Conquer Club

I didnt know what was going on, so I looked at his recent games.

Looks like he has been throwing temper tantrums and intentionally missing turns he is losing in. Someone reported it and CC finally had enough. This isn't the first time it has been done to someone either. If he is in Vegas and needs a sitter, how is he still actively playing speed games?

I didn't include the speed games he did it in as that shouldn't be penalized, there were several of those as well.

During the time he was missing turns in these games, he was actively playing others with several speed games mixed in between.

Game 22464395
Game 22423093
Game 22433244
Game 22433204
Game 22448294

And that was a casual game, while proving he had been taking turns in other games other than mine at the time.

If anyone checks speed poly games just from today will find at least 10 player have deabeated games. So either we are all banned or noone is.

TrafalgarLaw01 wrote:If anyone checks speed poly games just from today will find at least 10 player have deabeated games. So either we are all banned or noone is.

The games I listed were not speed.

xroads wrote:

TrafalgarLaw01 wrote:If anyone checks speed poly games just from today will find at least 10 player have deabeated games. So either we are all banned or noone is.

The games I listed were not speed.

two of them were. also, speed or not is irrelevant anyway. when scott got a warning or ban for deadbeating previously (cant remember which) he reported other people who were also deadbeating lost games. reports got closed with no punishment.

bit weird.

also, the first game you listed was against ZornSlayer. same player literally deadbeated a game vs Scott Game 22464396 because they didnt like the map.

*Pixar* wrote:And that was a casual game, while proving he had been taking turns in other games other than mine at the time.

strange you dont report everyone who's deadbeated against you tho

just double standards and hypocrisy taking over, with a sprinkle of insecurities.

at least soon you lot can carry on playing the game and wanking each other off over how cool you are in an online risk game, while sending PMs to snitch on people you dont like, but turning a blind eye if any of your friends break a rule.

some really special people lol.

my bad you are right, but still missing a ton of turns in losing games while playing other games and speed games.

In the end, its against the rules to intentionally miss a ton of turns in games you are losing while playing other games.

xroads wrote:In the end, its against the rules to intentionally miss a ton of turns in games you are losing while playing other games.

lets ban everyone who does it then

also i made edits to my post while u were typing

iAmCaffeine wrote:

xroads wrote:In the end, its against the rules to intentionally miss a ton of turns in games you are losing while playing other games.

lets ban everyone who does it then

also i made edits to my post while u were typing

Again its not a perma ban. Instead they are getting his attention.

xroads wrote:

iAmCaffeine wrote:

xroads wrote:In the end, its against the rules to intentionally miss a ton of turns in games you are losing while playing other games.

lets ban everyone who does it then

also i made edits to my post while u were typing

Again its not a perma ban. Instead they are getting his attention.

whether or not is a perma is completely irrelevant when other people deadbeat games constantly and receive no punishment lol

xroads you have deadbeated 1v1 speed games before. were you ever banned, or even warned?

pixar has too funnily enough

but happy to report others and / or say the ban is deserved

fucking hypocrites lmao

nope

And we arent talking speed. IF it was ONLY speed I wouldnt give 2 shits. But it't not just speed games. Nor is it because he is in Vegas.

We are talking about normal games that he being a dick and missing turns in.

the rule is about intentionally deadbeating. speed or normal is irrelevant.

why are u even commenting if ur this dumb

Doc_Brown wrote:There is no report in the C&A forum, which indicates a private report. Usually, the people doing that are players that have been active on the site for a while, are known in the forums, and already have a contentious relationship with the accused. It's not tough to scan NSS's most recent games in which he lost (and deadbeated) and make some guesses about who might be the reporter.

Setting that aside, is it now the official rule of the site that if you deadbeat in one game but not in another you can expect a ban? I've always understood the rule to be "intentional" deadbeating. If someone has intermittent access to the site due to travel (or other reasons), are we now to expect that player to be at a significant risk of receiving a ban? What about when a player is completely out and has a sitter, but said sitter fails to take turns in one or more games (for whatever reason)? I've sat for players before that have told me to just sit for their clan games and not to worry about the public and/or tournament games (which sometimes results in a deadbeat). Should I face a ban for having "intentionally deadbeated" while sitting for an account?

This seems pretty foolish to me. Maybe there is more to the story. But if that's the case, there should be a public record somewhere of what rule was actually broken with clarifying details so that the rest of us can understand how the rules are meant to be applied. I'm no fan of NSS, and neither am I antagonistic towards him, but from an outsider's perspective, this looks like a capricious report by someone that dislikes NSS and an overly harsh punishment for something that isn't actually a big deal and isn't consistently enforced anyway. I agree with Groovy. I also think this kind of thing will chase away others than just NSS, and it won't just be the most annoying people.

Specifically:

Setting that aside, is it now the official rule of the site that if you deadbeat in one game but not in another you can expect a ban? I've always understood the rule to be "intentional" deadbeating

AFAIK nothing about the rule has changed nor setting new precedent. I haven’t looked at the details as I don’t have the time to fully wade in here, just trying to present facts as I’m able and clarity when possible.

