Conquer Club

and not to throw anybody under the bus...

but why did i get a warning and [player]magiiiiiic[/player] does not get a warning?

the mod answer was because i noticed that new recruits were joining and i kept creating them...

you don't think magiiiiiic notices?

you don't think owen notices?

JOHNNYROCKET24 wrote:

hahaha3hahaha wrote:Just briefly browsing your post I can tell we are on the same page. I thoroughly read KraphtOne's thread I think its BS. If conquerclub has a problem with it they should create rank restrictions on games like a lot of people have been asking for!

so creating hundreds of games with the same settings where 82% of the players that joined are new recruits is not farming ? And admitting that he knew he was farming the new recruits and kept setting more and more games up is not farming ? Than hides behind the same old song and dance " its my favorite setting " and " I cant control who joins " but yet he can if he would stop creating the farming games. Than blames it on CC for not putting the map on lockdown for new recruits instead of just stop creating the games. He did absolutely nothing to solve the problem but yet continued to benefit from the issue. Anotherwards, he decided to be part of the problem instead of the solution just to collect points. Nice guy he is.

This sounds PRECISELY like those who used the "double turn" excuse for freestyle games. It's a loophole, not a cheat because the game allows it. Why wasn't that treated as a cheat by the site then?

The SITE allows this (by not putting the map on the can't-play list), so it's not a cheat, it's a loophole.

As well, he CAN'T control who joins his games. And frankly, there is ZERO difference between playing against a "newbie" and playing against a cook (except, as Mr Changsha so astutely points out, there is very likely more risk to playing the newbie). To me, these are THE KEY POINTS in all of this.

AAFitz wrote:Farming has been regulated as: The systematic targeting of NEW RECRUITS by CREATING OR JOINING games with many new recruits and taking advantage of thier skill level, and the dramatically increased likely hood that they will deadbeat. This includes, INDIRECT AND DIRECT methods.

This is my interpretation of the rules as written, AND based on how every case has been ruled on. If the occasional new recruit slips in, no big deal... if you end up in the 20-50% range, It may be deemed farming. The QUANTITY AND PERCENTAGE of new recruits in games will be very important to any case. The higher the percentage, and the higher the number, the more obvious that the intent is to target new recruits.

That is true as far as it goes. And yet the INTENT of those targeting cooks is no different at all. But it's ignored for, quite honestly, no good reason at all.

The Neon Peon wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

The Neon Peon wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

The Neon Peon wrote:Basically, there are ways that you can make sure that mostly new recruits join your games. In other cases such as yours, while new recruits may join them, they are not the main populous.

Not the main populace, I agree...and yet, it's definitely been very close to the "50% threshold" that has been referenced in these situations (50% of the games, not 50% of the players in the games).

Well, the main reason the mods finally spoke up against it was the fact that the people that new recruits who joined games with people that farm hardly ever stay on the site. So in your case, simply having the people stay with the site means that there is no reason to ban you.

The two reasons why farming is bad:
1. points given mainly from people deatbeating
2. keeps many new recruits from staying

Neither is true in your case, but if you look at some of the older games of previous farmers like KLOBBER you will see how many of them game him points by deatbeating and how many of those new recruits finished 5 games.

But isn't that largely just "luck of the draw"? If my new recruits HAPPEN to stick around and KLOBBER's recruits don't happen to stick around, that's not because he was farming and I wasn't...it's just blind luck.

(But speaking of someone who IS violating the intent of the policies...<ahem>)

Lack did some stats that showed him that the new recruits that join games made for farming have a drastically lower rate of sticking to the sight.
It is almost impossible that you simply got lucky that all of the last 100 of the new recruits in your games stayed, and only 5 out of the new recruits farmers play out of 100 stay.

So what was it that I did which attracted only those who would stay with the site, if it wasn't just blind luck? I'm quite curious, as I'm pretty sure I didn't do anything at all (other than, perhaps, look like such a nice guy!).

