Hillary Clinton

[got tonkaed]

you could also certainly argue that the decrease in birthrates as a result of modernization was going to drastically affect the economy.....

But of course it certainly didnt. A lot of times falling or rising birthrates are signs of different changes in social spheres. Frankly, we dont really have a problem with not having enough people on this earth as is. A few generations of low birth rate would not hurt anyones approximation of the earths carrying capacity.

[Napoleon Ier]

you could also certainly argue that the decrease in birthrates as a result of modernization was going to drastically affect the economy.....

But of course it certainly didnt. A lot of times falling or rising birthrates are signs of different changes in social spheres. Frankly, we dont really have a problem with not having enough people on this earth as is. A few generations of low birth rate would not hurt anyones approximation of the earths carrying capacity.

The question is not about global birthrate but those in specific areas. In Britain and France, Immigration accounts for siginificantly larger increase in pop. than native births, cut by 200.000 roughly p.a murdered (sorry, "terminated")

[got tonkaed]

is there a resulting loss in population that would be catastrophic for the country....the answer thus far seems to be no...and i dont think any forcasts would really tend to show otherwise.

[Napoleon Ier]

is there a resulting loss in population that would be catastrophic for the country....the answer thus far seems to be no...and i dont think any forcasts would really tend to show otherwise.

yes! Only look at what's going on! Cultural dilution, ethnic ghettoisation, ageing workforce....

[got tonkaed]

is there a resulting loss in population that would be catastrophic for the country....the answer thus far seems to be no...and i dont think any forcasts would really tend to show otherwise.

yes! Only look at what's going on! Cultural dilution, ethnic ghettoisation, ageing workforce....

none of those things are in any way catastrophic for a country. They will change the nature of a country yes...but they are certainly not catastrophic.

[heavycola]

Can someone explain what gay marriage and abortion will do to the economy?

help demolish it and replace native workforce with an allogenous one (yep, those muslims are pretty busy with their 4 wives)

Do you know any muslim men with harems? Does using grown up words like 'allogenous' make your kneejerk nonsense look less stupid? Will gay marriage and abortion demolish the french economy?


er...

If you want to deny a 20% decrease in birth rates is not going to affect the economy, please, be my guest. You will however come accross as perpetrating, how do you say, "kneejerk nonsense".

'ow do you say, 'more bollocks'.

Where did this figure suddenly come from?
Is there going to be a disastrous population decrease from all the abortions, or a disastrous population increase from all the polygamist muslims?

[Napoleon Ier]

The figure comes from the fact that roughly 1/4 of pregnancies in GB and France are aborted.
The result is an ageing workforce.
Ethnically ghettoised arab immigrants live off employment benefits especially in France, where about 40% are unemployed, I believe.

[Guiscard]

The figure comes from the fact that roughly 1/4 of pregnancies in GB and France are aborted.
The result is an ageing workforce.
Ethnically ghettoised arab immigrants live off employment benefits especially in France, where about 40% are unemployed, I believe.

Wait. I'm still absolutely mystified as to how you can link the number of abortions and immigration figures...

And, as Cola so truthfully puts is, bollocks.

[Guiscard]

The figure comes from the fact that roughly 1/4 of pregnancies in GB and France are aborted.
The result is an ageing workforce.
Ethnically ghettoised arab immigrants live off employment benefits especially in France, where about 40% are unemployed, I believe.

And, as for abotrion rates, I think the figure in Britain this year is closer to 15%, not 25%.

[Napoleon Ier]

You cant argue that isnt going to have an economical impact.

[Guiscard]

You cant argue that isnt going to have an economical impact.

I can argue that low birthrates are not to do with abortions. It has to do with things like the increased ease with which women can seek careers, more unstable financial situations such as the housing market, the increasing financial strain on larger families... Not abortion rates. Infant mortality rates were at 14.6 in 1976. Now they're at 5.1. Surely THAT should have had roughly the OPPOSITE impact!


This is for the UK (from statistics.gov.uk) showing fertility rates.

[comic boy]

The figure comes from the fact that roughly 1/4 of pregnancies in GB and France are aborted.
The result is an ageing workforce.
Ethnically ghettoised arab immigrants live off employment benefits especially in France, where about 40% are unemployed, I believe.

But statistically Muslims are less likely to have abortions so their unemployment rates will decrease when their offspring take up the slack

[Guiscard]

The figure comes from the fact that roughly 1/4 of pregnancies in GB and France are aborted.
The result is an ageing workforce.
Ethnically ghettoised arab immigrants live off employment benefits especially in France, where about 40% are unemployed, I believe.

