Conquer Club

eddie2 wrote:well i hate to say something here. but although i agree this is abuse of the game engine (this is what it fell under in the past.) the fact admin and c and a mods are allowing people to abuse the not getting a 5th spoil in nuclear spoils games counters the previous results in these cases. until they get a clear rule across the board to sort all types of abuse out of people missing not ending turns then they cannot pick and choose who to punish. like the examples shown of previous cases. 2 were just closed then the last was noted. it looks like the usual thing if the name fits.

I understand what you mean, but how is it fair that the people that were mentioned above got warned and caymanmew does not for the exact same offence? I think the nuke games is interesting but sort of irrelevant, compared with the evidence provided by jefjef.. But that's a mod's call.

NoSurvivors wrote:

eddie2 wrote:well i hate to say something here. but although i agree this is abuse of the game engine (this is what it fell under in the past.) the fact admin and c and a mods are allowing people to abuse the not getting a 5th spoil in nuclear spoils games counters the previous results in these cases. until they get a clear rule across the board to sort all types of abuse out of people missing not ending turns then they cannot pick and choose who to punish. like the examples shown of previous cases. 2 were just closed then the last was noted. it looks like the usual thing if the name fits.

I understand what you mean, but how is it fair that the people that were mentioned above got warned and caymanmew does not for the exact same offence? I think the nuke games is interesting but sort of irrelevant, compared with the evidence provided by jefjef.. But that's a mod's call.

what i am saying is this.

city mogul
if experianced on the map if you get first turn you will win the game. so missing the first round is a tactical move... (meaning you know you are going to get first turn winning you the game)
nuc spoil
taking your shot and not ending to get 5th card and possibly nucing 5 of your own regions is a tactical move helping you win the game.

both of these are abusing the game engine and not playing the game as it was intended.. so like i say if people are guilty in city mogul then they have to start making it that players are guilty in nuc spoils as well.
i see people in this thread have mentioned because medals are awarded for manual well i can tell you some players who have nuc spoils medals but have used the tactic above to get it. so they have not even played a proper nuc spoil game.

A odd moment here, I am going to have to agree with Eddie, both are gross abuse of the game as how it was intended to be played.

Therefore both should be punished in the same way for every player.

eddie2 wrote:

NoSurvivors wrote:

eddie2 wrote:well i hate to say something here. but although i agree this is abuse of the game engine (this is what it fell under in the past.) the fact admin and c and a mods are allowing people to abuse the not getting a 5th spoil in nuclear spoils games counters the previous results in these cases. until they get a clear rule across the board to sort all types of abuse out of people missing not ending turns then they cannot pick and choose who to punish. like the examples shown of previous cases. 2 were just closed then the last was noted. it looks like the usual thing if the name fits.

I understand what you mean, but how is it fair that the people that were mentioned above got warned and caymanmew does not for the exact same offence? I think the nuke games is interesting but sort of irrelevant, compared with the evidence provided by jefjef.. But that's a mod's call.

what i am saying is this.

city mogul
if experianced on the map if you get first turn you will win the game. so missing the first round is a tactical move... (meaning you know you are going to get first turn winning you the game)
nuc spoil
taking your shot and not ending to get 5th card and possibly nucing 5 of your own regions is a tactical move helping you win the game.

both of these are abusing the game engine and not playing the game as it was intended.. so like i say if people are guilty in city mogul then they have to start making it that players are guilty in nuc spoils as well.
i see people in this thread have mentioned because medals are awarded for manual well i can tell you some players who have nuc spoils medals but have used the tactic above to get it. so they have not even played a proper nuc spoil game.

Hmm now I see what you mean, but doesn't that mean that they should all be warned since the other city mogul abusers have been? o.O not trying to defend anything but it just makes more sense to me xD

yes it makes more sense but it is also double standards.. like i said i see it as abuse but mods and admin dont see the nuc spoils version as abuse. all i am saying they need to correct the rules on this and make it a written rule that can be read.. if they agree to this then it should only get a noted because from what i understand cayman is several stages into his bans and this will be a big ban for a rule that is not written properly, or even or even for a rule that is used for 1 style of game play on a certain map. but not used for a style of game play on another map.

caymanmew, you aren't "braking" any rules.........you're "breaking" them. PLEASE learn the proper words.