KraphtOne wrote:lackattack could give a shit about how many points you're jacking your score up to... he has noticed that there is a greater chance of someone staying with the site if they are able to play a few competitive games when they first start out, rather than getting slaughtered by someone who is taking a territory per second in a freestyle game... lack could care less if you play the same cooks 6000 times and have a 99% win ratio... just don't stop new people from getting comfortable with playing here... it's all about dollars, has nothing to do with point gaining...

Which is, of course, PRECISELY WHY the min-max for rankings should be put into place immediately. This single step would instantaneously correct this problem. Rank segregation, evil thing that some seem to believe it is, would precisely fix this problem. Make it so, lackattack! Make it so!

KraphtOne wrote:and not to throw anybody under the bus...

but why did i get a warning and [player]magiiiiiic[/player] does not get a warning?
the mod answer was because i noticed that new recruits were joining and i kept creating them...
you don't think magiiiiiic notices?
you don't think owen notices?

Apparently, your problem is that you had the personal integrity to admit it (though to be fair, owenator has also spoken up about this situation in your C&A thread, so that also applies to him). The lesson here is that on this site, personal integrity will be punished, not rewarded.

Woodruff wrote:So what was it that I did which attracted only those who would stay with the site, if it wasn't just blind luck? I'm quite curious, as I'm pretty sure I didn't do anything at all (other than, perhaps, look like such a nice guy!).

1. For the most part, the maps you play on bear resemblance to standard RISK
2. There are less than 7 new recruits in your games, which speeds up the turn taking process
3. Not many of them are escalating, so new players have a shot at managing to do something rather than be confused as to how someone won in round 12.
4. There are lots of freemiums, who take their turns faster in general.

Those are my guesses, because honestly I have a hard time finding games with you and new recruits. '

The Neon Peon wrote:

Woodruff wrote:So what was it that I did which attracted only those who would stay with the site, if it wasn't just blind luck? I'm quite curious, as I'm pretty sure I didn't do anything at all (other than, perhaps, look like such a nice guy!).

1. For the most part, the maps you play on bear resemblance to standard RISK
3. Not many of them are escalating, so new players have a shot at managing to do something rather than be confused as to how someone won in round 12.

Ok, I can see how these two could have an impact on "this isn't fun so I"m leaving" (meaning, not those in these types of games), so that makes sense to me.

The Neon Peon wrote:2. There are less than 7 new recruits in your games, which speeds up the turn taking process
4. There are lots of freemiums, who take their turns faster in general.

I'm not convinced either of these would have, though.

The Neon Peon wrote:Those are my guesses, because honestly I have a hard time finding games with you and new recruits. '

Understood. After-the-fact looking back is difficult to do, for that reason. No way to tell who was and who wasn't back at that time.

KraphT1:

You said you didnt know. Fine. You were warned, and now you do.

You also said you didnt think it was farming at all...and yet now youre just making accusastions of others.

I already did that. I Asked if targeting NEW PLAYERS was illegal. It is not. ONLY the NEW RECRUITS are protected, and the MAIN REASONING IS that the new recruits deadbeat, far more often than the people with 5 games. Its that easy. They also arent familiar with the game, so they shouldnt be exploited.

Seriously...let it go man. You got a damn warning simply not to do it again. Does that even matter. Its a non issue. Half the people in the thread had a warning too. They simply changed what they were doing to fit the rules.

The reason the other cases didnt get an explicit warning and yours did, was because of the sheer volume, in a small amount of time. It dwarfed all of the other farmers all at once.

As far as farming new players, they simply dont want to do it. 12 months ago, no farming was explicitly against the rules.

I honestly feel bad that you took this that personally. It was a damn warning...a warning...and it does indeed set a precedent...not that it really had to, because I dont honestly think anyone would be playing that many new recruits and NOT expect a warning. It just defies logic at this point.

Just dont do it any more, whats the big deal?

jefjef wrote:

AAFitz wrote:

jefjef wrote:It depends who you are if your considered farming or not. CC double standards.

oh really? show some examples of this. Show who was treated unfairly for farming, and who wasnt.

Ive seen nearly every farming thread at this point. They were all treated the same, and certainly fairly.

No fight at all man. As I said, nearly everybody's farmed...I have myself.

