Second Boer War

[CJ Lues]

+5 bonus to Cutty Sark seems like a huge bonus to me. That should at the very least start with a large neutral presence

Yes i forgot to put that in, Cutty Shark starts with 20 neutral

[theBastard]

add names under the men´s pictures.
maybe you could try to add names and army numbers direct to ports. I think there is enough place on the map.
20 neutral and 15 neutral looks as too much.

[Blitzstrahl]

Hi CJ,

As I have mentioned to you before (in a PM), I think Boer Commandoes would be a great addition to the map. And as I suggested, maybe it could work a little like "Naval Superiority" in the map "Eastern Hemisphere".

Also in the map legend, it says "impossible" in stead of "impassable".

Best,
Blitz

[CJ Lues]

Hi CJ,

As I have mentioned to you before (in a PM), I think Boer Commandoes would be a great addition to the map. And as I suggested, maybe it could work a little like "Naval Superiority" in the map "Eastern Hemisphere".

Also in the map legend, it says "impossible" in stead of "impassable".

Best,
Blitz

Hey Blitz

Do you think a comando will be better than General De La Rey and Lord Kitchener?

"impossible" in stead of "impassable".

Thanx

[CJ Lues]

I what to add the Boer Commando like Blitzstrahl suggested...

i just want your opinion about which cannon to use... the top or bottom one???

[Blitzstrahl]

Hi CJ,

I think Boer Commandoes would be a great addition to the map. And as I suggested, maybe it could work a little like "Naval Superiority" in the map "Eastern Hemisphere".

Best,
Blitz

Do you think a comando will be better than General De La Rey and Lord Kitchener?

Certainly - besides "boer commandoes" gives a special flavour to the game map that reflects the particularities of that war that the game represent.

And I would take the "bottom" cannon

Best
Blitz

[CJ Lues]

OK, its now the Second Boer War with a Boer commando added!

Changes:

-Deleted General De La Ray and Lord Kitchener
-Added a Boer commando (the photo of De La Ray represents the Boer Commando and can assault and be assaulted by the 5 cannons on the map), the Boer Commando will have a Killer Neutral of 5
-Added a twist to the harbors (plz give your opinion on it)!

Click image to enlarge.

[Blitzstrahl]

CJ, I think you are getting there.

With regard to the Boer Commando - I obviously think it is a good concept But I have suggestion on how to refine it:

(1) In keeping with the spirit of the Boer Commando, you should consider only allowing entry to the "Boer Commando" from the Boer Nations (Transvaal and Orange Free State - as I recall). And not from all the territories with canons.

(2) Following from that the Boer Commando should only allow (one-way) attacks against territories outside Transvaal and Orange free state.

This will lead to a lopsided use of the "Boer Commando" - but that is the same principle as in "Naval Superiority".

Also, on a different point - I am bit uneasy about the +5 autodeploy. (maybe the autodeploy should be more modest and with a smaller neutral army presence).

Finally, I would make gold and diamonds to neutral 5 areas.

Keep up the good work,

Blitz

[CJ Lues]

CJ, I think you are getting there.

With regard to the Boer Commando - I obviously think it is a good concept But I have suggestion on how to refine it:

(1) In keeping with the spirit of the Boer Commando, you should consider only allowing entry to the "Boer Commando" from the Boer Nations (Transvaal and Orange Free State - as I recall). And not from all the territories with canons.

(2) Following from that the Boer Commando should only allow (one-way) attacks against territories outside Transvaal and Orange free state.

This will lead to a lopsided use of the "Boer Commando" - but that is the same principle as in "Naval Superiority".

Also, on a different point - I am bit uneasy about the +5 autodeploy. (maybe the autodeploy should be more modest and with a smaller neutral army presence).

Finally, I would make gold and diamonds to neutral 5 areas.

Keep up the good work,

Blitz

Thanx Blitz!!! ill start working!

[joemaya]

Hey CJ,

Cool stuff. I don't know anything about the Boer War so can't suggest from a historical point of view. But as blitz said, I too am not comfy with the idea of 5 auto-deploy every turn... maybe should be 2 or 3.

Secondly, the Duetch West, don't you feel the left part of it is quite isolated and highly secure.. no one can get in apart from springook... even the lands on the other side that belong to the same state... so probably that should be made a bit flexible, unless that's how history tells it, then just ignore what i said

Though there is something wrong in that area, West Karas is mentioned on two regions... typing mistake i presume... but nonetheless, great job. Keep it up. Hope to play the map soon

[thenobodies80]

Please update your first post with the latest images. Thanks

[CJ Lues]

Hey CJ,

Cool stuff. I don't know anything about the Boer War so can't suggest from a historical point of view. But as blitz said, I too am not comfy with the idea of 5 auto-deploy every turn... maybe should be 2 or 3.

