Conquer Club

As far as evolution goes, heres how I see it. Christians cant prove that the world was entirely created in 7 days. Evolutionists cant prove how evolution started. It seems to me that God made everything using Evolution.

To all the fundamentalist Christians, DONT TAKE THE BIBLE SO LITERALY!!! If the writers of the old testament had described evolution as we know it now, the book would have been rejected and Christianity wouldn't exist.

To all you christian haters: DONT BE SO CYNICAL!!! is there really a problem believing in a higher being and following the teachings of Jeesus? Also, you guys are typically the same ones who talk about tolerance of everyone, but apparently that doesnt extend to Christians.

Another question Ive always had. Where in the Bible does it condemn pre-marital sex?

DIRESTRAITS wrote:To all you christian haters: DONT BE SO CYNICAL!!! is there really a problem believing in a higher being and following the teachings of Jeesus?

Who said anything about hating christians? I don't hate them. I see nothing wrong with believing whatever you want to believe in. Hey...GO NUTS! Just don't make me pay for it, use public lands to display your propaganda or try to teach it to my kids.

As for arguing here, well...they did start the thread and invite debate.

DIRESTRAITS wrote:Also, you guys are typically the same ones who talk about tolerance of everyone, but apparently that doesnt extend to Christians

What is there to tolerate if you pray/preach/thump and condemn in the privacy of your own home or church? Nothing! Except they don't do that, do they. Commandments MUST be posted at taxpayer funded sites. Prayer MUST be allowed in public school. Intelligent design MUST be taught in public schools. I wont tolerate ANY of that...and neither would they, were it any other religion but christianity.

Backglass wrote:

DIRESTRAITS wrote:Also, you guys are typically the same ones who talk about tolerance of everyone, but apparently that doesnt extend to Christians

What is there to tolerate if you pray/preach/thump and condemn in the privacy of your own home or church? Nothing! Except they don't do that, do they. Commandments MUST be posted at taxpayer funded sites. Prayer MUST be allowed in public school. Intelligent design MUST be taught in public schools. I wont tolerate ANY of that...and neither would they, were it any other religion but christianity.

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I dont know where you live, but here every religion except Christianity is taught at our schools. Announcements are made about Hannukah, Ramadan, and other religious holydays, but mention either C word or the dreaded J word and your likely to be expelled. Teachers can go in depth and have geust speakers about other Religions, but nothing can be said about Christianity. Not very tolerant.

WL_southerner wrote:all hail the mighty god andy dufresne

I like his solution to it all.


--Andy

DIRESTRAITS wrote:

Backglass wrote:

DIRESTRAITS wrote:Also, you guys are typically the same ones who talk about tolerance of everyone, but apparently that doesnt extend to Christians

What is there to tolerate if you pray/preach/thump and condemn in the privacy of your own home or church? Nothing! Except they don't do that, do they. Commandments MUST be posted at taxpayer funded sites. Prayer MUST be allowed in public school. Intelligent design MUST be taught in public schools. I wont tolerate ANY of that...and neither would they, were it any other religion but christianity.

I dont know where you live, but here every religion except Christianity is taught at our schools. Announcements are made about Hannukah, Ramadan, and other religious holydays, but mention either C word or the dreaded J word and your likely to be expelled. Teachers can go in depth and have geust speakers about other Religions, but nothing can be said about Christianity. Not very tolerant.[/quote]

I disagree, my teachers have gone into depth more about christianity than any other religion.. they've taught about every form of protestantism practically...I've never heard an anouncement about another religious holiday at school except for christmas.

DIRESTRAITS wrote:I dont know where you live, but here every religion except Christianity is taught at our schools.

Please define "taught". Is it a religious history class or some such? Sure, fine, no problem. But intelligent design for example is strictly a christian invention. I am guessing you don't live in Kansas. I am in NY btw.

DIRESTRAITS wrote:Announcements are made about Hannukah, Ramadan, and other religious holydays

What kind of announcements please.

DIRESTRAITS wrote:but mention either C word or the dreaded J word and your likely to be expelled.

Bullshit. Now you are talking like jay and repeating religious right propaganda and fear tactics.

DIRESTRAITS wrote:Teachers can go in depth and have guest speakers about other Religions, but nothing can be said about Christianity. Not very tolerant.

