Logic dictates that there is a God!

[MeDeFe]

I respect Blitzaholic, because He is the leader of the scoreboard.

[jay_a2j]

I'm sure that there are other verses that state His eternal existence but the one I know off hand is, "I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end."

Does this not assume that the bible is the exact word of god?

Do you agree that, as the bible has been first written, and then translated, from the eyes of humans, then there is a very real chance that the work contains errors?

You do capitalize the H when speaking about God.....its a respect thing. (for those of us who do respect Him)

Can you not show respect without using poor grammer? If God did invent language, as I assume that you believe, I'd have thought he'd have wanted to use it properly ...

I believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God. I believe that when God gave this Word to His people, that he was well aware ahead of time, (all-knowing), that they would write down His Word as it should be. I believe that after the original transcripts were translated (to English in particular) that it can not be exactly translated from one language to another. However, I believe the King James to be the most accurate English version. I do not believe the Bible contains errors. (Another "God would have prevented it" kind of thing).

[WL_southerner]

man invented god to explane what could not be explaned
man was before any god or gods

[AlgyTaylor]

I do not believe the Bible contains errors. (Another "God would have prevented it" kind of thing).

It's very hard to argue against that, mostly because what you're saying is totally cyclical. The argument is basically:

human 1: "the world is made out of peanuts. I read it in this book"
human 2: "what makes you believe that book?"
human 1: "the giant pink elephant wrote it. He's always right"
human 2: "what makes you think he's always right?"
human 1: "he told me that he was always right in the book"
human 2: "what makes the book right?"
human 1: "the giant pink elephant wrote it. he's always right."
human 2: "what makes you think he's always right?"
human 1: "he told me that he was always right in the book"
human 2: "what makes the book right?"
human 1: "the giant pink elephant wrote it. he's always right."
human 2: "what makes you think he's always right?"
human 1: "he told me that he was always right in the book"
human 2: "what makes the book right?"
human 1: "the giant pink elephant wrote it. he's always right."
human 2: "what makes you think he's always right?"
....

[jay_a2j]

I do not believe the Bible contains errors. (Another "God would have prevented it" kind of thing).

It's very hard to argue against that, mostly because what you're saying is totally cyclical. It's a bit like
human 1: "the world is made out of peanuts. I read it in this book"
human 2: "what makes you believe that book?"
human 1: "the giant pink elephant wrote it. He's always right"
human 2: "what makes you think he's always right?"
human 1: "he told me that he was always right in the book"
human 2: "what makes the book right?"
human 1: "the giant pink elephant wrote it. he's always right."
human 2: "what makes you think he's always right?"
human 1: "he told me that he was always right in the book"
human 2: "what makes the book right?"
human 1: "the giant pink elephant wrote it. he's always right."
human 2: "what makes you think he's always right?"
human 1: "he told me that he was always right in the book"
human 2: "what makes the book right?"
human 1: "the giant pink elephant wrote it. he's always right."
human 2: "what makes you think he's always right?"
....

Or something called FAITH. Heb11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see."

[Anarkistsdream]

I do not believe the Bible contains errors. (Another "God would have prevented it" kind of thing).

It's very hard to argue against that, mostly because what you're saying is totally cyclical. It's a bit like
human 1: "the world is made out of peanuts. I read it in this book"
human 2: "what makes you believe that book?"
human 1: "the giant pink elephant wrote it. He's always right"
human 2: "what makes you think he's always right?"
human 1: "he told me that he was always right in the book"
human 2: "what makes the book right?"
human 1: "the giant pink elephant wrote it. he's always right."
human 2: "what makes you think he's always right?"
human 1: "he told me that he was always right in the book"
human 2: "what makes the book right?"
human 1: "the giant pink elephant wrote it. he's always right."
human 2: "what makes you think he's always right?"
human 1: "he told me that he was always right in the book"
human 2: "what makes the book right?"
human 1: "the giant pink elephant wrote it. he's always right."
human 2: "what makes you think he's always right?"
....

Or something called FAITH. Heb11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see."

A bunch of guys sat around and made that line up because it would be easier to control the ignorant masses of the dark ages with this new thing called CHRISTIANITY!

[AlgyTaylor]

Faith's got bugger all to do with it. Time and time again, the only argument you can come up with is basically that the Bible says xxxxx so therefore it's true. That includes the "proof" that the Bible is correct.

example

"The moon is made out of cheese. I am always correct"

Therefore, the moon is made out of cheese, and the proof is there too - I said so, and I am always correct. Look, it's there in writing. All hail me!