Yes i think i will reduce it to 3 or so (btw, the Second Boer War was won by the English because they were able to renew and receive troops from England)... but think it might be too much for the game...

Secondly, the Duetch West, don't you feel the left part of it is quite isolated and highly secure.. no one can get in apart from springbook... even the lands on the other side that belong to the same state... so probably that should be made a bit flexible, unless that's how history tells it, then just ignore what i said

I did that because if you look at a map of Southern Africa, you will see it looks like "an under side of an eating plate" mountains around the edges and "bowl shape" to the centre... i could change it a little bit, any ideas???

Though there is something wrong in that area, West Karas is mentioned on two regions... typing mistake i presume... but nonetheless, great job. Keep it up. Hope to play the map soon

About West Karas, typing mistake... sorry!

Thanx Joe!

[CJ Lues]

My latest update...

Changed:
Boer Commando- all stars can assault the Commando and the Commando can one-way assault all Cannons

[Bruceswar]

Few quick points...

Recut out those ships. They need to be redone, along with some of the connecting lines.

Redraw your black borders. The thicker ones.

Check to make sure numbers will fit in there.

[MrBenn]

You're coming on nicely - although as Bruce says, pretty much the whole map will probably have to be redrawn a couple of times before you've finished

I think you need to start thinking a little more carefully about some of the gameplay features - things seem to be a little crowded and busy, and a little confusing... The Boer Commando, for example... how exaclty does that contribute towards gameplay - yes it provides an attack route, but it'll almost always be better to attack from your front lines than to have reserves on your back lines (where the stars are) in order to go through a neutral 5....

[CJ Lues]

OK, my version 2.1

Changes:
- Map it self redrawn
- Bonus graphics changed
- Ship attack lines changed
- Game play changed (Boer Commando Borders Bloemfontein & Pretoria & can one way attack all other Capitals - will reset to 5 neutral in beginning of every turn)

Click image to enlarge.

Plz tell me what you think

[CJ Lues]

Any ideas on improvements???

[Master Fenrir]

CJ, how many regions would each player start with for 2 thru 8-player games?

[CJ Lues]

CJ, how many regions would each player start with for 2 thru 8-player games?

I updated the main post General...

Starting places 61 regions:
2 prayers = 30
3 prayers = 20
4 players = 15
5 players = 12
6 players = 10
7 players = 8
8 players = 7

[Bruceswar]

CJ, how many regions would each player start with for 2 thru 8-player games?

I updated the main post General...

Starting places 61 regions:
2 prayers = 30
3 prayers = 20
4 players = 15
5 players = 12
6 players = 10
7 players = 8
8 players = 7

Does this factor in the neutrals?

[CJ Lues]

CJ, how many regions would each player start with for 2 thru 8-player games?

I updated the main post General...

Starting places 61 regions:
2 prayers = 30
3 prayers = 20
4 players = 15
5 players = 12
6 players = 10
7 players = 8
8 players = 7

Does this factor in the neutrals?

This is without the 4 auto start places...

Regions: 65
Neutral: 4 regions start neutral (Cutty Shark = 5, Kimberly and Johannesburg = 5, Boer Commando = 5)
Starting places 61 regions:

[Master Fenrir]

Click image to enlarge.

Starting places 61 regions:
2 players = 30
3 players = 20
4 players = 15
5 players = 12
6 players = 10
7 players = 8
8 players = 7

I have no idea how map coding works, but you may want to reduce the number of starting regions for 2 & 3 player games. In a 2 player, the first person to move is going to start dropping 10. That will usually seal the game right there.

Here's my thoughts on gameplay issues for 2-team dubs, trips, and quads games.
Dubs: 15 regions, starting drop of 5
Trips: 10 regions, starting drop of 3
Quads: 7 regions, starting drop of 3

Diamond & Gold (5 starting neuts for +1 drop each)
While this may be worthwhile in a dubs game where you start dropping 5, I can't see imagine them having much use in a trips or quads. Assuming 50/50 dice, it will cost you 5 troops to kill the neutral 5 in order to get a +1 drop. It will take you 5 rounds of holding this just to break even. In trips and quads games between good players, I think this will be useless. You could either increase the bonus value or possibly reduce them to starting with 3 neut troops to make them a bit more useful.

Hold All Capitals bonus
Capitals almost never work. Based on the map as is, if you can manage to take all 5 capitals, there are 20-21 total bordering regions* from which you can be assaulted and the bonus can be broken. I can't see many teams trying to take this bonus. The best tweak I can think of would be to possibly make it a collections bonus with a reduced bonus value, like "Hold any 3 capitals for a +2 bonus."

