New Map: Space [Quenched]

freakshow · Post by **freakshow** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 5:59 pm

Frankly I was more concerned with the tone implied by that post. Who are you to expect a new legend from Jota, while your opinions are valued the count no more than anyone elses. I for one could care less about how good a map looks as long as I can look at it comfortable for an extended period of time (which is why I won't ask lack to bring back indochina v.1) On a side note I've had one person tell me that they actually liked v.1 better because of the strong colors. I honestly think you need to realize that you are no better than anyone else in this forum, your opinions are just that, yours. They are not the law of conquer club, as much as this may shock you we don't need to play by your rules. That said the legend does need some work but I would play the map as is. In fact If the contries are in a final layout than submit it and worry about the graphics later, let the people have at their new plaything. Updates are essential. No map should ever go up finished it, in fact no map should ever be finished, updates should be never ending, find flaws in the map that might not have been aparent even after several weeks of play than clean them up.

Marvaddin · Post by **Marvaddin** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:27 pm

freakshow wrote:Who are you to expect a new legend from Jota

This reply is for you, Jota. My goal was never offend you, and you know it.
Im a player and I like the better maps possible, both playable and beautiful. If the map was for your use only, I would never give an opinion. Again, I feel free to give opinions here, and I think they would help anything. Is it the forum goal, isnt it? Even why I expect not demand or anything alike. If you dont want, only say it. But I will not shut up because of this shit thrower, ok? Only dont submit unfinished maps like some fools use to do, right?

Hoff · Post by **Hoff** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:53 pm

I don't think people are complaing about you wanting to make maps better marv. Sometimes you can come off as being rude and inconsiderate of how hard people are working on their maps. Everyone appreciates constructive critism, but not critism by itself. I'm guessing the english is not your first language since you live in brazil. So maybe there is just a language barrier thing where you think you are just trying to help but inreality you are coming off as being rude. I think we all just need to chill out and relax.

Can't we all just get along? haha

Marvaddin · Post by **Marvaddin** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:01 pm

I admit, as my English vocabulary isnt so wide, sometimes I use a word that is not really what I would like... In fact, the problem is, I did nothing, and if someone could become angry, maybe offended

, Jota is the person... but not these guys.

"You know Marv you can be an ass sometimes, or as it may be most of the time."
In Brazil, it sounds as a great offense (maybe it was not his goal), much greater than he could do, because I was not talking to him.

I apologize if I was inconvenient. Keep the work, Jota, preferently, with a new legend

freakshow · Post by **freakshow** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:22 pm

Heck I think at this point in time I'm just flaming cause I'm grumpy, I'll tell you what I'll stop posting flames about you unless you try and insult me. Contrary to popular belief I don't like being hinted at. When you say don't submit maps that still need work everyone knows who your referring to, Let me be this first to say I made an honest mistake Don't do what I did. That having been said I do intend to fix my map and I stand by the fact that all maps should be in some sort of development at all times, if you really think you've got it right then your wrong. Not even the classical map is perfect and it's been around forever.

Jota · Post by **Jota** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:20 pm

Marvaddin wrote:Why are no mention in the leggend for Yggdrasil?

Doesn't the new version mention Yggrdasil, in between Inkling and Tir na nog?

Marvaddin wrote:This reply is for you, Jota. My goal was never offend you, and you know it. [...] IAgain, I feel free to give opinions here, and I think they would help anything.

I understand that, and I appreciate your opinions. The issue is really just one of how you express those opinions. When you phrase something as an absolute truth or as a direct order or the like, it tends to put people off. It's a lot easier to listen to good advice when it's phrased as a suggestion or as an opinion (e.g. "I think it would look better with a legend that was [description of better legend]." instead of "What an ugly legend, too... I expect a new one.") -- especially since there are lots of people here with different opinions, and sometimes the majority's taste may disagree.