As NoSurvivors states, City Mogul should be blocked from Manual games because the deployment stage is the same as it being automatic. caymanmew is clearly abusing this facet in order to guarantee that he goes first in the game, thereby guaranteeing that he wins. He doesn't actually miss any game turns, only the deployment phase.

In freestyle he would still be able to do similar tricks even with automatic deploy.

Its the old freestyle-missed turn = double turn-loophole.

he did it to me a while ago, I'm sure I posted but not much done about it, probably as I had some kind of miracle which enabled me to win.

Night Strike wrote: caymanmew is clearly abusing this facet in order to guarantee that he goes first in the game, thereby guaranteeing that he wins. He doesn't actually miss any game turns, only the deployment phase.

like i have said it is a tactic for that type of map and setting.

previous cases.

Evil Semp wrote:This report is about game tactic/strategy of a particular game setting, this will be taken on a case by case basis. I would also mention that deliberately having other players to wait is very poor sportsmanship and should not be habitually done, especially if your motive is to annoy someone. I believe in this case it could be considered annoying because the next player seemed to be online waiting for his next turn. This report will be NOTED.

to be found here.
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/postin ... &p=3338573

there are more cases but 1 should be enough to proove the point.

60 percent of people posting in this case are saying if you know the map you need to have first shot to win the map it is very rare to win if you go 2nd.

so what cayman was doing is this

using a tactic to win a map..... so result of this case should be a cleared and a rule update.

eddie, wouldn't this fall under a "case-by-case" basis that should get its own ruling? You use that phrase to claim that he should automatically be cleared, which would mean it's not a "case-by-case" situation. "Case-by-case" means that the results from another case can not necessarily be used to determine the outcome of this particular case. You state that 60% of the people say it's impossible to win on this map going 2nd. By your own comments and from the games in questions, caymanmew is manipulating the game engine to guarantee that he goes first, which all but guarantees that he will also win the game. In my opinion, he should be warned that his tactics are a gross abuse of the game and City Mogul should be a map that is blocked from the Manual setting.

i agree city mougal should be blocked from it. but i also think a lot of the problems in c and a is the fact certain rules are used against certain players (ones that are not clear.) so instead of a warning the rule should be made more clear for us all.

i mean why is missing a opening turn to near all but make sure you win a game any different to timing out to make sure you dont take a 5th card and have to nuc yourself.
i know they take it on case by case but it should not be case by case there should be a clear set of rules that any case coming up gets dealt with the same.

eddie2 wrote:i agree city mougal should be blocked from it. but i also think a lot of the problems in c and a is the fact certain rules are used against certain players (ones that are not clear.) so instead of a warning the rule should be made more clear for us all.

i mean why is missing a opening turn to near all but make sure you win a game any different to timing out to make sure you dont take a 5th card and have to nuc yourself.
i know they take it on case by case but it should not be case by case there should be a clear set of rules that any case coming up gets dealt with the same.

Not every case is 100% the same though. I'm sure they will draw upon similar cases in the past when they make their decisions, but not every case has happened the exact same way before.

If CC would just fix things -there would be no issues

caymanmew has received a WARNING.

thank you. hopefully he learns.

NoSurvivors wrote:thank you. hopefully he learns.

i have learned....a new rule

lol I wonder why all the people posting in this thread are foed by me? I only foe losers.. that cannot be the case here.

caymanmew wrote:

NoSurvivors wrote:thank you. hopefully he learns.

i have learned....a new rule

that was funny

NoSurvivors wrote:Missing a turn is dead beating.

In the unwritten rules section of the rules it states:

"Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits."

Once again, the MH's are making up new rules. Deadbeating is by definition:

"Not fulfilling one's obligations or paying one's debts"

or in the case of CC rules :

"the missing of 3 consecutive turns."

He is fulfilling his obligation by finishing the game, so it isn't deadbeating.

This ruling should fall under the same sort of thing as giving away a persons position in a FOG game. It is underhanded and to a point a little dishonest, but there isn't anything illegal about it.
If we were to give a deadbeat tag to everyone who misses a turn and gains an advatage by getting extra troops it would be disasterous for the MH's. Hell, CC promotes missing turns to a point by giving players deferred troops.

Evolution299 wrote:

NoSurvivors wrote:Missing a turn is dead beating.

In the unwritten rules section of the rules it states:

"Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits."

Once again, the MH's are making up new rules. Deadbeating is by definition:

"Not fulfilling one's obligations or paying one's debts"

or in the case of CC rules :

"the missing of 3 consecutive turns."

