Embassies?

Banana Stomper · Post by **Banana Stomper** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:07 pm

yea, i thought about the problem of having two countries having eachother's embassy. I don't think i did that in the map above, if i did, whoopsie.

About the terminology. I used embassy because they are sorta little areas of your own country in someone elses country. If war were to break out or something, one top priority is to get your ambassador and whatnot out. If they stay for some reason, its your own people and your own land you are trying to get back, so there would be reason to get your own embassy back(that explanation may be a bit of a stretch, but thats how its sorta goin in my mind.)

About the suggestions for alternatives. I don't know, most of them don't feel right. The only one that i could really see working and making sense would be army headquarters. They also have similar standing in that they are your territory in another country. Cities, towns, Capitals, seats of power, thrones.... I don't see how that would fit. One country doesn't usually have these things in other countries.

Do other people care for a different name? I still support Embassy. Hell, if all of those others were used before, where's the originality!?

freakshow · Post by **freakshow** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:18 pm

The US has army bases in other countries. In addition most embassies are designed like fortresses so it's totally reasonable that people be holed up inside of one, althogh maybe not in an all out war.

Black Jack · Post by **Black Jack** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:21 pm

Actually, we are on different wave-lengths.

I'm talking about a variant that designates one (1) territory, in each continent, as a City.

This City territory has the ability to grant additional armies... to the player that controls it.

A player does not have to control the Continent... to receive this bonus.

The City value for additional armies can be fixed rate (the same for all cities) or they can have a variable value.

I was slow to pick-up that your suggestion was different... my apologies.

Mr. K · Post by **Mr. K** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:22 pm

I'm all for the word Embassy. The other words don't really make sense, aside from maybe Military Base. But Embassy sounds a lot better.

Banana Stomper · Post by **Banana Stomper** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:24 pm

No problem, just glad to keep the discussion going.

Marvaddin · Post by **Marvaddin** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:32 pm

Yeah, I was wrong... its easier to represent than I first thought.

About the bonus, if we use 5 or more, its unfair, isnt it? I believe 2 is a good bonus, but honestly it will have minimum influence, even on strategy. A player will never go for a distant country, he will probably get the bonus when he spread already and is almost winning. But, ok, its another factor for the strategy.

About the name, I suggest outpost.

And, only for register, I first thought each continent would have an "ambassy" in each other, and this could be difficult to represent.

Black Jack · Post by **Black Jack** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:33 pm

No sweat, let's keep this topic hot.

As pointed out... this is the only problem I see with your suggestion:

one thing you have to be carefull of is not having a situation where:
country 1 has it's embassy in country 2
country 2 has it's embassy in country 1

I like how it forces a player to be more aggressive... against another player.

Banana Stomper · Post by **Banana Stomper** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Yea, i noticed i did make that mistake with purple and orange. I fixed that, thanks for pointing that out.

It's all good marv, just keep the criticism coming, it forces thought about the topic at hand

About the bonuses. I was thinking three would be a good number. One or two, as stated before would be too few, not worth the effort and risk. If the value is too high, say 5 for example, it would be like holding a whole other continent. I think i may bump summerset isle up to being worth three, and make the embassy bonus three. I don't think holding the embassy should be worth any more than holding a continent

Another thing. Would it be unreasonable to assign different embassy values. Like, it would be much easier to take cyrodiil's embassy for example. With a bonus of 7 or 8 its easy to take out your opponents. Summerset isle though, might be tough to get your embassy, so it should be worht a little more. Just a thought, haven't really thought it through or anything. Let me know how you guys feel about that.

Mr. K · Post by **Mr. K** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:02 pm

I'd say no more than 2 or 3. Maybe 3 for most continents, and 2 for the continents that are only worth 2 anyway?

Jota · Post by **Jota** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:10 pm

This sounds like a great gimmick for a map. Just to make sure I'm clear on the subject: in the above example, the country of Thorn would count as being part of two separate continents simultaneously, right? Black Marsh, like usual, plus the "Hammerfell + Embassy" meta-continent?

Personally, I'd probably score embassies as 2, but 3's pretty reasonable as well. I would think of it in terms of effectively A) increasing the number of countries in a continent by one, B) increasing the number of border countries in a continent by one, C) increasing the number of foreign continents being bordered, and D) splitting the continent. I might arbitrarily call A about a third of an army, B about two thirds, C about a third, and D at least one full army. So between two and three. And I'd make all embassies worth the same amount: otherwise, it'd just get confusing.

Oh, and I like the fact that you didn't have any continent directly bordering the one containing its embassy. I think that's very important, or else it'd be too easy to get a big bonus by expanding from one into the other. Also, mentioning how they work in the legend is important too, but I imagine you probably know that already.

Banana Stomper · Post by **Banana Stomper** » Mon May 01, 2006 8:49 am

i was thinking about possible ways explain the embassy in the legend, and i think i just came up with one. It would be difficult to go through some sort of long, drawn out explanation that would show what they are supposed to be in the legend. But what if in the legend i just put something along the lines of flags=embassies, and in the "How to Play" section of the site the idea can be introduced and explained. Hopefully those who don't know what it is would have the sense of mind to go hunting, or there could be some way to reference the "how to play" section to prompt them to check it out and not bitch. I assume this wouldn't be too much of an issue for long, eventually it would become common knowlege(i hope), and newcomers could have it explained to them.

