FOW: cheating, or strategy?

[Dauntless07]

Well, the game is over now, and we both lost.

[Royal Panda]

I would have absolutely no qualms about revealing someone's location in a FOW game if it was definitely going to help me win the game. This is war people! Everything's fair in war (so long as it's all in game chat...)!

[Evil Semp]

This is from the Community Guidelines.

Fog of War Games:

* Using the game chat to announce where a player's territories and troops may (or may not ) be is NOT against the rules. It may come across as unfair or not in the spirit of the game, but feel free to find strategic applications of this non-rule.

[darkangelsguy205]

its a stragey

[KoE_Sirius]

absolutely bad sport, I hate it when people do that. The goal of fog of war is to hide yourself from and deceive as many of your opponents as much as you can. There's always gonna be somebody who has a good basic idea of where you are, but they should not tell other people.

I was playing an 8 player foggy feudal epic one time, and I eliminated someone, so I had 2 castles, the other 6 people still only had 1. The player I eliminated then proceeded to tell everyone else exactly where I was. I was basically unfortified because I went all out to eliminate him, and was just getting my stacks up on my borders. Until then, no one knew which quarter of the board I was on. The two players on the quarter next to me then teamed up and destroyed me. That should not happen, it's why you play FOW, so people don't know where you are. It ruins the whole point if some asshole tells everyone

Rubbish,no offence.

[danfrank]

I was under the impression it was illegal to tell in FOW..that being said before i knew that i use to share "incorrect" FOW information - reason being: players like to take advantage of that so i would say so and so has a bonus when he really does NOT..and someone always went and attacked that player ...worked well lol

anyone with half a brain can tell by reading the log what bonus(es) is being held..

[darth emperor]

I was under the impression it was illegal to tell in FOW..that being said before i knew that i use to share "incorrect" FOW information - reason being: players like to take advantage of that so i would say so and so has a bonus when he really does NOT..and someone always went and attacked that player ...worked well lol

anyone with half a brain can tell by reading the log what bonus(es) is being held..

well...depends on the map and the experience you have w/that map

[Dauntless07]

This is from the Community Guidelines.

Fog of War Games:

* Using the game chat to announce where a player's territories and troops may (or may not ) be is NOT against the rules. It may come across as unfair or not in the spirit of the game, but feel free to find strategic applications of this non-rule.

Oh, right, I knew that. I've read a few cheating and abuse reports where people tried to get players punished for that sort of thing, but the bottom line is that revealing positions is NOT against the rules. In that sense, I suppose the title for this thread was a bad choice since the question posed is not really a question of cheating.

[darth emperor]

This is from the Community Guidelines.

Fog of War Games:

* Using the game chat to announce where a player's territories and troops may (or may not ) be is NOT against the rules. It may come across as unfair or not in the spirit of the game, but feel free to find strategic applications of this non-rule.

Oh, right, I knew that. I've read a few cheating and abuse reports where people tried to get players punished for that sort of thing, but the bottom line is that revealing positions is NOT against the rules. In that sense, I suppose the title for this thread was a bad choice since the question posed is not really a question of cheating.

The important is that part(the bolded one)

[Dauntless07]

I have another one for you. Game Game 8368941; PonyGal
accuses me of taking advantage of FOW to have a Secret Diplomatic Alliance with Gray. Let the new topic begin...

[mybad]

I don't consider it cheating...is just a part of the strategy(even if you lie saying that) it's true that the point is that no one knows where are... but you can share all the info you want...just like alliances some people accept is as strategy other think is completely cheating.But of course should be all in game chat.

Well if you see the case that pointed out jrh yes it's absolutely bad sport,as sore loser....it didnt help at all the other player because he was already dead... but let's put this example: You have 2 castles and one player (yellow) finds you,but can't attack you and he sees that obviously he is going to die because you can kill him easily. Yellow could say jrh is in ____ like that the other player would start attacking you and then you woudn't be able to kill yellow.Reveal the info that you need the people to know,that's part of strategy.

But also think that everytime you tell where's someone you tell other people where you are. Just telling where is everyone you find it doesnt help at all. You should know when and how to tell and see how would be beneficial to you against the incovenients(just like alliances)

this

also, when you're using straight diplomacy, ie; "you go that way, I'll go this way", don't say, "ok, you take Japan and Russia and I'll take Oceania and India." totally screws up the dynamic. use words like east/west, up/down, etc.

[Sey69]

If it's in the Game Log, it's public knowledge. I was great at Math in school. I'm more than happy to add up bonuses and post them in the Chat (if the game's getting to one-sided). FOG or no FOG.

