Random Historical Mafia(The Gunpowder Plot); Town Win!

[TimWoodbury]

Cheers william?? Got a wiki link for this dude i find lots of williams but no chwers william

[dakky21]

Cheers william?? Got a wiki link for this dude i find lots of williams but no chwers william

you're kidding right? william is the host of the game, LOL

[Metsfanmax]

I will grant that it is possible that BuJaber does have a town role like "King's double" in which he is intended to claim king and draw fire away from the real King, but that's very different from him being scum and fakeclaiming King.

That's exactly what I'm trying to say here.

If the reason the King isn't counter-claiming is because he knows there's a town double for him, then that would confirm that BuJaber is town. If the King doesn't know whether he has a double and is thus reluctant to counter-claim on the off chance that it'll get his double lynched, I suppose that's possible, but let's remember that (1) you're the one who invented this possible double, which is rather convenient for you given that you're up against a lynch right now and (2) even if this was actually the case, that doesn't say anything about BuJaber's alignment other than confirm that he is possibly scum, which isn't news because everyone is possibly scum until confirmed otherwise. All it would say is that BuJaber is not fully cleared.

The real King won't counterclaim to avoid being night-killed by mafia

No, I already explained that this is not a sufficient justification unless the King has some sort of godlike power that wouldn't justify trading him for a mafia. And even if that was the case, there's no way BuJaber could have known that, so he would have been taking a stupidly large risk by fakeclaiming King. Which I suppose is possible, but it's not enough to lynch over!

If I'm lynched today, no lynch will happen, and mafia will probably try to kill me tonight unless someone protects me.

OK, but you've already claimed lynchproof. So it doesn't matter what we do now, mafia will either choose to shoot you or not, depending on how much they care about that. So the only consequence from trying to lynch you (assuming you are telling the truth) is that we don't lynch someone else. Having you confirmed as lynchproof is a pretty good thing for us to know. Possibly mafia kills you tonight and we can never use your lynch-proof status to our benefit, but that is out of town's hands now, by virtue of the fact that you claimed it. Our choice to attempt to lynch you or not has nothing to do with that.

Also, claiming grandiose things like lynchproof is completely up dakky's alley and it does make me believe slightly more that he is lying and is indeed scum.

[dakky21]

Mets, it looks like you're governing a no-lynch to me. Like you want it. Like you don't care about it.
Sorry, I have no other option than try to lynch you. BuJaber may be lying but you are a stronger case at this moment.

unvote, vote mets

[Metsfanmax]

This isn't just a "no lynch" where we leave the day with no further information than when we started it. If we try to lynch you and we can't, that confirms you as non-scum. That seems like pretty useful intel to me. Or do you object to that? Seems like if you were town you would be happy for us to know that you are too.

[madmitch]

Lynch proof is a ability a King should have, but also I thought the mod said a lynch happens when 50% was reached, or did I read that wrong.

[dakky21]

This isn't just a "no lynch" where we leave the day with no further information than when we started it. If we try to lynch you and we can't, that confirms you as non-scum. That seems like pretty useful intel to me. Or do you object to that? Seems like if you were town you would be happy for us to know that you are too.

I don't see how it confirms me as non-scum? It only confirms me as non-lynchable, but the alignment is still hidden. That intel won't brought you anything, while the D1 lynch will be wasted. I could be non lynchable mafia as well, though I'm town in this game. So still don't see why are you pushing so hard.

[Metsfanmax]

This isn't just a "no lynch" where we leave the day with no further information than when we started it. If we try to lynch you and we can't, that confirms you as non-scum. That seems like pretty useful intel to me. Or do you object to that? Seems like if you were town you would be happy for us to know that you are too.

I don't see how it confirms me as non-scum? It only confirms me as non-lynchable, but the alignment is still hidden. That intel won't brought you anything, while the D1 lynch will be wasted. I could be non lynchable mafia as well, though I'm town in this game. So still don't see why are you pushing so hard.

Lynchproof mafia is insanely broken and would only happen under very specific conditions where town had an adequate amount of roles to be able to deal with it. Also, you complain about BuJaber's role being "overpowered" yet your own claimed status of unlynchable is also pretty overpowered, so should we disbelieve you because of it? (Lynchproof is usually only one-shot.)

