Crusades Mafia The English and a Survior Win!

[aage]

Guys, stop fussing around. This game says "there's a crusade, led by the english guy, go kill the muslims". I'm not about to go against Papal orders just yet, so for now I think there's no point in offering mercy to the enemies of the papal states.

Iliad is probably some pro-muslim bloke. I'm trying to figure a faction in crusade-time europe that didn't like going on a crusade but I can't really come up with anything.

Let's just kill the Muslim. If the maths are correct, the majority of the current players should be happy with lynching a muslim, so what's the big deal?

[aage]

The year is 1187, Saladin, Sultan of Egypt, has reconquered the city of Jerusalem from the Franks, nearly 100 years after they conquered the city in the First Crusade. The Pope has called for another crusade to win back the Holy Lands, and the French and English armies have arisen to the call. They are commanded by none other then Richard the Lionheart himself.

The Third Crusade has begun!

Read this please. I don't care what motives the French and the English exactly have, but I think it's unquestionable that we should kill all Muslim defenders (i.e. also Haggis).

[Haggis_McMutton]

The year is 1187, Saladin, Sultan of Egypt, has reconquered the city of Jerusalem from the Franks, nearly 100 years after they conquered the city in the First Crusade. The Pope has called for another crusade to win back the Holy Lands, and the French and English armies have arisen to the call. They are commanded by none other then Richard the Lionheart himself.

The Third Crusade has begun!

Read this please. I don't care what motives the French and the English exactly have, but I think it's unquestionable that we should kill all Muslim defenders (i.e. also Haggis).

So you don't care that after they finish killing the muslims, the english will then be easily killed of by the third faction(probably french)?

Well, guess the theory that you're not english gains weight.

[aage]

If French is indeed the other faction, I don't think it'll matter whether I'm part of it or part of the English faction. Stop trying to make me claim my role, it won't work. You should've been dead by now, by any means.

[Haggis_McMutton]

If French is indeed the other faction, I don't think it'll matter whether I'm part of it or part of the English faction. Stop trying to make me claim my role, it won't work. You should've been dead by now, by any means.

You just posted the mod quote saying that there are indeed french and english "armies".

So you think french and english are town, and they're just called french and english for the lulz?

Not really much of a twist there, would it?

It is pretty clear imo that french and english will fight one another(in game: the promised twist, the fact that they are segregated and not just crusaders, out of game, it's the french and the english, need i say more?)

[aage]

If the french and english are going to put up a fight, it'd be best if the muslim faction were down at that point. vote haggis <-- I suggest all french and english troopers copy-paste that.

[Haggis_McMutton]

If the french and english are going to put up a fight, it'd be best if the muslim faction were down at that point. vote haggis <-- I suggest all french and english troopers copy-paste that.

It'd be best for the french yes. Not so much for the english ...

[aage]

Because the English lost one bloke? lmao. The Muslims probably get another kill tonight. If you're as venerable as you say you are, I suggest you choose someone who smells of onions, wine and cheese. For now I'll say bye-bye. I can't even believe I'm discussing this with you

[Haggis_McMutton]

Because the English lost one bloke? lmao. The Muslims probably get another kill tonight. If you're as venerable as you say you are, I suggest you choose someone who smells of onions, wine and cheese. For now I'll say bye-bye. I can't even believe I'm discussing this with you

They lost one bloke and had the nice Mr. Saxlad go: "ok, I'm the english doctor, Tails is my patient, if i protect him for 2 more nights he gets an awesome power role".

So yeah, if he's telling the truth(which you seemed to accept) english are at a big disadvantage to french.

[Commander9]

Just a theoretical question - if there's a 3 player game with one faction being in front and other two behind, does the middle one (if it's smart) waste their resources on the weakest and give one the game or do they attack first and try to go for the win?

This is no simple game from what I've seen so far and I don't think it's as easy as some of you say. We don't even know if it's 3 factions or even something else in the game. As I've said before, saxlad has been the most suspicious guy to me the whole game and it still says the same.

Vote Saxlad.

[aage]

That's not a reason to let the muslim faction NK away. Every dead muslim is a step closer to Jerusalem. Every dead french or english guy is just a waste of time and resources.

Let me ask you a question, Commander9. Why do you think the English and the French have to fight each other in the end? Except that an investigated muslim tries to save his sorry ass by making the remark?

[Commander9]

That's not a reason to let the muslim faction NK away. Every dead muslim is a step closer to Jerusalem. Every dead french or english guy is just a waste of time and resources.

