...

I'm glad the cops are sane.

I hear ya. I am also very happy that your investigations will be fruitful, that will definitely help us a lot. Personally, I like a bit of insanity now and then...

There is no proof yet that this game has cops insane or not and if we do Bosaard what reason have you to think Epic is a cop ?

Page two. Easy to miss in the flurry of joke votes on this page, but this comment seems a bit off, in retrospect. It was early on, we were still in the joke-vote phase, but he seems to possibly be fishing for the identity of the cop, assuming we actually have one. Of course it could be entirely innocent, curiosity over a misunderstood statement. But it is something to consider, especially considering the insanity of Mitch's play, how he doesn't seem to be contributing much, if at all, merely spouting babble for the most part, even after the joking phase is over. It's like he's trying to maintain activity without committing to any serious reads.

Speculating about the roles is kind of pointless at the moment. If there is a cop, he is a sane cop. If there is a doc, he is a sane cop. (Unless Mitch is one of them of course.)

Tim, you are slightly suspicious there.

Aage your statement about Tim is highly suspicious almost to the point of being scummy,are you trying to get the light off you?

Explain yourself.

And late on page 3, he pushes Aage about some nonexistent light, potentially defending a scum-buddy Tim who seems to be trying to deliberately confuse the newer players on the setup?

These posts have made me rethink more than one of my reads. Anyway, my reads are as follows:

Reads:
Tim: Heavily leaning scum for trying to confuse the game early on with the discussion about the sanities of the potential power roles, and then later soft-claiming VT and denying it, repeatedly, and THEN later trying to hint that he does have a PR after all. Inconsistent claims seem to indicate deceptive behavior when he thought the earlier claim might get him lynched, even when having only one vote on hi at the time. Trying not to factor in how he reacted to my push on him, as OMGUS is a natural reaction and was to be expected as I was his biggest detractor at the time, but even without that the read remains strong.
Mitch: Possible scum, potential indirect defense of Tim by trying to cast suspicion on his questioner, implication of prior suspicion that did not exist, also confusing the early game by the mistaken assertion there might be a bus driver, and being part of the confusion over sane/insane roles. Rarely is he offering more than questions, instead of opinions of his own.
pt: Possibly either way, scum for the same reason as Mitch, though his reasoning makes more sense and could simply have been town fooled by Mitch as he does state he agreed with Mitch. Likewise the fact he did not vote Tim even when suspecting him is worthy of note, though this could also be as he said, the 'fool me once' issue where he was fooled in a previous game, and he is afraid that bias might be clouding his judgement. All these balance. However, tentatively leaning town as he was one of the first to start pushing for people to give reads--instead of scattered 'conjecture' as he puts it.
Bosaard: Probably town, new to mafia but seems to be actively scumhunting and eager to learn the game.
Aage: Was initially leaning town, as Epi said of him, he came off as more annoyed than anything at the reaction to Mitch's pushing, and is actively trying to help the newer players and scumhunt at the same time. Pushed on page four for us to all actively get into the game and not just wait around for those who were inactive. However, when he provides his analysis/reads on page seven, he unvotes his previous vote--and then doesn't vote for either player that he suggests he finds suspicions (myself and PT). Mitigated a tad by the town move of warning off a potential counter--claim of the real cop assuming we have one and it is not Tim, but not entirely.
Rizky: Possibly new scum trying to scate by, possibly town unsure and not wanting to be wrong for fear of lynching the wrong target. Neutral read.
Epi: going to give my read after quoting something from him. Quote is in the spoiler.

Spoiler

Don't worry about wcw for now. I don't think he's not posting because he's scummarining--he seems legitimately absent as the mod has confirmed. That said, I hope he's not scum because it's impossible to get a read on him.

pt, I like the effort you're putting into a case on Tim, but I have to admit, I'm not feeling it. I see his actions more as a new player rather than someone deliberately trying to scum things up.

However, I couldn't help but notice that skw hopped right on board your case though without much comment.

After reading what PT said, just making sure here...

unvote

Vote: Tim

Granted, skw had already placed a vote on Tim and this was just making sure his vote was on. But I still would have expected a little more analysis of what pt had just said given that it was the longest case we've had today.

It got me looking at skw's posts and at first he just seemed to agree with everyone, even on opposite sides of an issue (see mitch v. aage exchange). Then gets into a little back and forth with Tim over the softclaim thing and eventually puts his vote on Tim "given what has happened so far" (see link above). Maybe this it's because I'm just not reading Tim as scum, but skw's actions strike me as someone who was trying to buddy up to people early and then he's forcing pressure on a player making newbie mistakes.