[Woodruff]

I'm in a game right now... Game 6956075

And, a player accused me of cheating because I shared map information that caused him to lose a bonus, and in the ensuing tantrum foed me, (LOL) So my topic to you is what is allowed in FOW chat boxes. Is sharing map info bad sport, or just part of the strategy. I would lean towards the latter obviously.

Here's my feeling. As Coach Herm Edwards infamously said..."WE PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!". Therefore, using any and all tools at your disposal is your DUTY to the strategy of the game. I consider revealing information and putting out misinformation to just be tools within your toolbox. And I do both often enough that nobody knows what the hell I'm talking about. If someone gets all pissed off about it, well...that's really their problem. I do hold truce-breaking in a bit different light in that there is an inherent "giving your word" applied to it. And yet, at the same time...WE PLAY TO WIN THE GAME, so you use it to your advantage.

If you're not using every tool in your toolbox, you are only hurting yourself.

Now, having said all of that...there is an instance when I would consider this to be foe-worthy activity, and that is when a player has been eliminated - if that eliminated player is giving out information about the player who eliminated them, then that is absolutely unrespectable and I will foe them (even if I'm not the one hurt by the information). In that case, it had nothing at all to do with trying to win the game and is simply a crybaby temper tantrum at having been eliminated.

So do I get mad for a bit when it happens to me? SURE...that's human nature. My game got nicked, and I'm competitive enough to get mad about it (at that moment). But if I examine the situation honestly, I'm really only mad because my own strategy didn't account for whatever happened to happen.

[cyrenius]

It's dirty strategy from my point . I defenetly foed you if you did that to me, and mayby had started a kamikaze attack against you(depending on my mood)

I quess evereryone playes as fair as they are in everyday life

So, as a preliminary conclusion, how will you act in the future in the same situation?

[Dauntless07]

It's dirty strategy from my point . I defenetly foed you if you did that to me, and mayby had started a kamikaze attack against you(depending on my mood)

I quess evereryone playes as fair as they are in everyday life

So, as a preliminary conclusion, how will you act in the future in the same situation?

Well I'll tell you what I won't do. I won't whine and suicide on the player spreading info around for 2 reasons...
1. because I might do the same thing; so I have lost my right to protest by default.
2. because I'm not a baby who takes the game way to seriously.

[HillBillyUNC]

I wouldn't tell anyone what I know about the map after I had died, but if I'm still alive I'm going to making all the deals I can to ensure victory. If that means I'm giving away the fact that your making yourself look stronger than you are, then so be it. I've have it done to me too..that's part of the fun of Fog of War.

I outright lied about having all of South America in this game to form an alliance with another player and got away with it: http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=8743804

Is that cheating? How is lying about what I hold any different than telling you what another player has?

BTW yes I was beating up on newbies. The only way for 'em to learn is to take a few Ls.

[shocked439]

I wouldn't tell anyone what I know about the map after I had died, but if I'm still alive I'm going to making all the deals I can to ensure victory. If that means I'm giving away the fact that your making yourself look stronger than you are, then so be it. I've have it done to me too..that's part of the fun of Fog of War.

I outright lied about having all of South America in this game to form an alliance with another player and got away with it: http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=8743804

Is that cheating? How is lying about what I hold any different than telling you what another player has?

BTW yes I was beating up on newbies. The only way for 'em to learn is to take a few Ls.

So, what's your other screen name?

[HillBillyUNC]

I don't have another screen name! I'm just a long time board game player coming over to the 'net for the first time. These guys were new to RISK all together AFAIK, we got together and played a pick-up-game yesterday for fun. Usually we play L4D .

So far I'm on a roll, but I got a feeling I'm going to lose the match I'm playing on the Civil war map right now. This guy I'm at peace with is planning on running me out of the North at some point.

Nice website btw, I'll be lurking. ^^

[Woodruff]

BTW yes I was beating up on newbies. The only way for 'em to learn is to take a few Ls.

Says the...newbie.

[HillBillyUNC]

I was kidding...-,-. Sorry if I don't have a wall of medals to show off like the rest of you, like I said I've been playing the board game.

Maybe my opinion doesn't matter because I'm a newbie eh? Or maybe I'm some vet that's so pro that I have to register multiple accounts and beat up on "the newbies".

The guys were new to the game, I knew I was going to win before the game started. I had to explain how to use spoils and the basics of the game to them, anyone that's even remotely experienced at RISK should be able to win in that situation. They were my friends, it was all in good fun. I just called 'em noobs because we poke fun at each other like that. It is the same thing in L4D when you miss a long range pounce and your buddy calls you a scrub.

If y'all want to play I'm up for getting stomped, invite me to a game. I'm just here to have a good time and try out some of my strategies, if they work I'll use them later when I play with my friends IRL.

I didn't mean to offend anyone btw, but I don't like begin accused of having multiple accounts and what-not when I've only been here for two days.