That said, it does seem as though I should do something about the legend. :) Unless I get more specific suggestions for it, I'll try to come up with something new after I've done some work on the planets. Oh, and I'll probably hold off on making a decision on the dark circles until then too, since the planet images will probably have a big influence on how easy the numbers are to read.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone!

freakshow · Post by **freakshow** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:44 pm

If you want some suggestions for the legend I think a nice border/ shape would be a good start, square is for squares. Add a buckrodgers style spaceship to the top of it, Go back and find images from old scifi tv shows/movies. I've always liked retro future better than the real future. One thing they always had was guade neon, if toned down a combination brushed aluminum and neon would go a long way to suggesting space.

Jota · Post by **Jota** » Mon May 01, 2006 5:00 am

You can see the other style of borders I was considering in this picture (look at Arda in the lower left). It also has two slightly different versions of the Style A planets: one for Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn; another for Earth, Luna, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. Any preferences? (I'm not sure if the difference is even really visible, actually.)

Jota · Post by **Jota** » Tue May 02, 2006 5:53 pm

Here's a sample of a more... "interesting" legend. Any better or worse? I fear I may have made it illegible in the process, but that might be fixable. Also, you can still see the alternate connection style in Arda. Opinions are welcome.

freakshow · Post by **freakshow** » Tue May 02, 2006 6:10 pm

Yeah looks good. I love the diffrent planets and that old school spaceship is nice too. 2 things that could use some help. While I fear it's to late now, is there another color you could do sol in, it doesn't show up well on the legend.
I don't know what program your useing but I'd consider retyping out your text, I know in photoshop and others the text can get funky if it gets messed around with to much.
edit: one other thing, you need to clearly divide the collums in the legend, as is it hard to just glance at it and realize which number goes with which system.
Keep up the good work.

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Tue May 02, 2006 8:37 pm

I like how the map is progressing...

---The legend looks more appealing than it did before, though I fear that the text may be too small and hard to read. Also as noted above straight columns would help that process. Perhaps a boldness in the text also is something to look into. Adding some flare to both the planet in the legend and the spaceship would be awesome. I am not a big fan of the word 'Space' on the spaceship...seems kind of redunant, you know? I think you found an interesting planet/star that would be the background for the one in the legend that could help the visual appeal (similar as to what you are doing to the continents).

---I currently love the background planets. Are they going to have the gray circle or is that going to be left out? Keep going with adding the background planets to the other systems. I especially like it that you haven't just copy and pasted the same ones throughout the map, but each one is unique and has it's own flare. Also 'Fae Wormhole' doesn't have a gray circle, don't know if you are perhaps experimenting by putting some sort similar background there as you did for the planets. I think that would be something also to look into. Background texture for the wormholes and warp gates.

---So of the two current style of planetary connections, I think I currently like the straight and angled versions. Something about them seems percise, and I like that. But the curved ones also have their merit. They make more sense for a system, due to planetary movements, etc. But I'm still currently leading toward the straight, angled ones.

--Andy

Banana Stomper · Post by **Banana Stomper** » Tue May 02, 2006 8:48 pm

Question, and i'm sure its been convered, but i'm lazy, so forgive me. but those regions that belong to both systems, does that mean that they both can't be held simultaneously by different players?

HighBorn · Post by **HighBorn** » Tue May 02, 2006 8:50 pm

i think that would be correct.....

kingwaffles · Post by **kingwaffles** » Tue May 02, 2006 9:30 pm

oooo, that sounds like it would make for some very fun and interesting games.

HighBorn · Post by **HighBorn** » Tue May 02, 2006 9:32 pm

yeah brings new meaning the the pharse MINE!!... lol

kingwaffles · Post by **kingwaffles** » Tue May 02, 2006 9:38 pm

Imagine how it would go during a freestyle game if both sides had lots of armies to spare..... Talk about a seesaw...

HighBorn · Post by **HighBorn** » Tue May 02, 2006 9:42 pm

i love it lets play

kingwaffles · Post by **kingwaffles** » Tue May 02, 2006 9:44 pm

Lets rumble!