Now that's obviously utter nonsense. But it's also what you are trying to pass off as proof.

I don't doubt that you - and many others like you - have faith in the bible. Please, try to explain WHY you have put your faith in it, rather than claiming that the proof is in the bible - because that argument is as watertight as my moon/cheese theory above.

[vtmarik]

I can answer that for him: He has faith because God, through some TV Preacher-guy, healed his MS.

I have a friend who also had terminal cancer, but God didn't heal her. Her healing was miraculous to say the least, but God had nothing to do with it as she isn't a Christian.

Mayhaps another force has the power to heal? You'll never convince him of that, because to him only God exists and only God can do that stuff!

[The1exile]

I can predict he will answer that God healed her anyway. The same god he says is going to kill all nonbelievers.

[jay_a2j]

yada, yada, yada

[vtmarik]

yada, yada, yada

I see you mocking me, but I don't see any meaningful content here.

Just taking up space again, eh Jay?

[unriggable]

Okay jay I understand where you are coming from but you have to remember that some of the things you are arguing are a bit unrealistic. I understand how the 'pink elephant' metaphor is dumb and so you say that nobody would take faith in a pink elephant, but then you assume this faith into physical, tangible thing.

[vtmarik]

Okay jay I understand where you are coming from but you have to remember that some of the things you are arguing are a bit unrealistic. I understand how the 'pink elephant' metaphor is dumb and so you say that nobody would take faith in a pink elephant, but then you assume this faith into physical, tangible thing.

Occam's razor goes like this: "All things being equal, the simplest explanation is the right one."

Now, let's assume for a second that all things are indeed equal, hypothetically (since they are anything but in reality). What's simpler:

* A being that has no origin creating everything from nothing, in defiance of the laws of conservation and the second law of thermodynamics (since a singular creator implies a closed system)
or
* A singularity exploding in a burst of tremendous energy and releasing the material and energy necessary for the formation of galaxies, planets, stars, etc.?

[Jamie]

I got this in an email today, and found it very interesting

Read all of this one, it is interesting!! Read down to the very bottom highlighted in green, IT GAVE ME GOOSEBUMPS!!! you don't want to miss this! ((*_*))


VERY INTERESTING-
1. The Garden of Eden was in Iraq.

2. Mesopotamia, which is now Iraq, was the cradle of civilization!

3. Noah built the ark in Iraq.

4. The Tower of Babel was in Iraq

5. Abraham was from Ur, which is in Southern Iraq!

6. Isaac's wife Rebekah is from Nahor, which is in Iraq!

7. Jacob met Rachel in Iraq.

8. Jonah preached in Nineveh -
which is in Iraq.

9. Assyria, which is in Iraq, conquered the ten tribes of Israel.

10 Amos cried out in Iraq!

11. Babylon, which is in Iraq, destroyed Jerusalem.

12. Daniel was in the lion's den in Iraq!

13. The three Hebrew children were in the fire in Iraq (Jesus had been in Iraq also as the fourth person in the
Fiery Furnace!)

14. Belshazzar, the King of Babylon saw the "writing on the wall" in Iraq.

15. Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, carried the Jews captive into Iraq.

16. Ezekiel preached in Iraq.

17. The wise men were from Iraq.

18. Peter preached in Iraq.

19. The "Empire of Man" described in
Revelation is called Babylon, which was
a city in Iraq!

And you have probably seen this one: Israel is the nation most often mentioned in the Bible. But do you know which nation is second? It is Iraq! However, that is not the name that is used in the Bible. The names used in the Bible are Babylon, Land ofShinar, and Mesopotamia . The word Mesopotamia means between the two rivers, more exactly between the Tigris
and Euphrates Rivers. The name Iraq, means country with deep roots.

Indeed Iraq is a country with deep roots and is a very significant country in the Bible.

No other nation, except Israel, has more history and prophecy associated
with it than Iraq.

And also, This is something to think about: Since America is typically represented by an eagle. Saddam should have read up on his Muslim passages...

The following verse is from the Koran, (the Islamic Bible)

Koran (9:11 ) - For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah;
and there was peace.
(Note the verse number!) Hmmmmmmm?!