[Metsfanmax]

As for why I'm pushing this line of reasoning: I have gone on record many times in saying that D1 lynches are crap. A necessarily evil, to be sure, but most of the time you hit town due to the statistics of the situation. So I will always take a sure bet that gives us essentially the same info on D1 rather than a coin toss.

[BuJaber]

And if I was the King, I wouldn't counterclaim you, better you get lynched than me. It's better for the town...

This makes no sense. The whole point of counterclaiming is to ensure that the other person gets lynched. If you were King and you counterclaimed him, BuJaber would be insta-lynched as a matter of policy. You would know that he was lying and therefore probably scum, so it would make sense. You wouldn't be at risk of a lynch, you would be if anything at risk of a mafia night-kill.

I will grant that it is possible that BuJaber does have a town role like "King's double" in which he is intended to claim king and draw fire away from the real King, but that's very different from him being scum and fakeclaiming King.

That's exactly what I'm trying to say here. The real King won't counterclaim to avoid being night-killed by mafia and it's better to lynch "King's double" than the King himself. As I already said, I find BuJaber's claim overpowered and thus believe he is lying, either to be a King, or to have a multi use veto power on a lynch. If he can prevent any lynch all the time (and uses his power on every lynch), the mafia will kill us one-by-one till whole town is dead. Overpowered role, not easily believable.

My role is only overpowered if you believe that I am exactly who I say I am but instead of town, I'm scum. That's for you to decide if you think william would actually do that.

mitch - It makes perfect sense for the king to be governor because in many countries kings/governors/person in charge have the power to pardon someone from being executed. Even if it doesn't make sense.. I don't care. I was pressured to claim, and since I'm town, I told the truth.

Like I said before I don't like the first post by Mets.. Because I don't want it to be a habit of people. However since then Mets has played as a townie. He's probably the only one I'm fairly confident about.

Dakky raises good points about his claim, BUT voting mets is a really bad move if you're town. So my vote stays on him.

Actually there is a pretty genius play that I think dakky is capable of doing. Think about this guys: I claimed king governor. Wing already suggested that dakky and I may be in on it together. Now assume I'm telling the truth, and that dakky is lynchproof scum. By telling us that he's lynchproof we can try to lynch him to verify it. After which of course he survives, he can then say "I lied guys, I'm not lynchproof, Buj must have saved me.. lynch him". It would be a very nice tactic.

Everyone vote dakky. And then if he survives and we have a vig... shoot him.

[BuJaber]

Is Tim joking around or is he always easily confused?

[Metsfanmax]

Tim is always easily confused.

[Metsfanmax]

Actually there is a pretty genius play that I think dakky is capable of doing. Think about this guys: I claimed king governor. Wing already suggested that dakky and I may be in on it together. Now assume I'm telling the truth, and that dakky is lynchproof scum. By telling us that he's lynchproof we can try to lynch him to verify it. After which of course he survives, he can then say "I lied guys, I'm not lynchproof, Buj must have saved me.. lynch him". It would be a very nice tactic.

Maybe that is what he is trying, but it won't work. Obviously a mafia governor who could stop any lynch would break the game, because they could stop any mafia from getting lynched and then just kill everyone. So if dakky survives, he's lynchproof. No one's going to believe his claim that you are a mafia governor. The only alternative is that you're town governor and stopped the lynch because you think he's town, but since you obviously don't think he's town, that's not going to happen.

[dakky21]

I'm waiting for a wasted lynch since you won't accept my reasoning. Mitch likes to hammer... Mitch where are you?

Bu, don't save me from a lynch. Instead, if there is a doctor, protect me.

I don't trust Bu & Mets at all.