20-21 total bordering regions*
In the Transvaal Republic bonus zone, is there a missing line border between Rustenburg and Nylstroom?

Cutty Shark (5 starting neut troops, +5 auto)
I see an issue with this as well. From what I can see, Cutty Shark only borders Spartan. You will have to use a good amount of troops to take it from Spartan, and then be stuck with a +5 auto deploy with which you will have to fort forward to the front line, possibly taking several rounds to be moved anywhere that they could be useful. If you gave the Cutty Shark some offensive power and it could bombard some land-based regions, though, this would be useful, but you'd have to carefully limit which territories it could bombard or it would be too over-powered. I think offensive power may cause a history/theme/gameplay usefulness conflict, though, so I'm a bit unsure.

Boer Commando (5 killer neut troops)
This won't come into play much in team games. If you changed the Hold all Capitals bonus to a smaller collection instead of having to hold all 5, you might see it have more use. I think it might actually be pretty useful in large, standard escalating games, though, as it will act a lot like Naval Superiority on the Eastern Hemisphere map.

Again, I think all of those map features will play more into dubs games where you can start dropping 5, so you'd have more troops to throw around. In a trips and quads game, though, I think the game will develop from a grind over Swazy Land unless a drop is particularly favorable for something else.

Anyways, just my thoughts. You asked for my input, so I tried to be honest from a team game standpoint. I hope I wasn't too critical.

[CJ Lues]

I have no idea how map coding works, but you may want to reduce the number of starting regions for 2 & 3 player games. In a 2 player, the first person to move is going to start dropping 10. That will usually seal the game right there.

Here's my thoughts on gameplay issues for 2-team dubs, trips, and quads games.
Dubs: 15 regions, starting drop of 5
Trips: 10 regions, starting drop of 3
Quads: 7 regions, starting drop of 3

I see what you mean, will try and work it out!

Diamond & Gold (5 starting neuts for +1 drop each)
While this may be worthwhile in a dubs game where you start dropping 5, I can't see imagine them having much use in a trips or quads. Assuming 50/50 dice, it will cost you 5 troops to kill the neutral 5 in order to get a +1 drop. It will take you 5 rounds of holding this just to break even. In trips and quads games between good players, I think this will be useless. You could either increase the bonus value or possibly reduce them to starting with 3 neut troops to make them a bit more useful.

Yes your right, what i think is to keep it 5 neutral but to make it a +3 for holding it...?

Hold All Capitals bonus
Capitals almost never work. Based on the map as is, if you can manage to take all 5 capitals, there are 20-21 total bordering regions* from which you can be assaulted and the bonus can be broken. I can't see many teams trying to take this bonus. The best tweak I can think of would be to possibly make it a collections bonus with a reduced bonus value, like "Hold any 3 capitals for a +2 bonus."

Thats a good idea! So +1 for holding 2 capitals, +2 for holding 3 capitals and so on...

20-21 total bordering regions*
In the Transvaal Republic bonus zone, is there a missing line border between Rustenburg and Nylstroom?

Yes there is a missing border line, sorry. It will be fixed in the next update!

Cutty Shark (5 starting neut troops, +5 auto)
I see an issue with this as well. From what I can see, Cutty Shark only borders Spartan. You will have to use a good amount of troops to take it from Spartan, and then be stuck with a +5 auto deploy with which you will have to fort forward to the front line, possibly taking several rounds to be moved anywhere that they could be useful. If the Cutty Shark could bombard some land-based regions, though, this would be useful, but you'd have to carefully limit which territories it could bombard or it would be too over-powered.

I will give this some thought...

Boer Commando (5 killer neut troops)
This won't come into play much in team games. If you changed the Hold all Capitals bonus to a smaller collection instead of having to hold all 5, you might see it have more use. I think it might actually be pretty useful in large, standard escalating games, though, as it will act a lot like Naval Superiority on the Eastern Hemisphere map.

Yes, it was the idea to be like Naval Superiority on the Eastern Hemisphere map...

Again, I think all of those map features will play more into dubs games where you can start dropping 5, so you'd have more troops to throw around. In a trips and quads game, though, I think the game will develop from a grind over Swazy Land unless a drop is particularly favorable for something else.

Anyways, just my thoughts. You asked for my input, so I tried to be honest from a team game standpoint. I hope I wasn't too critical.

It is Great advice, THANX General!!!
Ill get started on it right away!

[CJ Lues]

Update- version 3.1

Changed:
- Diamonds and Gold (+1 changed to +3)
- Cutty Shark (one-way attack COGH and Durban)
- Capitals (hold 3 capitals +2)
- Missing border line between Rustenburg and Nylstroom fixed

Click image to enlarge.

[CJ Lues]

When do you know your map meets all the criteria for a draft and is ready to move on to the next step?