CCup 4 format discussion (ver 5, p. 28)

[chapcrap]

I'm totally against exclusion of any kind apart from the current minimum requirement.

That's pretty much how I feel.

[IcePack]

I'm totally against exclusion of any kind apart from the current minimum requirement.

There isn't really any requirements. You have to be eligible for CDF (which is just to exist as a clan?) and meet Dako approval (not clarified). So basically any group w 10 members can join.

There used to be a 2 war completed rule which hasnt been in Dakos draft(s).

[Emmdizzle]

I like the system of the draw that qwert has illustrated in his diagram. Very sensible and logical.

I agree with CoF...qwert/josko have some very good ideas.

[Emmdizzle]

we could put it to a vote of clan leaders

[jetsetwilly]

I do like the idea of doing the random draw for each round because as Qwert says it does add some excitement. We would have to decide whether to delay a draw because one tie overran or allow the others to move forward by putting them both in the hat as Winner of Clan A vs Clan B.

Unless everyone here comes out in support, the seeding and draw format should probably go over to cd&friends for a vote.

There is already vote running on how many times a map can be used through each tie/the whole competition.

[Chariot of Fire]

Perhaps for the 1 map per round rule it could be added "this may be increased subject to agreement by both clans". This way we retain the negotiation that is common for all challenges, but at the same time the 1 map per round rule can be upheld if a clan prefers it. It prevents such repetitive use of some maps, which really is just an advantage to a clan who isn't very good at cross-mapping. Each battleground should be unique, not simply 'same old same old' again and again.

[Seulessliathan]

I support to make a rule against time out. That is just annoying abuse of game mechanics which is maybe tolerated in freestyle speed game, but should be banned from clan tourneys. Has anyone ever suggested that you always get a card after conquering a ter, even if you time out?

Allowing the use of maps only once per round makes sense to me, there are so many maps, no need to play the same maps over and over again.

Will take a look at seeding/draw/bracket system later.

[Qwert]

i will work on scheme for 36 clans---

by jetsetwilly on Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:48 am
I do like the idea of doing the random draw for each round because as Qwert says it does add some excitement. We would have to decide whether to delay a draw because one tie overran or allow the others to move forward by putting them both in the hat as Winner of Clan A vs Clan B.

Unless everyone here comes out in support, the seeding and draw format should probably go over to cd&friends for a vote.

There is already vote running on how many times a map can be used through each tie/the whole competition.

well i think that its best to make draws where you have clear winners, these mean that you dont need to waith chalenge to be official ended to start draws.
Example- in one match team A leads 21-14( winner are decided), you can make draw without wait to match be official ended.
You make draw and then teams can prepare for round 2.
Ofcourse like you say,,if one match are not clear winner ,when all other are decided, then you can add in hat (Winner Round 1 Team A vs Team 2) vs ( one Team from 9 to 16 place). These will look like(its for 32 team example):
pot 1---------------vs------------ pot 2
(one Winner round 1) vs (one team from 9 to 16 place)
(one Winner round 1) vs (one team from 9 to 16 place)
(one Winner round 1) vs (one team from 9 to 16 place)
(one Winner round 1) vs (one team from 9 to 16 place)
(one Winner round 1) vs (one team from 9 to 16 place)
(one Winner round 1) vs (one team from 9 to 16 place)
(one Winner round 1) vs (one team from 9 to 16 place)
(Winner from Team A vs Team B) vs (one team from 9 to 16 place)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Qwert]

Perhaps for the 1 map per round rule it could be added "this may be increased subject to agreement by both clans". This way we retain the negotiation that is common for all challenges, but at the same time the 1 map per round rule can be upheld if a clan prefers it. It prevents such repetitive use of some maps, which really is just an advantage to a clan who isn't very good at cross-mapping. Each battleground should be unique, not simply 'same old same old' again and again.

well we have over 200 maps, if we stick to 1 map per round ,these mean that only small number of maps will be used.
For first and second round only 20 maps
third and fourth round will be increase for 10 (20 repeated from previous round)
and in last round will be increase for 10 new (30 repeated from previous round)

These meant that one clan will be use maximum 40 diferent maps for entire competition (out of over 200 diferent maps)

[Chariot of Fire]

Perhaps for the 1 map per round rule it could be added "this may be increased subject to agreement by both clans". This way we retain the negotiation that is common for all challenges, but at the same time the 1 map per round rule can be upheld if a clan prefers it. It prevents such repetitive use of some maps, which really is just an advantage to a clan who isn't very good at cross-mapping. Each battleground should be unique, not simply 'same old same old' again and again.

well we have over 200 maps, if we stick to 1 map per round ,these mean that only small number of maps will be used.
For first and second round only 20 maps
third and fourth round will be increase for 10 (20 repeated from previous round)
and in last round will be increase for 10 new (30 repeated from previous round)

These meant that one clan will be use maximum 40 diferent maps for entire competition (out of over 200 diferent maps)

I don't think you understand. A map can only be used once per round, i.e if it is a 41-game challenge a clan has to choose 20 different maps. What the heck were you thinking, one map only? lol

[Qwert]

Perhaps for the 1 map per round rule it could be added "this may be increased subject to agreement by both clans". This way we retain the negotiation that is common for all challenges, but at the same time the 1 map per round rule can be upheld if a clan prefers it. It prevents such repetitive use of some maps, which really is just an advantage to a clan who isn't very good at cross-mapping. Each battleground should be unique, not simply 'same old same old' again and again.

well we have over 200 maps, if we stick to 1 map per round ,these mean that only small number of maps will be used.
For first and second round only 20 maps
third and fourth round will be increase for 10 (20 repeated from previous round)
and in last round will be increase for 10 new (30 repeated from previous round)

These meant that one clan will be use maximum 40 diferent maps for entire competition (out of over 200 diferent maps)

I don't think you understand. A map can only be used once per round, i.e if it is a 41-game challenge a clan has to choose 20 different maps. What the heck were you thinking, one map only? lol

Maybe you dont understand -its says one diferent map per round
Team A
round 1-Use 20 diferent home maps
Round 2-Use same 20 diferent home maps
Round 3 -Use Same 20 diferent home maps+ 10 new maps
Round 4-Use same 30 diferent home maps
Round 5 USe same 30 diferent home maps
Round 5-Use same 30 diferent home maps + 10 new maps
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
So one clan can repeat same maps in each round/

[Vid_FISO]

So you advocate making things even easier for the top clans?