Let me ask you a question, Commander9. Why do you think the English and the French have to fight each other in the end? Except that an investigated muslim tries to save his sorry ass by making the remark?

Well, I don't usually consider myself easily manipulated and I don't think that it happened here either. This definitely has more than 1 faction (probably 3+), so I don't think it's a really good idea to let any off them completely out grow any other. There have been quite a few rather interesting characters through game which I would benefit from this more than most of us would, so I'm just trying to balance it out.

[naxus]

I think sax has two votes and haggis has three right now just for reference.

Also while Thesaxlad claimed doctor, Does he know what faction Tails is?

Right now im thinking theres four factions, French, English, and Islamic armies with a small third party group attached. While its possible that the French and English armies might have to fight it out, They are still allied against the Islamic army. So lets kill Haggis(someone ive investigated) and see where we are from there.

[aage]

That's not a reason to let the muslim faction NK away. Every dead muslim is a step closer to Jerusalem. Every dead french or english guy is just a waste of time and resources.

Let me ask you a question, Commander9. Why do you think the English and the French have to fight each other in the end? Except that an investigated muslim tries to save his sorry ass by making the remark?

Well, I don't usually consider myself easily manipulated and I don't think that it happened here either. This definitely has more than 1 faction (probably 3+), so I don't think it's a really good idea to let any off them completely out grow any other. There have been quite a few rather interesting characters through game which I would benefit from this more than most of us would, so I'm just trying to balance it out.

If I were town and there would be two mafia groups (which is what this game looks like from anyone's perspective, if you're right) it's best to eliminate one of the two mafia factions (relatively these are mafia factions, since they're "enemies" of anyone's faction). (This is getting very theoretical, I hope you're still with me.) This is because it would take away one random factor, i.e. the night kill of this third mafia faction, in this case the Muslim faction. Either faction is better off without them since neither of them can predict what side the muslims will choose, not to mention the fact that they will back stab the other two factions once these are decimated, or the unknown abilities these muslims have. Night kill? Does it stop there? English army seems to have a cop and a doc already, so if all factions are equal the muslims also have a doc and a cop which can also randomly tip the scales into either the English or the French faction's favor.

Think of it as spoils. If you're setting up a game you have to decide whether you'll play with spoils. They can work to your advantage, or they can kick your butt. This is randomly decided. Since I cannot talk to everyone else in my faction (for I do not know their names) I doubt the Muslims will, and thus their night actions will be divided randomly and could by accident end up to the advantage of one of the factions.

Either way, the best bet is to kill Haggis. Not only will it yield another victim in favor of either France or Brittain, but it will also put Naxus' claim to the test.

[edocsil]

VOTE COUNT

Haggis (3) ~ Naxus, Aage, Sax
Sax (3) ~ Iliad, Commander, Violet

[VioIet]

Edoc, I voted for sax...lad. How was it missed?

[edocsil]

fixed

[Haggis_McMutton]

If I were town and there would be two mafia groups (which is what this game looks like from anyone's perspective, if you're right) it's best to eliminate one of the two mafia factions (relatively these are mafia factions, since they're "enemies" of anyone's faction).
(This is getting very theoretical, I hope you're still with me.) This is because it would take away one random factor, i.e. the night kill of this third mafia faction, in this case the Muslim faction.

By the same logic, in a 3 player game it's ALWAYS best to eliminate one of the players, no matter what the situation? No because it doesn't matter wether you come in 2nd or you come in 3rd, you still lose.
If you are in the middle strength-wise then it absolutely is a bad move to help the strong guy kill off the weak guy, because guess what, you just killed off your only potential ally and now there's nowhere to hide.

Either faction is better off without them since neither of them can predict what side the muslims will choose, not to mention the fact that they will back stab the other two factions once these are decimated, or the unknown abilities these muslims have. Night kill? Does it stop there? English army seems to have a cop and a doc already, so if all factions are equal the muslims also have a doc and a cop which can also randomly tip the scales into either the English or the French faction's favor.

Pure speculation. I might as well say that maybe the muslims don't even have a NK anymore(which is quite possible). The only facts are: Muslim leader and second in command are down, this makes the muslims the weakest right now, so the "OMG they're going to kill us all" theories are really misplaced.
Moreover, you don't have to "trust" the muslims, the fact is, it's in the muslim's as well as the english's interest to take down the french a notch and level the playing field. Everybody wants to win.


Also, maybe a prod is needed? I think there's a couple guys who haven't posted in a while.