But statistically Muslims are less likely to have abortions so their unemployment rates will decrease when their offspring take up the slack

Don't try and debate with him. Those statements are entirely seperate.

The first has to do with a made up statistic regarding abortion rates, and then applying it to a 99% unrelated trend of an aging population (which has more to do with better healthcare than anything).

The second is his usual xenophobic rant.

[heavycola]

The figure comes from the fact that roughly 1/4 of pregnancies in GB and France are aborted.
The result is an ageing workforce.
Ethnically ghettoised arab immigrants live off employment benefits especially in France, where about 40% are unemployed, I believe.

But statistically Muslims are less likely to have abortions so their unemployment rates will decrease when their offspring take up the slack

But muslims don't take up the slack. I believe that's part of napoleon's argument. They lie around impregnating their harems or blowing up buses instead.

[Snorri1234]

This is for the UK (from statistics.gov.uk) showing fertility rates.

Interresting graph. The number of children women had was already declining before abortion was actually made legal.

[Napoleon Ier]

irrelevant comment though snorri, backstreet abortions must be considered, the abortion law was simply a legal enaction of a barbarous process carried out clandestinely

[Snorri1234]

irrelevant comment though snorri, backstreet abortions must be considered, the abortion law was simply a legal enaction of a barbarous process carried out clandestinely

Ah so what you're saying is that they never thought about backstreet abortion untill 1964 or something? Why would that rate have increased?

Actually, the rate of children per woman has been dropping much earlier. The only reason it doesn't look like that is because of the baby-boom.

(I'll look for a source for that, though. I can't remember where I read it again.)

[Napoleon Ier]

irrelevant comment though snorri, backstreet abortions must be considered, the abortion law was simply a legal enaction of a barbarous process carried out clandestinely

Ah so what you're saying is that they never thought about backstreet abortion untill 1964 or something? Why would that rate have increased?

Actually, the rate of children per woman has been dropping much earlier. The only reason it doesn't look like that is because of the baby-boom.

(I'll look for a source for that, though. I can't remember where I read it again.)

You mention that birth rates decline before abortion was legal. I answer that 1967 is just the transfer from illegal to legal abortion, but not from no abortions to 200.000/year suddenly

[got tonkaed]

nappy what exactly is your argument about abortion here.... i mean i think in a whole 3 or 4 posts the idea that it was going to lead to economic calamity was defeated. Are you arguing that those who have made that choice do not deserve to have a sterile and probably safer setting for the procedure....

although im not sure your sure, im definintly not sure what your driving at at this point.

[Guiscard]

irrelevant comment though snorri, backstreet abortions must be considered, the abortion law was simply a legal enaction of a barbarous process carried out clandestinely

Come on. You've just disproved your own crackpot theory!

So abortions are the cause of our declining birth rate, yet they were just as prevalent whilst the birthrate was on the rise...

[Napoleon Ier]

It was not dissproved at all. Nothing has contradicted the view that abortion has caused stunted population growth, in turn severly damaging the workforce and its distribution.

[got tonkaed]

it certainly does not carry much weight though. In an increasingly technologically advanced workforce, and in a planet where labor will be able to move more than ever before, birth rates in developed countries does not an economic success make.

There are certainly more mediating factors than anything youve suggested could be caused by having more abortions.

[Guiscard]

It was not dissproved at all. Nothing has contradicted the view that abortion has caused population decline, in turn severly damaging the workforce and its distribution.

No. EITHER abortions were present in large numbers before it was legalised, meaning that the peak in birth rates was not affected by abortion. OR you argue for a link between rising abortion rates and lower birth rates. You're contradicting yourself. I could just as well argue that the imposition of the 70mph speed limit in 1965 led to a decline in population. Indeed, we'd have about as much proof as your theory. I also note you've spectacularly failed to address any of the opposing arguments, for example that of the increased propensity for women to undertake careers, the increasing cost of bringing up a family etc. etc.

You've yet to provide a single statistic other than '1/4 of pregnancies are aborted' which is actually untrue.

How about some form of proof? Or are we gonna get rhetoric again...

I'm just waiting for the EU to become involved. Its probably their fault somewhere along the line.

[1st chair flute]

my 2 cents... down with hillary!

[Frigidus]

my 2 cents... down with hillary!

Kinda jumped in on an off-topic conversation here, heheh. Also, she isn't up yet.