THESE ARE YOUR OWN WORDS from Kraphtones farming thread.

Yes, back in 2006, and 2007 I set up lots of doubles and team games when new recruits could still join them. There was no rule against farming. But we arent talking about farming of noobs, we are talking about the farming of new recruits, which is what is against the rules.

Point out all the people that did this after 1/1/09, that were given leniency...as you say because of who they were..
And if you think Ive farmed new recruits...by all means....go searching through my games....and good luck to ya

I've been following this whole thing over the last 3 or 4 days (which by NO means shows that I understand the distinctions and nuances). But it seems to me double-AA it is about degrees. I'm not really sure what that even means, but it certainly seems to be a fluid thing.

Perhaps, like in many sections of the online game world, CC will develop "tiers" of players. Only time and experience will tell, but I would have hated to have only been in a room of "?" in my first week here. I learned LOT'S by beating some higher ranks.

(Okay... you know what I mean bro.)

E.

May I suggest the people who aren't idiots leave this thread and allow those who are to vent? We all know that Woodruff knows well what is meant by farming, and his idiotic complaints had no power until Voldemort, with his mod powers, gave it legitamacy by recognizing this as a credible argument. So much crap could be avoided on CC if the mods would realize that there are some threads that will be made that they just need to keep thier hands out of, and let die down... like this one. and don't make me draw out my segregation-points shift diagram again. this has already been gone over.

elfish_lad wrote:I've been following this whole thing over the last 3 or 4 days (which by NO means shows that I understand the distinctions and nuances). But it seems to me double-AA it is about degrees. I'm not really sure what that even means, but it certainly seems to be a fluid thing.

E.

Its not me that is about degrees. Im really just defining the rules, as the administrators, mods, and players have come to define them as the game moves on.

My description, is about as simple, and accurate as you can get, without describing individual cases, but it covers the only illegal type of farming at CC, and from what Ive gathered, for a while:

Targeting a large number, or large percentage...or both of NEW RECRUITS BY DIRECT, OR INDIRECT METHODS. That really covers it, to the point where any reasonable person knows how to avoid breaking this rule.

As you said, the rule has been fluid, but that isnt my opinion of it, I actually posted before that I thought even new players should be somehow protected against being farmed, but it came from the top, that CC has no interest in doing so...and Im sure one of the major reasons is the sheer complexity of it. Now its about as simple and straighforward as it can possibly be.

It is against the rules to farm NEW RECRUITS. Its that easy. Will it change in the future? Will someone come along and farm so many players with 6 games instead of 4 that a new rule has to be made? Quite possibly, but so far, its explicity LEGAL to do so, and was said in as many words.

Many of the problems here, is the use of the word farming, because farming certainly includes, killing noobs, with few games, and possibly even just low scores...though anyone who hasnt figured out the game after say 50 or 100...or less...too bad really...its just a game, and the best way to learn how to win sometimes is to lose.

I agree with Kraphtone that there are many farmers on CC. Ive openly admitted to it in the past. The difference with his case, is that he farmed all NEW RECRUITS, and was therefore was warned not to continue, and explained that it had been made against the rules, at the beginning of the year. In his case, it just happened to be so many games, so many recruits, and such a high percentage, beyond what others had done, that it actually helped define farming once and for all.

These cases are judged with the input of members, the accusee, the mods and the management. Its easy to understand the rationale behind the rules as they stand right now, if you simply look at the situation as a whole.

Justification.

NEW RECRUITS have no experience with the functions of the game, and while I doubt the expect to win, they are easier to take advantage of...generally speaking.

NEW RECRUITS are much more likely to DEADBEAT. Once theyve played the full 5 games though, it means they might give the game a shot, probably get the general Idea, and at least have a fighting chance in well...some games.

NEW RECRUITS are important to the future of CC. New players mean more revenue, which will mean more resources for CC, and allow for improvements in software, and hardware. Protecting them from absolute slaughter is perhaps protecting CC from absolute slaughter.