[aage]

Haggis, the story pretty much refers to the fact that there's europeans on the move who are going to kill some muslims. What part of that don't you get?

Yes, it is pure speculation, but nonetheless it's true. I don't know if this goes for English as well, but in Dutch there's a saying, "when two dogs fight for a bone the third walks away with it". In this case I think it's best to first get rid of that third dog, and then see how many bones we're actually talking about. We might not need to fight.

[aage]

Also, Haggis, do tell me why you're not voting or at least FoS'ing everyone who votes for theSaxLad? I mean, he claims to be English, and you're saying it's wise to kill French people. You might want to dig into that instead of sitting at the side saying "they're accusing me but killing me won't get them anywhere". Persuade me to vote someone else, if you can. I really don't see you trying anything yet. If you really believe what you're saying all the time, I find it strange you haven't done all that yet

[Haggis_McMutton]

Haggis, the story pretty much refers to the fact that there's europeans on the move who are going to kill some muslims. What part of that don't you get?

Yes, it is pure speculation, but nonetheless it's true. I don't know if this goes for English as well, but in Dutch there's a saying, "when two dogs fight for a bone the third walks away with it". In this case I think it's best to first get rid of that third dog, and then see how many bones we're actually talking about. We might not need to fight.

Except the two dogs fighting are the english and muslims. We both have men down and men compromised. And what are the french doing, waiting comfortably.

Also, in the first sentence you deny the existence of 3 groups, but in both the previous posts and even in the second sentence of this post you acknowledge the existence of 3 groups(dogs) ...

[Haggis_McMutton]

Also, Haggis, do tell me why you're not voting or at least FoS'ing everyone who votes for theSaxLad? I mean, he claims to be English, and you're saying it's wise to kill French people. You might want to dig into that instead of sitting at the side saying "they're accusing me but killing me won't get them anywhere". Persuade me to vote someone else, if you can. I really don't see you trying anything yet. If you really believe what you're saying all the time, I find it strange you haven't done all that yet

Uhm, because we actually have to make an alliance before i start fighting for you? Right now I'm trying to convince the english guys that what I'm saying makes sense.

Also, i get the feeling some of those voting for Sax might actually be english, but just don't buy his story ...

[aage]

Haggis, the story pretty much refers to the fact that there's europeans on the move who are going to kill some muslims. What part of that don't you get?

Yes, it is pure speculation, but nonetheless it's true. I don't know if this goes for English as well, but in Dutch there's a saying, "when two dogs fight for a bone the third walks away with it". In this case I think it's best to first get rid of that third dog, and then see how many bones we're actually talking about. We might not need to fight.

Except the two dogs fighting are the english and muslims. We both have men down and men compromised. And what are the french doing, waiting comfortably.

Also, in the first sentence you deny the existence of 3 groups, but in both the previous posts and even in the second sentence of this post you acknowledge the existence of 3 groups(dogs) ...

My example was referring to your scenario in which the French and the English arrive at the gates of Jeruzalem and say "hey, you know what, I actually don't like you". But okay, your scenario could be possible too... Except that you don't know my alignment, and you don't know the alignment of everyone who is scumarining. The muslims might be a fighting dog, but in that case he's fighting against the french and the english in the solution I put forward in that post you're quoting.

In the first sentence I deny nothing. I simply generalize the groups. French and English people take part in a crusade, that's what Edoc's story tells us. Thus I refer to them as europeans. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[Iliad]

Where the hell is everyone? There's only about 6 or so people here and we're stuck.

Let me spell this out again: aage has admitted to having some of kind of condition to eliminate Muslims. While lynching Haggis might be in his best interests, it definitely is not in the rest of us.

Meanwhile, saxlad has not even tried to defend himself nad I'm gonna take that as an admission and him trying to slide in under the carpet. Saxlad is most definitely allied with tails, and I'm thinking he's the French bodyguard, like / was the english one.

So to avoid the French getting too much power vote Saxlad and eliminate their doctor. Trust me, he is the French bodyguard.

[Thezzaruz]

So to avoid the French getting too much power vote Saxlad and eliminate their doctor. Trust me, he is the French bodyguard.

Why should I trust that? Any beans you like to spill?

Lynching Haggis seems like a safer bet to get rid of an opponent but I must admit that there is a lot of logic to the "don't allow aage to dictate the game" comments atm. So I'll have to go for a Vote TheSaxlad.



btw Edoc, maybe you shouldn't have / listed as both alive and dead.