He is fulfilling his obligation by finishing the game, so it isn't deadbeating.

This ruling should fall under the same sort of thing as giving away a persons position in a FOG game. It is underhanded and to a point a little dishonest, but there isn't anything illegal about it.
If we were to give a deadbeat tag to everyone who misses a turn and gains an advatage by getting extra troops it would be disasterous for the MH's. Hell, CC promotes missing turns to a point by giving players deferred troops.

This technique doesn't classify as deadbeating but it violates "any gross abuse of the game". Please note that the clarification clearly states "This includes but is not limited to:", leaving room for this.

Evolution299 wrote:

NoSurvivors wrote:Missing a turn is dead beating.

In the unwritten rules section of the rules it states:

"Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits."

Once again, the MH's are making up new rules. Deadbeating is by definition:

"Not fulfilling one's obligations or paying one's debts"

or in the case of CC rules :

"the missing of 3 consecutive turns."

He is fulfilling his obligation by finishing the game, so it isn't deadbeating.

This ruling should fall under the same sort of thing as giving away a persons position in a FOG game. It is underhanded and to a point a little dishonest, but there isn't anything illegal about it.
If we were to give a deadbeat tag to everyone who misses a turn and gains an advatage by getting extra troops it would be disasterous for the MH's. Hell, CC promotes missing turns to a point by giving players deferred troops.

They are NOT making up new rules. cayman was not found guilty and warned for deadbeating. he was warned for intentionally missing turns to gain an advantage of which there is plenty of precedent. He was found guilty of GAME ABUSE. If you are going to yell foul at least get it right.

Really this is game abuse? Missing a turn is game abuse? Every turn a player misses gains them an advantage through deferred troops. Until the game is out of hand and a single player has a decisive advantage.

This ruling means anyone who thinks there opponent gained an advantage by them missing a turn can file a complaint and it will result in a warning. There is no difference because of getting deferred troops.

And if you are going to critize JubJub, read my quote. It was in response to No Survivors quote that stated deadbeating is the missing of a turn.

Evolution299 wrote:Really this is game abuse? Missing a turn is game abuse? Every turn a player misses gains them an advantage through deferred troops. Until the game is out of hand and a single player has a decisive advantage.

This ruling means anyone who thinks there opponent gained an advantage by them missing a turn can file a complaint and it will result in a warning. There is no difference because of getting deferred troops.

I think you're overlooking the difference between the intentional missing of turns on this report and someone being too busy to take a turn. This is extremely different than a normal missed turn and actually does provide an advantage. Deferred troops do not give you a benefit greater than taking your turn.

Don't forget that Cayman fully acknowledged that he was intentionally missing his turns in order to gain an advantage that is clearly contrary to how the games were supposed to be played. There is no doubt that this is game abuse.

Evolution299 wrote:Really this is game abuse? Missing a turn is game abuse? Every turn a player misses gains them an advantage through deferred troops. Until the game is out of hand and a single player has a decisive advantage.

This ruling means anyone who thinks there opponent gained an advantage by them missing a turn can file a complaint and it will result in a warning. There is no difference because of getting deferred troops.

And if you are going to critize JubJub, read my quote. It was in response to No Survivors quote that stated deadbeating is the missing of a turn.

You either have failed to understand this complaint, or are being willfully ignorant. You really should go back and re-read the whole thread. I'm very thankful that I'm not in the C&A department, so I don't have to deal with all the nonsense that is being spouted off by certain individuals on this site. This complaint has nothing to do with deferred troops; in fact, there are no deferred troops awarded in these games. But again, you've either not read the complaint, not understood what you're reading, or are being willfully ignorant.

Evolution299 wrote:Really this is game abuse? Missing a turn is game abuse? Every turn a player misses gains them an advantage through deferred troops. Until the game is out of hand and a single player has a decisive advantage.

This ruling means anyone who thinks there opponent gained an advantage by them missing a turn can file a complaint and it will result in a warning. There is no difference because of getting deferred troops.

And if you are going to critize JubJub, read my quote. It was in response to No Survivors quote that stated deadbeating is the missing of a turn.

how is this not game abuse? i missed turns to get an advantage and a almost sure win i think it should be in the rules so people know it is braking a rule but i do see how this is game abuse and so does everyone else so dont bother arguing this its not worth your time