All of these factors are self evident. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO QUESTION THAT FARMING OF NEW RECRUITS SHOULD BE, OR IS AGAINST THE RULES. IT COVERS DIRECT AND INDIRECT FARMING TECHNIQUES. All of these cannot be defined, because rules and policies cannot be set up, until someone finds a way to take advantage of the gaming. Technically GROSS ABUSE OF THE GAME does cover quite a bit, and while always subjective, there is always a reasonable way to judge if there is abuse. In the end, the owners and moderators, with quite a bit of help from the players...make these policies and rules... to keep the game as fun as possible for everyone, to help keep the integrity of the scoring system, as much as possible, but most importantly to KEEP PLAYERS FROM FEELING CHEATED, which is perhaps the worst experience one can have in a game, besides perhaps severe forum abuse.

By all means you can argue that you dont like the policy, that you think new players should be included too, or even that you think everyone should be fair game and screw the farming rules...but those are the farming rules and policies as they stand....as best as they can be interpreted. All you have to do is not break them, and youre fine. If you find that an inordinate number of NEW RECRUITS are joining one type of game....set up some other types...maybe hold off a bit...maybe invite non new recruits to the games, maybe go to callouts to find other players, set up private games, start them at different times, and simply drop the games that fill up with new recruits. If some slip by its not a big deal, but if you set up 20 games and 80% have new recruits, and then another 20 and 80% have new recruits, and then another 20....ITS OBVIOUS TO ANYONE THAT 80% OF THOSE GAMES WILL HAVE NEW RECRUITS... AND BY SETTING THEM UP, ITS OBVIOUS YOU EITHER WANT THEM THERE, OR ARE SIMPLY WILLING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE FACT THAT THEY ARE JOINING. And its more than obvious, that the deadbeat rate will be much, much higher, so setting up such games, you knowingly increase your odds of winning, just by setting up the games....so...

JUST LEAVE THE NEW RECRUITS ALONE AND HAVE FUN.

Mr_Adams wrote:May I suggest the people who aren't idiots leave this thread and allow those who are to vent? We all know that Woodruff knows well what is meant by farming, and his idiotic complaints had no power until Voldemort, with his mod powers, gave it legitamacy by recognizing this as a credible argument. So much crap could be avoided on CC if the mods would realize that there are some threads that will be made that they just need to keep thier hands out of, and let die down... like this one. and don't make me draw out my segregation-points shift diagram again. this has already been gone over.

Well, that's quite the rational, logical argument. It's too bad you had to bother showing your ass to the world like that.

What I "know" is that the "book definition" of farming is illogical and irrational to the stated purpose of stopping it. If the true intent is to keep players coming back (which I certainly want also), then the ability to min-max ranks in game-starts IS the solution to the problem. It would nearly eliminate farming (and make it painfully obvious in those cases where it continued) while allowing new players to have the enjoyable, competitive experience which would make them want to return. It would also, of course, allow the experienced players to be assured of playing against those of at least reasonably-similar ranks. Someone in one of the threads posted a VERY good way of implementing it (using some sort of a percentage of the game-starter's score) that REALLY softened the blow as to it becoming a rank-segregation thing...in other words, it was virtually not a rank-segregator other than for the very top ranks (who have no business playing the very lowest ranks anyone, really).

elfish_lad wrote:Perhaps, like in many sections of the online game world, CC will develop "tiers" of players. Only time and experience will tell, but I would have hated to have only been in a room of "?" in my first week here. I learned LOT'S by beating some higher ranks.

Let me get this straight...as a ?, you would have hated to have been stuck playing other ?'s for your first five games? Doesn't that presume that all ?'s are terrible players and following through on that logic, doesn't that mean that at that time, you were a terrible player? I'm not saying you were, of course...but if you were not, then the presumption that the others are is just as faulty. I don't believe it's a terrible inconvenience for ?'s to be limited to playing other ?'s, cooks, cadets and maybe privates in their first five games and in fact, I very much believe it would ENHANCE their experience and make them more interested in staying around.

In my opinion (after years of playing online games on other sites)...

Point-farming is when you gain cheap points however way possible.

Noob-farming is when you purposely play against players worse than yourself in order to pick up easy wins.