[HotShot53]

At this point, it seems like Dakky is softclaiming unlynchable king with some other bonus powers, while BuJaber is claiming King with Governor powers. Dakky throws out that maybe BuJaber is his double that claims king in order to protect the real king... but is currently voting BuJaber, so he must not believe his own story. Out of the two claims, BuJaber's seems more believable. Since if he is unlynchable voting him won't hurt really, while if he is scum it will help a lot... so I will go ahead and hammer and vote Dakky

[dakky21]

At this point, it seems like Dakky is softclaiming unlynchable king with some other bonus powers, while BuJaber is claiming King with Governor powers. Dakky throws out that maybe BuJaber is his double that claims king in order to protect the real king... but is currently voting BuJaber, so he must not believe his own story. Out of the two claims, BuJaber's seems more believable. Since if he is unlynchable voting him won't hurt really, while if he is scum it will help a lot... so I will go ahead and hammer and vote Dakky

That is a lynch, but since I'm not lynchable, good waste of a vote and a no lynch D1. Doctors please protect me during night, I am sure mafia will target me as this is the only way they can kill me.

[Iron Butterfly]

Tim, as it was said before, Joker (the bad guy from Batman) can be town aligned or mafia aligned. Names aren't important as anyone can be anyone (or anything).

Dakky do you still stand by this statement you made?

[Metsfanmax]

Obviously any doctor(s) in the game should not feel obligated to protect dakky if he ends up not being lynched, because if mafia thinks you are going to definitely do that, they'll just shoot someone else.

[dakky21]

Tim, as it was said before, Joker (the bad guy from Batman) can be town aligned or mafia aligned. Names aren't important as anyone can be anyone (or anything).

Dakky do you still stand by this statement you made?

I'm lynched, will answer you after the scene, but basically yes.

Obviously any doctor(s) in the game should not feel obligated to protect dakky if he ends up not being lynched, because if mafia thinks you are going to definitely do that, they'll just shoot someone else.

Correctly, but I hope for a no-lynch scene before the night begins, so doctor(s) can protect me during night. They could protect me indefinitely but I doubt mafia will try to shoot anyone else either way. I'm too big asset to the town so let's see what happens at night.

[Metsfanmax]

If you're telling the truth, then you're not that important to town, though it's nice to have a lynch proof player. But more importantly, you're not actually a high priority target to mafia. Now that they know your role, they can kill you at any time, and if they're smart then they'll do so only when your presence threatens the mechanics of them winning, and there's no guarantee we even get to that point. They have a much higher incentive to go after cops and doctors right now. So it would be a big waste for the doctor to protect you indefinitely when we have higher value things to worry about.

[dakky21]

If you're telling the truth, then you're not that important to town, though it's nice to have a lynch proof player.

If I'm telling the truth (and I am) why am I not important to town? Why is it nice to have a lynch proof player? So you can get a no lynch every day? You're still my number one suspect Mets, sorry about that.. but you keep saying things like that and act like you support the no lynch option.

[Metsfanmax]

If you're telling the truth, then you're not that important to town, though it's nice to have a lynch proof player.

If I'm telling the truth (and I am) why am I not important to town? Why is it nice to have a lynch proof player? So you can get a no lynch every day?

Uh, no. Do you think that if I was scum I would be moronic enough to try and push for a second lynch on you if you don't die today? I've already gone on record as essentially saying that you're confirmed clear from mafia if you survive the lynch, since I think lynchproof scum is game-breaking. If you survive the lynch then I'm going after someone else tomorrow.

[madmitch]

[quote="Metsfanmax"][quote="BuJaber"]
Actually there is a pretty genius play that I think dakky is capable of doing. Think about this guys: I claimed king governor. Wing already suggested that dakky and I may be in on it together. Now assume I'm telling the truth, and that dakky is lynchproof scum. By telling us that he's lynchproof we can try to lynch him to verify it. After which of course he survives, he can then say "I lied guys, I'm not lynchproof, Buj must have saved me.. lynch him". It would be a very nice tactic.
You are repeating what I said , I am starting to think maybe we were right to suspect you.

[madmitch]

[quote="Metsfanmax"][quote="BuJaber"]
Actually there is a pretty genius play that I think dakky is capable of doing. Think about this guys: I claimed king governor. Wing already suggested that dakky and I may be in on it together. Now assume I'm telling the truth, and that dakky is lynchproof scum. By telling us that he's lynchproof we can try to lynch him to verify it. After which of course he survives, he can then say "I lied guys, I'm not lynchproof, Buj must have saved me.. lynch him". It would be a very nice tactic.
You are repeating what I said , I am starting to think maybe we were right to suspect you.

[madmitch]

sorry don't know what happened.