This isn't a super strong scum read on my part, but I finder it scummier than anything else I've seen this game.

unvote Vote skw

At first I thought it might just be a mistake, not reading, as I was the one to originally make any sort of real case on Tim, and yet he tries to cast it as me being the first in a bandwagon on the back of someone else's case. But I have gotten the feeling Epitaph is a veteran here. Could this me be subconsciously OMGUS'ing here? Perhaps, but I still think it's a rookie mistake for a veteran to make. Unless it's not a mistake. For that reason, leaning possible scum here.
=================
These are all my reads, obviously not gonna read the replacement as they have not posted, nor myself as I know what I am and it's my job to convince you guys of that.

[subtleknifewield]

WHEW! There, you have it... *wipes sweat off brow* My analysis of every player that has participated after a reread of the entire thread.

[rizky_biznezz]

not much to add yet... tim what are your thoughts? so far its mostly just u defending ur posts... mitch you suspect tim but do you have anything else to add about others? .. and epi you said you were joining to use ur experience to help things flow so what are your thoughts now?

[rizky_biznezz]

how long do i have to be in this before i get one of those scumdars you guys speak off lol

[Streaker]

Vote count

-Madmitch (1): aage
-bosaardbeitje (0)
-subtleknifewield (0)
-ptlowe (1): rizky_biznezz, subtleknifewield
-wcwnww Razorvich (1): bosaardbeitje, ptlowe, Epitaph1
-Epitaph1 (1): TimWoodbury
-Aage (2): Epitaph1, ptlowe, bosaardbeitje
-rizky_biznezz (0): bosaardbeitje
-TimWoodbury (2): Subtleknifewield, madmitch

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline next Thursday, October 8th 03.00 CC time.

[TimWoodbury]

not much to add yet... tim what are your thoughts? so far its mostly just u defending ur posts... mitch you suspect tim but do you have anything else to add about others? .. and epi you said you were joining to use ur experience to help things flow so what are your thoughts now?

i you dont need thoughts why do i need thoughts??? its the old saying you gotta give to get right???

this game i honestly have not a clue on, rizky i still dun got a kumdar only a roletellerdar lol

i am getting a vibe from skw that he could go either way he has a skum read on jsut about every player on the game maybe he thinks they are skum as he knows who the real skum is and is jsut making cases out of the molehill??

[rizky_biznezz]

U need thoughts because I posted mine already and I need something new to work on and u havent given much of a read on anyone so I need the help to further my thoughts lol.. Read on skw that's a start thanks

[Epitaph1]

@skw, you weren't the first one to make a case on tim. You just argued with him a bit and then voted him "given what has happened so far". Saying "given what has happened so far" isn't making a case, it takes a little more leg work than that. pt outlined all the reasons he thought tim was scummy--that's making a case. To be sure, you were the first one to vote for him, but that isn't the same as organizing the arguments against him.

However, your last reads are much better about giving your rationale behind your opinion. I like how you're laying it out there now.

unvote

---

If Tim is bluffing about the PR, I would be shocked. I can't see him as the martyr type, at least in this game. However, given how much grief he got about softclaiming earlier in the game, he definitely should have known better than to come back now and softclaim again! Early on, I was thinking it was a rookie mistake, but I find his latest hint much more egregious.

---

No one is screaming scum to me so far. Tim's latest role hint is probably the worst crime we've seen so far and has me more inclined to think he's scum than I was thinking earlier. I don't know if we have it in us to push him for a lynch today though, in case he really is a town PR. If Razor is scum, well then we're up a creek as far as that goes right now.

I'm actually leaning town skw now (yeah, I know this is a reversal) and pt. Everyone else is pretty neutral. Given that bosaard and risky are so new, I haven't seen them make any scum slips and they seem like they are honestly trying to learn the game to me. I usually find mitch really scummy, but not so this game. Don't count that as a town read for sure though lol.

Very unsure of Aage right now. Not sure why. Going to think on him.

[rizky_biznezz]

Thanks epi...