Those that get a round 1 bye don't use any maps at all to make round 2 then face a clan that has had to use some of their best maps to get into round 2. For any of the lower/ mid ranked clans that make round 3 they've used 40 maps, top clans have used 20, unless there is a play in round and first round bye in which case they've still used no maps = slaughter!

[Chariot of Fire]

Well right now it is even worse, because a clan's 20 games can be just 10 maps. And they can use them again and again each round. So I don't see what your point is. Do you like the existing "a map may be used twice each round" rule, or do you prefer "a map may be be used just once each round" rule?

And what is ViD_FISO on about? ffs, once a round (i.e. one challenge) is over it's over, and everything reverts to normal. No-one has said "A map may only be used once all tournament"

[Chariot of Fire]

Here's an easy example.

Let's say I kick ass on WW2 Ardennes, no spoils, fog, adjacent forts.

Do you think it is fair in a challenge that I can use that same map & settings twice (1 x trips & 1 x quads) which would constitute 10% of my clan's chosen maps? Or would you rather see such a map/settings only being able to used once each round, i.e. I can choose WW2 Ardennes once in Round of 16 and once in semi-finals, etc etc ??

I'm just trying to eliminate the scenario where a clan relies on one player to earn all their wins. With a 16 game quota a star player can be in 16 games on just 8 maps. 8 maps is a large percentage of 41 games. It's why stronger clans excel in this type of tournament - the win rate is too high for certain maps with certain players and it's not truly representative of a clan challenge.

[Vid_FISO]

And what is ViD_FISO on about? ffs, once a round (i.e. one challenge) is over it's over, and everything reverts to normal. No-one has said "A map may only be used once all tournament"

qwert is saying that any clan only has to use a maximum of 30 maps in the whole comp out of 200 available, so what is he asking for otherwise???

[Chariot of Fire]

qwert is right in that a clan only has to use 30 maps the entire tournament if we implement a "one map per round" rule. Right now, as the rules stand, a clan only has to use 15 maps the entire tournament. I find this intrinsically wrong and believe it should change.

[Vid_FISO]

qwert is right in that a clan only has to use 30 maps the entire tournament if we implement a "one map per round" rule. Right now, as the rules stand, a clan only has to use 15 maps the entire tournament. I find this intrinsically wrong and believe it should change.

Got to admit as one of the weakest clans that doubling up on maps does us no favours most of the time, there is a tendency at the moment to drop one of a regular quads team for the trips and drop another and stick in someone that doesn't know the map/ doesn't work so well with the other 3 and lose both. CL5 is proving interesting having to use 40 different maps for the qualification stage and at a least a further 38 (we may well drop some of the 40) for the league stage.

[Vid_FISO]

As an after-thought, any mileage in allowing a map + settings to be repeated but with a completely different line-up?

[Qwert]

lol,,chariot i dont proposed anything i just read rules in page 1.
Mine sugestion its to use one map 2 or maybe 3 time in entire competition

[Qwert]

So you advocate making things even easier for the top clans?

Those that get a round 1 bye don't use any maps at all to make round 2 then face a clan that has had to use some of their best maps to get into round 2. For any of the lower/ mid ranked clans that make round 3 they've used 40 maps, top clans have used 20, unless there is a play in round and first round bye in which case they've still used no maps = slaughter!

I advocate that low ranked clans had chance in first round to play agains similar or equal strengt clans, to have opportunity to have chance for medal. If high ranked clans play right in Round 1, then you have small chance to make round 2.

[Vid_FISO]

So you advocate making things even easier for the top clans?

Those that get a round 1 bye don't use any maps at all to make round 2 then face a clan that has had to use some of their best maps to get into round 2. For any of the lower/ mid ranked clans that make round 3 they've used 40 maps, top clans have used 20, unless there is a play in round and first round bye in which case they've still used no maps = slaughter!

I advocate that low ranked clans had chance in first round to play agains similar or equal strengt clans, to have opportunity to have chance for medal. If high ranked clans play right in Round 1, then you have small chance to make round 2.

Personally I think we have a very small chance regardless, but there will be others currently in the lower ranks that could well provide an upset or two if not handicapped.

[Chariot of Fire]

As an after-thought, any mileage in allowing a map + settings to be repeated but with a completely different line-up?

No. It would just lead to sitting abuse (or claims of). Probably not worth the aggravation, nor the effort to have to check previous line-ups.

[Crazyirishman]

At minimum the map limit should be only once per round, just to expand the map variety. I kinda like the limit maps to 2 uses per tourney.

[IcePack]

Wow. My excitement for CC4 is pretty much gone.

Radom draws and map limits for entire tournament? Wtf happened to simple bracket tournament funished by regular clan wars?!? Seriously.

[Chariot of Fire]

There was a good point made that a clan that had to start from the prelims would maybe have used its good maps to reach the Round of 16, whereas a top-seeded clan would be starting in that round with a full complement of maps. So I don't think limits per tourney work as it's unfair to the early starters.