Bullshit...more propaganda. Please site an example where a teacher was allowed to have public speakers from all religious walks of life EXCEPT christianity...and what was the topic of the class. (And just in case you come back with "My School" please be prepared to give me the name of the school and teachers so that I may call them and confirm...I have no problem doing that.)

i think no religion should be taught in any school. there is no need to teach any religion in schools. and a kid should not be subjected to it till they are 16 then they can pick there own religion if they wish to do so

WL_southerner wrote:i think no religion should be taught in any school. there is no need to teach any religion in schools. and a kid should not be subjected to it till they are 16 then they can pick there own religion if they wish to do so

EXACTLY. Save it for college...and if someone chooses to take a course on god/jesus/leprechauns, ANYTHING...be my guest. But it's THEIR money paying the tuition...not mine & yours.

Backglass wrote:

DIRESTRAITS wrote:I dont know where you live, but here every religion except Christianity is taught at our schools.

Please define "taught". Is it a religious history class or some such? Sure, fine, no problem. But intelligent design for example is strictly a christian invention. I am guessing you don't live in Kansas. I am in NY btw.

DIRESTRAITS wrote:Announcements are made about Hannukah, Ramadan, and other religious holydays

What kind of announcements please.

DIRESTRAITS wrote:but mention either C word or the dreaded J word and your likely to be expelled.

Bullshit. Now you are talking like jay and repeating religious right propaganda and fear tactics.

DIRESTRAITS wrote:Teachers can go in depth and have guest speakers about other Religions, but nothing can be said about Christianity. Not very tolerant.

Bullshit...more propaganda. Please site an example where a teacher was allowed to have public speakers from all religious walks of life EXCEPT christianity...and what was the topic of the class. (And just in case you come back with "My School" please be prepared to give me the name of the school and teachers so that I may call them and confirm...I have no problem doing that.)

I live in Oregon. Sunset High School. First of all, it was a religion unit in history class. While covering Islam a Muslim in my class constantly chimed in about how great Islam was and how Christians only want the destruction of Islam. When I tried to talk about the beliefs of Christianity I was shut down by the teacher. Kind of Anouncements are announcements over the intercom, in homeroom, and signs in halls. As for the J and C words, yes, I was exagerating, except for Christmas. The words Merry Christmas and Christmas Break were officially taken out of the school's vocabulary. And One of my friends said a Buddhist Monk came to his class last year(hes a year older than me)

P.S. I dont believe Intelligent Design should be taught in schools. I think the basic principles of evolution should bre taught, and kids should be able to figure out how it happened for themselves.

Oh, and when are the Fundamentalists gonna show up and start bashing me for believing in Evolution?

DIRESTRAITS wrote:As far as evolution goes, heres how I see it. Christians cant prove that the world was entirely created in 7 days. Evolutionists cant prove how evolution started. It seems to me that God made everything using Evolution.

Er, actually, we do know how it started, but that doesn't depend on evolution. Several experiments have shown that abiogenesis can occur, in which water, sun, and heat have created single cell organisms.

DIRESTRAITS wrote:I live in Oregon. Sunset High School. First of all, it was a religion unit in history class. While covering Islam a Muslim in my class constantly chimed in about how great Islam was and how Christians only want the destruction of Islam. When I tried to talk about the beliefs of Christianity I was shut down by the teacher.

This is a far cry from "every religion except Christianity is taught at our schools". If the class is discussing one topic and you start talking about the merits of a different topic, why shouldn't the teacher stop you from de-railing the entire class?

DIRESTRAITS wrote:Kind of Anouncements are announcements over the intercom, in homeroom, and signs in halls.

More info please. Announcements over the intercom that say what exactly? "Everyone have a happy ramadam this weekend?"

DIRESTRAITS wrote:And One of my friends said a Buddhist Monk came to his class last year(hes a year older than me)

OK...second hand account so hard to get the facts...but do you know what was he there to talk about?

Backglass wrote:

DIRESTRAITS wrote:And One of my friends said a Buddhist Monk came to his class last year(hes a year older than me)

OK...second hand account so hard to get the facts...but do you know what was he there to talk about?

Hope he was there to show some wu-tang style kung-fu!

Hmm, maybe thats a shaolin monk. I don't mind paing taxes for that!

Jesus said to, "Go into all the world and preach the Good News". He did not say hide in your home and worship there so as not to offend the unbeliever.

DIRESTRAITS if you want to believe in evolution and Christianity be my guest. Its just not consistent with God's Word. God created Adam from the dust of the Earth.... not evolved from other life forms.

jay_a2j wrote:Jesus said to, "Go into all the world and preach the Good News". He did not say hide in your home and worship there so as not to offend the unbeliever.

DIRESTRAITS if you want to believe in evolution and Christianity be my guest. Its just not consistent with God's Word. God created Adam from the dust of the Earth.... not evolved from other life forms.