I still am lost with tim.. He started with epi (joking) then accuses aage of deflecting then votes pt and now accuses skw but hasn't really backed up anything with an argument.. Other than the fact that skw has suspicions on nearly everyone, truth is so do I lol.. However saying that I may need to reconsider my thoughts on bos too seeing as she is the only one marked as safe on subtles list.. Sooo basically I'm back to square one

[bosaardbeitje]

how long do i have to be in this before i get one of those scumdars you guys speak off lol

Didn't you get the PM from streaker? He provided them for all of us at the start of the game. To be picked up at the closest IKEA. Run now!

i you dont need thoughts why do i need thoughts??? its the old saying you gotta give to get right???

Brilliant, and that is going to help us how? You, mister, are one strange cookie!

Need some time to read all the posts, specially the one from Subtle, will get back to it in a few hours.

[rizky_biznezz]

Thanks bos I will head out straight away and pick one up.. If it comes flat packed in 1000 pieces I may not be back for a while lol..

I realise I haven't been much help so Tim's post to me is fair... however he has played before and yet doesn't seem to want to help put a case forward so I may be jumping on the tim bandwagon.. But still waiting for more from Mitch I saw him in here before so I was expecting to come back to a post.. Maybe just working on his analysis there is lots to go thru..

Here razzy razzy razzy.. U have some catching up to do

Goodnight all

[TimWoodbury]

you saw mitch here before hes not here now hmmm wonder why hes not psoted. i will adit my playy here has been off from what i typically play i guess mitch gave me some of his special cigerates to start this game off.

gues im a little lost as well with all the new plyers not the typicall players so cant go off what ive seen them do in the past.

i think boss would be town hsi play seems like hes trying to figure things out instead of jsut throwing around things just to see what sticks.
rizky im not shure of he seems almsot to lost to be a new townie kinda as if hes not shuer what he should do and is waiting for night to talk with his partner

[bosaardbeitje]

I really don't like giving all my reads, because scum is reading as well, and I'd rather not let them know what I am up to, but here it is anyway, short and concise:

Madmitch - leaning scum - doesn't care about the set-up, doesn't make sense, only raises questions, doesn't provide solid cases blablabla
Subtleknifewield - neutral - a little under the radar now an then, providing good ideas as well
Ptlowe - my strongest town read (you'd better not be scum) - trying to make cases, pushing people when necessary, no strange behaviour
Epitaph1 - leaning scum - very much under the radar, little one-liner here, little accusation there, not stirring the pot, just laying low
Aage - neutral - defensive posting, AWOL for a while, but also good ideas and strategies
Rizky - neutral - either honestly confused and now pitching in, or cannot wait for the night to start
Tim - leaning scum - doesn't care about the set-up, softclaiming this, hardclaiming that, blablabla

In my book Townsies should make it beyond clear that they are Townsies, so Mitch and Tim, if you want me to believe that you are really Town, you have got a lot of work to do.

Tim, I am willing to let you live another day to see what your great powers will do during the night, and it better be good, or else you are next!

And so I have to unvote aage for the moment.

[ptlowe]

Figured I would make another update.

Epi – Usually more active. He is helping guide us in a few directions which was better than earlier. Leaning town on Epi.
bosaardbeitje – She seems to be working towards a resolution. Making good points. Read as town.
SKW – Same as Bosaard..making good points and guiding less experienced players. Has quieted down from the beginning but it is hard to keep up with 190 posts. Still leaning town.
Madmitch – Kind of just all over the place. A little suspicious. Im not sure how he normally plays as he was lynched early in one game and then in the second didn’t respond much. He does seem to be less trying to scum hunt then the first game when I was with him which makes him somewhat suspicious to me but hard to follow so I don’t know. Leaning scum for me just for the fact hes not making much sense.
New Person-no post yet, no read, if scum........gonna mess us up a bit.
Aage-overreacted to small spotlight on himself. Seems to be very aggressive when pressed even a little bit. Hasnt really made much headway on reads and hasnt offered too much. Leaning scum still.
rizky-......like the activity. Seems like how a first game towny would act.
Tim- High Scum read. And he’s dubiously sneaky. His posts are getting worse. I have a hard time understanding him at all.

[TimWoodbury]

i see im read as highly skum by quite a few right now however not voteing to kill e?? makes me wonder your
1) hopeing i slip up and reveal my partner
2)you dont really think im skum but just wanna look like you do so when i die you can say hey i was right
3)your all jsut playing follow the leader and saying me because the person in front of yah did

either way its cool with me do as is needed.
questions oquiet so cant say its differantf mitch ive seen hes typically
id say pt and epi are prolly my strongest town bets

[bosaardbeitje]

4) going with aage's strategy

What do I make of this? If Tim is vt, this is great play. If he is cop, I'm gonna facepalm very hard if he is dead tomorrow. But either way he's playing the bluffing game here, right? If he's VT, he wants to get killed. If he's cop, he wants the maf to think he wants to get killed, and in both cases he doesn't want to get lynched. Though I guess you're referring to the third option, which is Tim is mafia. Right now I'd rather not see anyone push him to claim definitively, because that's pretty sketchy. I don't mind being kept in the dark about whether he claims vt or cop - it doesn't matter to me right now, I don't really want to lynch him anyway.