Hoff · Post by **Hoff** » Mon May 01, 2006 9:37 am

silly noobs not knowing things

Jota · Post by **Jota** » Mon May 01, 2006 9:52 am

How about something like, "Owning the embassy (/~) that matches a continent's color increases the continent's bonus by X." Except with a miniature flag picture in place of the /~. And with the number you decide on in place of the X. Since it doesn't really seem appropriate to complicate the main instructions with material that only applies to one or even a couple maps.

Hoff · Post by **Hoff** » Mon May 01, 2006 9:54 am

That could work, you just need to find alittle more room in the Tamriel map to add that.

Derwiddle · Post by **Derwiddle** » Mon May 01, 2006 11:08 am

Marvaddin wrote:About the name, I suggest outpost.

I'd agree with that. Cause if you were in control of your outpost in a foreign country then you would of course have an advantage there. An embassy is for diplomatic purposes, intended to maintain peace. This is Risk we're talkin' here.

By the way... Would the bonus be deployed on the embassy or just anywhere you want?

Overall, it sounds like a good idea to me.

Hoff · Post by **Hoff** » Mon May 01, 2006 11:33 am

I think it would be anywhere you want. It wouldnt be worth much in most cases if you couldnt decide where to put them.

Banana Stomper · Post by **Banana Stomper** » Mon May 01, 2006 12:27 pm

I don't really have a problem with outpost. Although i sorta like the political feel of embassy. I'm fine with either one really.

Hoff · Post by **Hoff** » Mon May 01, 2006 12:33 pm

yea outpost works. But i really like embassy for some reason. But it up to a poll banana

Stoney229 · Post by **Stoney229** » Mon May 01, 2006 1:15 pm

I like you Marv, so please don't be offended, but I have a problem with all your posts saying things "this is a terrible map (don't make it)" It's okay if you don't like the map , you can say what you don't like about the map, but you don't have to play the map even if it is made. I theink every different map idea should be used if there is someone that wants to take the time to make that map. Even if there is a map that I really don't like and would never play, there are other people that will like that map and they will be benefitted by the new map, but it doesn't hurt me when I don't have to join those games. Does that make sense?

Banana Stomper · Post by **Banana Stomper** » Mon May 01, 2006 1:34 pm

Yes yes, fine fine, marv complains

but it's all in the spirit of improving the site.

But lets not get side tracked by such trivial matters that could be brought up in the flame forum or something. Bring the flame down to glowing embers, but nonetheless. How about them embassies!?

lackattack · Post by **lackattack** » Mon May 01, 2006 1:46 pm

I think these embassies will make an interesting map and will require zero programming on my side. Wouldn't this do the trick for the Black Marsh embassy?

Code: Select all

<continent>
	<name>Black Marsh</name>
	<bonus>3</bonus>
	<components>
		<component>Thorn</component>
		<component>Murkwood</component>
		<component>Soulrest</component>
		<component>Lilmoth</component>
		<component>Archon</component>
	</components>
</continent>
<continent>
	<name>Black Marsh Embassy</name>
	<bonus>2</bonus>
	<components>
		<component>Thorn</component>
		<component>Murkwood</component>
		<component>Soulrest</component>
		<component>Lilmoth</component>
		<component>Archon</component>
		<component>Wayrest</component>
	</components>
</continent>

Mr. K · Post by **Mr. K** » Mon May 01, 2006 1:59 pm

I still prefer the name Embassy to anything else.

As for explaining it on the map, how about just putting a picture of the flag underneath the continent names and write "+2."
Or if you think people wouldn't understand that, maybe make the key a little wider, and after the initial number of bonuses, you put that territories flag color and wrote "+2" next to the flag.

Hoff · Post by **Hoff** » Mon May 01, 2006 3:35 pm

lackattack wrote:I think these embassies will make an interesting map and will require zero programming on my side. Wouldn't this do the trick for the Black Marsh embassy?

Code: Select all

<continent>
	<name>Black Marsh</name>
	<bonus>3</bonus>
	<components>
		<component>Thorn</component>
		<component>Murkwood</component>
		<component>Soulrest</component>
		<component>Lilmoth</component>
		<component>Archon</component>
	</components>
</continent>
<continent>
	<name>Black Marsh Embassy</name>
	<bonus>2</bonus>
	<components>
		<component>Thorn</component>
		<component>Murkwood</component>
		<component>Soulrest</component>
		<component>Lilmoth</component>
		<component>Archon</component>
		<component>Wayrest</component>
	</components>
</continent>

Yea that looks like it would work. Alittle extra work for bananastomper, but nothign really big. Do it up stomper! If you need my help let me know.

Banana Stomper · Post by **Banana Stomper** » Tue May 02, 2006 6:35 pm

Its gonna be embassy, and here's why. Tamriel isn't really a battlefield. Its more diplomatic. And besides, conquerclub could use some politics. there's more to war than war.