Newb-farming is when you purposely play against new players, hoping to beat them because of their lack of experience.


According to the rules, what I consider 'Newb-farming' is the only type of farming that is not allowed. The other types are still farming, just not against the rules.

StephenB wrote:In my opinion (after years of playing online games on other sites)...

Point-farming is when you gain cheap points however way possible.

Noob-farming is when you purposely play against players worse than yourself in order to pick up easy wins.

Newb-farming is when you purposely play against new players, hoping to beat them because of their lack of experience.


According to the rules, what I consider 'Newb-farming' is the only type of farming that is not allowed. The other types are still farming, just not against the rules.

Perfect.

Woodruff wrote:

Mr_Adams wrote:May I suggest the people who aren't idiots leave this thread and allow those who are to vent? We all know that Woodruff knows well what is meant by farming, and his idiotic complaints had no power until Voldemort, with his mod powers, gave it legitamacy by recognizing this as a credible argument. So much crap could be avoided on CC if the mods would realize that there are some threads that will be made that they just need to keep thier hands out of, and let die down... like this one. and don't make me draw out my segregation-points shift diagram again. this has already been gone over.

Well, that's quite the rational, logical argument. It's too bad you had to bother showing your ass to the world like that.

What I "know" is that the "book definition" of farming is illogical and irrational to the stated purpose of stopping it. If the true intent is to keep players coming back (which I certainly want also), then the ability to min-max ranks in game-starts IS the solution to the problem. It would nearly eliminate farming (and make it painfully obvious in those cases where it continued) while allowing new players to have the enjoyable, competitive experience which would make them want to return. It would also, of course, allow the experienced players to be assured of playing against those of at least reasonably-similar ranks. Someone in one of the threads posted a VERY good way of implementing it (using some sort of a percentage of the game-starter's score) that REALLY softened the blow as to it becoming a rank-segregation thing...in other words, it was virtually not a rank-segregator other than for the very top ranks (who have no business playing the very lowest ranks anyone, really).

elfish_lad wrote:Perhaps, like in many sections of the online game world, CC will develop "tiers" of players. Only time and experience will tell, but I would have hated to have only been in a room of "?" in my first week here. I learned LOT'S by beating some higher ranks.

Let me get this straight...as a ?, you would have hated to have been stuck playing other ?'s for your first five games? Doesn't that presume that all ?'s are terrible players and following through on that logic, doesn't that mean that at that time, you were a terrible player? I'm not saying you were, of course...but if you were not, then the presumption that the others are is just as faulty. I don't believe it's a terrible inconvenience for ?'s to be limited to playing other ?'s, cooks, cadets and maybe privates in their first five games and in fact, I very much believe it would ENHANCE their experience and make them more interested in staying around.

You are focussing too much on the new recruits getting annoyed, and not the larger picture. If I join a game against a good player on their favorite map, I will lose too. Losing is something you have to get used to.

The key to the rule, is the COMBINATION of the factors. The reason NEW RECRUITS are off limits, is because, not only do they have no experience, not only do they not understand the game, and the maps, not only do we not want to scare them away...but also, the rate of deadbeating out, is much, much higher. Its the combination of all of these factors. Quite frankly, I suggest players go up against the best players on the site whenever they can on their favorite map. Its how Ive learned every single one. But I definitely dont do it, until you get used to playing.

Sure, its still farming if someone joins lots of new players, but it really doesnt HAVE to be against the rules, because eventually, those players will learn. But farming NEW RECRUITS, messes up everything. It steals points that likely will never get put back into the system, takes the chance of scaring them off early, and clearly runs up scores, to the point of making them pointless. Woodruff, youre a reasonable guy. Youve taken a stance on this, and a passionate one, and I was there with you at one point myself.... but take another look at it.. remember it is a game, realize the complexity, if not impossibility of stopping farming against all new players...and maybe just accept that NEW RECRUITS ARE OFF LIMIT TO FARMING, and play accordingly. Its very easy to do.

I do wish feudal was made off limits long ago though, because it really is a tarpit for those poor little bastards.