As I said, if you're still alive on day 2 and town got screwed big time, you are next on my list!

[ptlowe]

i see im read as highly skum by quite a few right now however not voteing to kill e?? makes me wonder your
1) hopeing i slip up and reveal my partner
2)you dont really think im skum but just wanna look like you do so when i die you can say hey i was right
3)your all jsut playing follow the leader and saying me because the person in front of yah did

either way its cool with me do as is needed.
questions oquiet so cant say its differantf mitch ive seen hes typically
id say pt and epi are prolly my strongest town bets

Im not pushing people on votes till closer till the end. I dont want to get someone lynched prematurely and then we had another day to figure things out. As you have 2 votes on you, if I vote you now you go L-2 and we still have about 2 days to decide. No reason for such an action until we have made every read we can make.

[madmitch]

tried scumhunting, first with Aage then Bosaard then Tim, Aage just lost it, it was like how dare I accuse him the great and powerful oz of being scum Bosaard was cool about it and she shot back and made sense ,and Tim is just not making any sense with his soft claim then pr claim and soft claim again ,he has to be scum, those were my major claims so far and then I got accused of being all over the board making stupid posts must be scum, so now I will be quite and let someone else post in case I SAY something wrong again and get hung

[bosaardbeitje]

Cry me a river! You didn't read the set-ups, you constantly answer questions with questions, you point a little bit in this direction, a little bit in that direction, you unvoted a vote that wasn't there in the first place and when aage comes up with a good strategy (as far as I know) to deal with Tim, you choose to do the opposite and vote Tim.

[ptlowe]

Cry me a river! You didn't read the set-ups, you constantly answer questions with questions, you point a little bit in this direction, a little bit in that direction, you unvoted a vote that wasn't there in the first place and when aage comes up with a good strategy (as far as I know) to deal with Tim, you choose to do the opposite and vote Tim.

Nice I like the push. Good going.

[aage]

tried scumhunting, first with Aage then Bosaard then Tim, Aage just lost it, it was like how dare I accuse him the great and powerful oz of being scum Bosaard was cool about it and she shot back and made sense ,and Tim is just not making any sense with his soft claim then pr claim and soft claim again ,he has to be scum, those were my major claims so far and then I got accused of being all over the board making stupid posts must be scum, so now I will be quite and let someone else post in case I SAY something wrong again and get hung

You're being dramatic. I accused you of strawmanning, since you (deliberate?) misread other people's posts and attacked them on things they didn't say. I'm not even voting you, the latest vote count is off.

Bosaard, why do you vote me? Your vote was already on me. Besides, you have a neutral read on me and leaning scum on three others. In your latest post you admit that my proposal is good and Mitch is being scummy. Doesn't make any sense.

I agree with what PT said in his latest posts. He seems to understand that Tim not claiming and not rushing for a lynch is in the benefit of town, so that makes me read him more town.

I'm on the fence about who to lynch atm. Mitch might be a good choice considering his odd posting, but lynching him doesn't tell us anything. Honestly, I think it's more interesting to know Tim's role; if he flips town, Bosaard is likely to be scum imo. If he flips scum, PT is likely to be his scumbuddy imo. That's based on their interactions with Tim so far. The problem is I don't want to lynch Tim, as I explained earlier considering his half-claim. A bunch of people are pushing me... I know I'm town, so obviously I can't get behind that lynch. I'll vote Rizky. He doesn't seem to be doing anything, but buddied up to Bosaard over almost nothing in the three posts from here on. Bosaard asked him to comment, he meekly obliged and Bosaard unvoted. After that he has continued to do nothing. I don't have any other leads I'd like to follow right now, to be honest.

[bosaardbeitje]

I unvoted you, I should not type a name next time I unvote someone

[TimWoodbury]

I unvoted you, I should not type a name next time I unvote someone

that is correct, if unvoting all you need is just red unvote if unvoteing and revoting its unevote vote blah o course in red as well