I think God created your brain out of dust

Genesis is an extended metaphor for the scientific factors that created and formed the world. 3000 years ago, If you told people they had evolved over billions of years, they would have laughed you out of Israel. Thats why the Bible isnt literal. It wouldn't have been accepted.

Im sitting here waiting for Caleb to come and call me a heretic who will burn in hell

Just out of interest (if you don't mind me asking) what different branches of Christianity do you come from Jay_a2j and Direstraits? It's quite interesting for me to see a Christian to Christian debate on this subject - I just wanted to get a handle on whether you would say your view point is representative of your church's stance.

Tell me to butt out if you want though!

I dont know about jay, but Im a Catholic

Jesse, Bad Boy wrote:
Er, actually, we do know how it started, but that doesn't depend on evolution. Several experiments have shown that abiogenesis can occur, in which water, sun, and heat have created single cell organisms.

Don't mean to knock you're argument mate - but as far as I was aware this has never been demonstrated in a laboratory. I know of experiments where amino acids and proteins (the "building blocks" of life) have been created using high voltage passed through chemical "soups", but never where actual organism has been created.

flashleg8 wrote:

Jesse, Bad Boy wrote:
Er, actually, we do know how it started, but that doesn't depend on evolution. Several experiments have shown that abiogenesis can occur, in which water, sun, and heat have created single cell organisms.

Don't mean to knock you're argument mate - but as far as I was aware this has never been demonstrated in a laboratory. I know of experiments where amino acids and proteins (the "building blocks" of life) have been created using high voltage passed through chemical "soups", but never where actual organism has been created.

Abiogenesis (AKA Spontaneous Generation) is bunk.

DIRESTRAITS wrote:I dont know about jay, but Im a Catholic

Would you say your viewpoint (could I summarise it as: God exist and created the universe, the process of evolution exists [controlled by God], Genesis should be taken as a metaphor for the creation of life on earth[i.e. 7 days could mean over several epochs]?) is the one commonly held throughout the Catholic Church - and taught in Catholic schools?

DIRESTRAITS wrote: I think God created your brain out of dust

Genesis is an extended metaphor for the scientific factors that created and formed the world. 3000 years ago, If you told people they had evolved over billions of years, they would have laughed you out of Israel. Thats why the Bible isnt literal. It wouldn't have been accepted.

Im sitting here waiting for Caleb to come and call me a heretic who will burn in hell

This is what happens when the Catholic Church discourages the reading of scripture. Its not a "metaphor". Please stick to facts not opinion.


flashleg I am Christian...non-denominational /Pentecostal.

jay_a2j wrote:This is what happens when the Catholic Church discourages the reading of scripture. Its not a "metaphor". Please stick to facts not opinion.


flashleg I am Christian...non-denominational /Pentecostal.

Pentecostal is not non-denominational. It's Pentecostal.

As far as I know, the Vatican is pretty vaugue about the whole thing, which is more liberal than any other sect. Post-Vatican 2, the Catholic Church pretty much leaves it up to the individual.(someone correct me if I am wrong)

I have no idea whats taught at Catholic Schools, because I go to Public. Im not a frickin Jesbian

jay_a2j wrote:
flashleg I am Christian...non-denominational /Pentecostal.

Thanks, I'm not too familiar with the Pentecostal movement - would I be correct in saying this is similar to the "born again" Christian movement in the UK?

Edit: And your view is that the Scripture is literally correct and that the author is God himself (working through the prophets etc)?

jay_a2j wrote:

DIRESTRAITS wrote: I think God created your brain out of dust

Genesis is an extended metaphor for the scientific factors that created and formed the world. 3000 years ago, If you told people they had evolved over billions of years, they would have laughed you out of Israel. Thats why the Bible isnt literal. It wouldn't have been accepted.

Im sitting here waiting for Caleb to come and call me a heretic who will burn in hell

This is what happens when the Catholic Church discourages the reading of scripture. Its not a "metaphor". Please stick to facts not opinion.


flashleg I am Christian...non-denominational /Pentecostal.

Your opinion that it isnt a metaphor is just as valid as mine that it is.

DIRESTRAITS wrote: I have no idea whats taught at Catholic Schools, because I go to Public. Im not a frickin Jesbian

Sorry! It's just that Catholic schools are very common where I live (Scotland), they are mainstream and state funded. Most Catholics here would attend a Catholic school - not just the devote people. They would teach the Scottish syllabus (thus secular) while retaining their faith for assemblies/school services etc. Just wondered if it was similar in the States.