AAFitz wrote:You are focussing too much on the new recruits getting annoyed, and not the larger picture. If I join a game against a good player on their favorite map, I will lose too. Losing is something you have to get used to.

And yet, the excuse given for farming only applying to the newbies is that we don't want them to leave (the big dollar signs in the sky). Why might they leave? Because they're getting their asses handed to them by highly experienced players, primarily. That makes the game not fun. If they find that they're competitive or even, dare I say it, above those they're starting out against, they're far more likely to stay because the game IS FUN. That's how you keep them here, and that's how they'll start to think about becoming premium members.

AAFitz wrote:The key to the rule, is the COMBINATION of the factors. The reason NEW RECRUITS are off limits, is because, not only do they have no experience, not only do they not understand the game, and the maps, not only do we not want to scare them away...but also, the rate of deadbeating out, is much, much higher. Its the combination of all of these factors.

I do understand the deadbeating-out rate applying to the farming rule and how it's essentially stealing points out of the system, and it's a legitimate point (that could be fixed by the min-max rank suggestion <ahem>). As to the rest of it however, it applies to poor players as well as the newbies.

AAFitz wrote:Woodruff, youre a reasonable guy. Youve taken a stance on this, and a passionate one, and I was there with you at one point myself.... but take another look at it.. remember it is a game, realize the complexity, if not impossibility of stopping farming against all new players...and maybe just accept that NEW RECRUITS ARE OFF LIMIT TO FARMING, and play accordingly. Its very easy to do.

I'm confused. I do accept that new recruits are off limit to farming...not sure where you're going with that, as it really doesn't affect my game-choices at all. I still maintain however that the min-max rank suggestion would eliminate ALL of these problems WITHOUT causing rank segregation (if it's done properly, as was outlined in one of the many fairly recent suggestions).

AAFitz wrote:I do wish feudal was made off limits long ago though, because it really is a tarpit for those poor little bastards.

It does seem to be, yes.

StephenB wrote:In my opinion (after years of playing online games on other sites)...

Point-farming is when you gain cheap points however way possible.

Noob-farming is when you purposely play against players worse than yourself in order to pick up easy wins.

Newb-farming is when you purposely play against new players, hoping to beat them because of their lack of experience.


According to the rules, what I consider 'Newb-farming' is the only type of farming that is not allowed. The other types are still farming, just not against the rules.

At some point, people have to decide if they want to take on a challenge or not.

I like to play a lot of the more unusual game types. I also wind up playing a lot of new people. I usually try to explain rules if anyone asks. If I don't think it will be percieved an insult, I will offer suggestions. However, if I am a farmer, my rank certain tells I am not a terribly successful one!

Im sorry.. I dont have time to do the quote thing... youre right about farming new players, not new recruits as being farming...but it just isnt against the rules, or at least unless someone goes beyond which is deemed gross abuse. Im not making any excuses for it...but I also dont care enough to fight against it, when really its just a game. Unless its deemed against the rules...no big deal.

I didnt expressly mean you had to accept that NEW RECRUITS were off limits... just that they were off limits...I may have slid into preach mode there....it happens. It certainly wasnt an accusation... I very much assume since you are against all forms of farming, that you dont do it.

Anyways... I just wanted to send those ideas over... you seemed to be fighting pretty hard...when really, youre opinions are closer to the policy and what people think, than you realize.

AAFitz wrote:Im sorry.. I dont have time to do the quote thing... youre right about farming new players, not new recruits as being farming...but it just isnt against the rules, or at least unless someone goes beyond which is deemed gross abuse. Im not making any excuses for it...but I also dont care enough to fight against it, when really its just a game. Unless its deemed against the rules...no big deal.

I didnt expressly mean you had to accept that NEW RECRUITS were off limits... just that they were off limits...I may have slid into preach mode there....it happens. It certainly wasnt an accusation... I very much assume since you are against all forms of farming, that you dont do it.

Anyways... I just wanted to send those ideas over... you seemed to be fighting pretty hard...when really, youre opinions are closer to the policy and what people think, than you realize.