I BETTER NOT HEAR OF ANYONE BREAKING THIS ONE OR SEE IT DELETED. This is a ribbon for soldiers fighting inIraq. Pass it on to everyone and pray. Something good will happen to you tonight at 11:11 PM. This is not a joke. someone will either call you or will talk to you online and say that they love you. Do not break this chain. Send this to 13 people in

the next 15 minutes. Go.

[salvadevinemasse]

I do not believe the Bible contains errors. (Another "God would have prevented it" kind of thing).

It's very hard to argue against that, mostly because what you're saying is totally cyclical. The argument is basically:

human 1: "the world is made out of peanuts. I read it in this book"
human 2: "what makes you believe that book?"
human 1: "the giant pink elephant wrote it. He's always right"
human 2: "what makes you think he's always right?"
human 1: "he told me that he was always right in the book"
human 2: "what makes the book right?"
human 1: "the giant pink elephant wrote it. he's always right."
human 2: "what makes you think he's always right?"
human 1: "he told me that he was always right in the book"
human 2: "what makes the book right?"
human 1: "the giant pink elephant wrote it. he's always right."
human 2: "what makes you think he's always right?"
human 1: "he told me that he was always right in the book"
human 2: "what makes the book right?"
human 1: "the giant pink elephant wrote it. he's always right."
human 2: "what makes you think he's always right?"
....

I dont know who you are but I love this post! I'm over here laughing my ass off! That was a wonderful thing to say to jay! And how true it is too..thats exactly how they are acting!
Love Salva

[jay_a2j]

Okay jay I understand where you are coming from but you have to remember that some of the things you are arguing are a bit unrealistic. I understand how the 'pink elephant' metaphor is dumb and so you say that nobody would take faith in a pink elephant, but then you assume this faith into physical, tangible thing.

I don't see the difficulty in it. If God is all powerful and all knowing and He in fact gave these people the words in which He wanted written down. Why is it so hard to believe that God would not allow these men to "mess it up". It would be like a head Chef watching his associates put sand in the cake batter when the recipe called for sugar. The Chef would most certainly stop this so as not to ruin the cake. And with God..... he would know about the sand before he even gave them the recipe.


So the thing here is you:

a) Believe the Bible was divinely inspired (making it perfect)

b) You believe these men wrote it on their own accord (which would be astounding in light of all the fulfilled prophesy within it)

[got tonkaed]

one could certainly argue that your b option presented is not as unlikely as you may pose....


Most of the writing in the new testament, is written of course after Jesus was alive. Dating efforts done by scholars have argued that most of the writing was not within the first few generations after Jesus life. As a result those people were writing about a historical figure who they believed to be the Christ. How difficult would it be for these people, who as Jews were very aware of what the prophecy concerning the messiah was, to tailor the new testament story to make Jesus the Christ figure.

Im not here to say Jesus as the messiah is by any means impossible, but neither is it very unlikely that the New testament writers who wrote after the fact, confirmed events that many accept as the historical story of Jesus for their own personal initaitives.

[WL_southerner]

very intresting jamie but a problem 1/ the garden of eden was not just iraq it was every where north of africa ( when homo sapeins cross the desert of north africa and got into europe and aisa )
3/ noah ark story came from the tribes that lived in the basin of the black sea when it got flooded after just after the last ice age, when the sea leavels started to rise due the melting of ice
babylon controlled the assyians
and seeing that the bible and koran where both writen in AD and not BC but i belive the jews have scrolls called torah whitch are much older
maybe saddam should of read nostradamus too i think there some thing about the twins = towers in the quads

[2dimes]

Hmm, what's this "torah" thingy, can you get copies in english?

I don't think Sadam can read.

[WL_southerner]

think maybe you are right about saddam not being able to read
i dont think there is any english copys of the torah think its is in only in hebrew but ask some one who is jewish they should be able to tell you alot more than i can, now if u asked about noct/quads i could of help you i have a 1960s and 1990s copys of his predictions

[LewisJB3]

Wow, Southener, that's interesting. Since the Torah is the first five books in the Bible. I'm almost positive that the Bible has been translated into english, lol.

Oh, and great job Jay, I just found this thread, I didn't read through it all because that would take all day, but you're doing a great job.

[2dimes]

Well this torah sure sounds good to me.

[neoni]

the torah is just the first five books of the bible, nothing more and nothing less. the old testament.

[heavycola]

Okay jay I understand where you are coming from but you have to remember that some of the things you are arguing are a bit unrealistic.

[WL_southerner]

i would not know what the torah says having not read it i would like to,but unlikey to