Marvaddin · Post by **Marvaddin** » Tue May 02, 2006 9:56 pm

Banana Stomper wrote:Question, and i'm sure its been convered, but i'm lazy, so forgive me. but those regions that belong to both systems, does that mean that they both can't be held simultaneously by different players?

Hmmm... This can be a great problem in team games... Maybe we should re-think about it...

About the legend, much better, but still bad. The main problem is still there. The number of the bonuses are in bad positions... See Arda... or worse, Valhalla!! If you remove the stations, it will be very easy to correct, too...

Will you still put lines between the worm / warp countries? I think that Mustarsdeed name could be short, so it could be at top, as next planets. By the way, I loved all planets (except for Titania, its good, but not as the others).

Maybe you could put the analysis of the continents, to make easier discuss bonuses.

Jota · Post by **Jota** » Wed May 03, 2006 4:22 pm

I'll make legend legibility my next priority. I've got a few thoughts on things to try. (Unfortunately, I've already played the bold card: I guess it didn't work.)

AndyDufresne wrote:Adding some flare to both the planet in the legend and the spaceship would be awesome. I am not a big fan of the word 'Space' on the spaceship...seems kind of redunant, you know? I think you found an interesting planet/star that would be the background for the one in the legend that could help the visual appeal (similar as to what you are doing to the continents).

I added "Space!" just so that the map would have its title on it somewhere. But I suppose there's not much chance of it being mixed up with anything else. As for making the large legend planetoid thing into a real planet image, I'm concerned that doing that might hinder legibilty even further. But I can try it as an option after I finish doing images for the real planets.

Are they going to have the gray circle or is that going to be left out?

So far, I'm just removing the grey circles from the systems where I've added planet images, so that peope can see the planets better. I figure I'll leave it up to you guys whether or not they're needed. As for the wormholes and warp gates, whether or not they get art depends on whether or not I can find and/or make appropriate art for them -- where "appropriate" means suitable for having a number dropped in the middle.

thegrimsleeper · Post by **thegrimsleeper** » Wed May 03, 2006 4:59 pm

Some sort of spiral effect would look good for the wormholes, I think... And some sort of acid-trip oversaturated rainbow business for the warpgates, perhaps? Please don't clutter the map with lines connecting these, we all know about wormholes and warpgates.

I'm putting my vote with the curved connections; it gives it that retro-50s vibe.

Instead of a planet for the legend, you might try a slightly transluscent image of a nebula.

colin cool · Post by **colin cool** » Wed May 03, 2006 5:35 pm

i think u shoud make it so there are more ways to attack

Jota · Post by **Jota** » Wed May 03, 2006 6:35 pm

thegrimsleeper wrote:Please don't clutter the map with lines connecting these, we all know about wormholes and warpgates.

Do you really think they look cluttered? I thought they looked kinda cool.

I'm putting my vote with the curved connections; it gives it that retro-50s vibe.

That's one for each. Any other votes?

thegrimsleeper · Post by **thegrimsleeper** » Wed May 03, 2006 7:18 pm

No, the way you have it now is fine... I think Marv was suggesting that you make it visually obvious that the wormholes and warpgates can attack each other, and I was just saying that I disagreed. I like to give people credit for being able to think, and I also like to punish those who cannot. I mean, it is the 21st century, I think we've all seen a sci-fi that mentioned wormholes and we all know what they do.

If I may suggest saturating Saturn so it doesn't look so washed-out... And I liked the Jupiter you had in the image you linked much more than the one you most recently posted.

I'm also voting again for the curved lines... so now it's 2-1.

Jota · Post by **Jota** » Wed May 03, 2006 7:55 pm

The lines connecting the warp gates and wormholes were actually a part of the original version of the map. I'd originally only meant to take them out temporarily while I was re-arranging Valhalla and the legend.

(I can address Saturn and Jupiter like you say. Although I note that the Saturn image is what Saturn actually looks like, according to NASA.)