I do realize it. I generally do tend to be along the same lines as the site policy (thus the endless accusations of my wanting to be a mod and ass-kissing). It's just that I know I'm right (one thing about me...I'm never in doubt about my being correct <laughing>) about the differences that I do see. The reason I continue to argue for the change is because I believe it is harming the site and that's important to me (as it brings me the "just a game"...well, really the competition...that I love).

In general the site should always try to lean towards allowing us players to have the maximum freedom in our game selections, hence the fact that I have consistantly leaned towards the farmers on this issue.

We don't want CC to become a kind of nanny state determining who we can and can't play against and we surely do not want big brother to be telling our lower ranks "Sorry, but you're just not strong enough to play a captain." Stripers are surely sentient enough to realise the consequences of their game selection and if they aren't, well that is their look out when all is said and done. If this game isn't about the survival of the fittest then I don't know what is. Of course, the issue matters most for those on the first couple of pages: some find it truly annoying to be sitting at say No.95 and realise that a fair proportion of those above them are not playing as competitively as they are. I haven't forgotten the sheer annoyance that used to seep through Farang Demon's posts on this issue. However, my own view has still not changed..we should work on our own goals and not worry too much about how others are achieving there's. Am I digressing? Maybe, but the farming issue is completely intertwined with lack of an accurate, comprehensive scoreboard. Sort the scoreboard out and the farming issue would also be likely to go away.

However, I do take Fitz's point about chasing the deadbeat. One of the few acts that actually appalled me in my time here was Max's continuous hunt for the deadbeat NR. It made an absolute mockery of the entire scoring system and, to a fairly large extent I feel, made a great many active users feel that there wasn't much point playing this game competitively.

StephenB wrote:In my opinion (after years of playing online games on other sites)...

Point-farming is when you gain cheap points however way possible.

Noob-farming is when you purposely play against players worse than yourself in order to pick up easy wins.

Newb-farming is when you purposely play against new players, hoping to beat them because of their lack of experience.


According to the rules, what I consider 'Newb-farming' is the only type of farming that is not allowed. The other types are still farming, just not against the rules.

Haha, so playing your favourite map and settings is now considered "point-farming"?! That's the funniest shit I've ever heard.

If I'm honest, the only way to avoid being labelled a farmer is to actually be a victim of farming yourself!

obliterationX wrote:

StephenB wrote:In my opinion (after years of playing online games on other sites)...

Point-farming is when you gain cheap points however way possible.

Noob-farming is when you purposely play against players worse than yourself in order to pick up easy wins.

Newb-farming is when you purposely play against new players, hoping to beat them because of their lack of experience.


According to the rules, what I consider 'Newb-farming' is the only type of farming that is not allowed. The other types are still farming, just not against the rules.

Haha, so playing your favourite map and settings is now considered "point-farming"?! That's the funniest shit I've ever heard.

If I'm honest, the only way to avoid being labelled a farmer is to actually be a victim of farming yourself!

To the first part of your post:
Sometimes I pretend I read the posts I quoted, too.

(Seriously, where in the world does it say something about maps)

As to the second part of your post, there are two ways other than being farmed to not be a farmer.
1. Start games that don't purposely attract people worse than you.
2. Join games against those people.

There's a BIG difference between playing people that are worse than you and say:
- foeing all high ranks so you can only play people worse than you
- playing on maps and settings that only people worse than you join
- only joining games where there are no people better than you in them

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obliterationX wrote:

StephenB wrote:In my opinion (after years of playing online games on other sites)...

Point-farming is when you gain cheap points however way possible.

Noob-farming is when you purposely play against players worse than yourself in order to pick up easy wins.

Newb-farming is when you purposely play against new players, hoping to beat them because of their lack of experience.


According to the rules, what I consider 'Newb-farming' is the only type of farming that is not allowed. The other types are still farming, just not against the rules.

Haha, so playing your favourite map and settings is now considered "point-farming"?! That's the funniest shit I've ever heard.

If I'm honest, the only way to avoid being labelled a farmer is to actually be a victim of farming yourself!

I can't even be bothered to give a decent answer to this. You can't read properly anyway.