[SirSebstar]

Considering multis are a problem that is being dealt with as soon as possible and considering most people never heard of l4d and considering that the board game is nothing like cc, i'd have to not give you the benefit of the foubt. Now i dont matter much so please ignore me, but your story is rather odd...

[HillBillyUNC]

How is my story odd?

I invited friends, they registered, we played a couple of games. I lied to one of my friends when he asked if I had any land in South America so I could hold it and build a large army there. I then took Africa and later North America, eliminating one player and taking his spoils which allowed me to beat the other two.

All I said is lying about what you have is the same thing as giving away someones position. The fun of "fog of war" is not knowing or knowing and ratting to help your own cause. If I get green and purple in a war that benefits me by telling purple that green has large forces some place he can not see then that's good strategy. I'm pitting them against each other to give myself an advantage and I don't see how you could consider that cheating if I say it in the public chat.

If that's considered cheating you might as well remove the "fog of war" option and force everyone to play the old school way.

You guys are free to come up with theories of me having multiple accounts if you'd like. Trust me when I say this: if I had more than one account I wouldn't be stupid enough to start debating under them in the public forum. Give me a little more credit, I'm not an idiot.

Also, if CC was truly so different from the board game why is this place highly recommended when someone asks "hey, where can I play RISK online?". How do you think I found the place? The world map with the proper settings is basically exactly like the board game. I understand the other maps and options aren't...I'm exploring them slowly but surely.

Like I said I'm just here to have fun, add me, invite me, ignore me. I don't really care, there are plenty of people out there willing to play with me.

Edit - Excuse me, like I said I played two games with these guys. ^^ I can't remember if I lied about owning south america in the 3-player or 4-player game (I had it early on in both). Still my point remains, if your interested, here are the two games in question:

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=8743804
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=8744542

I assure you everyone had a blast. One of them was a kid who'd never played the board game or anything based on RISK before in his life. He ended up lasting til the end and going head to head with me. Sadly he was too bold in the early goings, so by the time it got down to us I had a much larger army than he did. He still had a good chance to win, just couldn't get those lucky dice.

[Woodruff]

Maybe my opinion doesn't matter because I'm a newbie eh?

I don't believe anyone has suggested that. I simply find it ironic that you would speak of newbies so disparagingly.

Or maybe I'm some vet that's so pro that I have to register multiple accounts and beat up on "the newbies".

It is unfortunately not an unknown or even particularly unusual situation here.

I didn't mean to offend anyone btw, but I don't like begin accused of having multiple accounts and what-not when I've only been here for two days.

I don't believe anyone here was offended. But by the same token, you shouldn't be offended if some here tend to think of you as a multi, based on your statements. It is a somewhat natural conclusion.

[HillBillyUNC]

What about me screams "This guy has multiple accounts"? Not seeking to keep an argument going, I'm just curious.

Your right, I probably should have left the whole "newbie" remark to myself. I don't use that word in an hateful way, I'm old school, we used to just call people newbies because they were new. We didn't use it as an insult. I just wanted to be clear that I knew the guys I was playing with yesterday were new to the game.

Maybe I just should have kept to myself instead of making my first post in a thread like this, oh well. As I said I'm just here for the fun, invite me to a game and I'll show you that I'm not some dishonest, cheating, newbie hating, multiple account using idiot. I haven't had the pleasure of trying a team-based mode yet. How about the three of us become friends on the battle field instead of bickering in this thread and taking it further and further off-topic? You guys can pick the map, odds are I haven't played on it yet.

[Woodruff]

What about me screams "This guy has multiple accounts"? Not seeking to keep an argument going, I'm just curious.

It's a good question. Truthfully, the fact that you found your way to the fora so quickly tends to be a sign. Then the newbie comment sort of solidified things. But hey, I'm perfectly willing to believe that you're not...it's not unheard of for a newbie to come to the fora quickly.

Your right, I probably should have left the whole "newbie" remark to myself. I don't use that word in an hateful way, I'm old school, we used to just call people newbies because they were new. We didn't use it as an insult. I just wanted to be clear that I knew the guys I was playing with yesterday were new to the game.

I actually didn't take it as a "mean" comment...I took it the way you're saying you intended it.

Maybe I just should have kept to myself instead of making my first post in a thread like this, oh well.

Why? So someone thinks you're a multi...big deal? Someone will do a multi-check on you, you'll be found innocent, and life goes on. No big deal at all.

I haven't had the pleasure of trying a team-based mode yet. How about the three of us become friends on the battle field instead of bickering in this thread and taking it further and further off-topic? You guys can pick the map, odds are I haven't played on it yet.

It's nice of you to offer. But I consider team-games to be for the intellectually challenged. <grin> But I do appreciate it.