I wasn’t involved in the NSS case until I got notified the forum was being spammed, which was the only point in which I got involved here.

xroads wrote: During the time he was missing turns in these games, he was actively playing others with several speed games mixed in between.

It seems to me he played speed game until the 3rd of may, and stopped until the 10th of May.
And all the 24h games you posted, he missed turns between the 3rd and the 10th. ( more like 5th, 6th, 7h).

So, unless I missed a game, no he wasn't actively playing other speed games while deadbeating.

Game 21431035

Back when I reported him it was his 3rd offense. And clearly admits it in the game chat while he was a mod at the time. So please don’t even try to attempt to tell me he doesn’t do this on purpose lol. Maybe this time wasn’t on purpose but when you’re on your 4th or 5th offense there’s no excuses. And I would love to see one game where I have deadbeated a casual game on purpose while taking other turns during that time coffeeboy

Honest question: What is actually wrong with deadbeating?

There are some obvious cases where it is a problem:

1. When playing against a freemium player, this can slow the game down. However, missing a couple turns, then taking one, then missing a few more would not be deadbeating. In either case, this could be covered under the holding hostage rule anyway, so I don't think this case is relevant.
2. In multiplayer tournament games, losing without taking turns could allow the player (or a clanmate) to gain standing in the tournament as a whole. This is easily solved by introducing a standard default tournament rule that deadbeating in tournaments without a reasonable justification may result in disqualification (at the discretion of the TO).
3. In team games, deadbeating results in territories being taking over by a teammate, which can give a big unfair advantage. This is already banned in all clan wars, and I assume also in tournaments. In casual games, it may be tough to enforce, but this does seem to be one case where deadbeating is actually a problem.
4. In assassin games, deadbeating causes the person targeting you to get reassigned to have to go after your target. This can dramatically impact a game where a player has built up his forces to go after you, only to have the requirements completely change. So it's also a problem here.
5. It can be used for point dumping. Sure, but we already have a rule against point dumping.
6. In speed games it can be really annoying for a player to just drop out and start playing other speed games. But is this really the case? If I'm losing a speed game already and decide to deadbeat, it's over in 3-15 minutes (depending on the round length). If I take my turns though, it forces my opponent to actually come and kill me, which may take much longer (and if I'm frustrated at the game and want to be annoying without breaking any rules, I can stretch my turn out and take it as late as possible, which ensures a much longer game). To me, allowing deadbeating in speed games seems to offer a net benefit!
7. In casual games, it is annoying to wait on a player that is losing anyway that decided to just deadbeat. However, I've played against multiple players (and certain clans seem to make a habit of this) that seem to slow their turns way down when they are losing. So they're taking >23 hours most turns anyway, and I still have to go kill them. Certainly, in team games, deadbeating would still fall under point 3 above. But in casual 1v1 or multiplayer non team games, I think I'd generally rather a player just deadbeated out than that he stretch every turn out as long as possible.
8. In casual multiplayer games, a deadbeating player ends up leaving neutral stacks all over the board. I'm not sure this is actually a problem. Neutral stacks aren't really better or worse than stacks held by a player that opts not to move. Sure, a deadbeating player can alter the balance of the game, as players adjacent to him now have a defended border. So it's annoying, and it definitely warrants a low rating and a foe. In tournament games, it definitely shouldn't be allowed (but see point 2 above). In casual games, I'm not convinced it's a major problem.
9. In casual multiplayer games, deadbeating may take cards out of play before a sweep can be used to take them. This isn't really an issue. It takes 3 consecutive rounds to deadbeat, so it's not like a player can use this as a strategy when he realizes he's about to be swept. He's also spending 3 rounds not taking cards, so it's even less relevant.

So, boiling this down, it seems like most cases of deadbeating are covered by other rules, or aren't actually issues. Certainly, most of the intentional deadbeating complaints I've seen tend to fall under point 6, and the complaint is really just used as a way to get back at someone you're annoyed at. Tournament directors can apply policies to cover the most important other issues with deadbeating. The remaining problems are team and assassin games, and those are a result of site design (which directly accounts for deadbeating). So if you want to start enforcing intentional deadbeating in casual team and assassin games, I wouldn't object. I think all other cases are either covered by other rules or really shouldn't outlaw deadbeating.

*Pixar* wrote:Game 21431035
Back when I reported him it was his 3rd offense. And clearly admits it in the game chat while he was a mod at the time. So please don’t even try to attempt to tell me he doesn’t do this on purpose lol.

Why did him deadbeating there bother you at all? This is exactly the kind of petty deadbeating complaints I referred to above. I would have thanked him for letting it wrap up in 3 turns rather than stretching it out over a much longer period. If I were in his shoes, after getting reported like that, I would make it a point the next I played you, and was clearly losing, to miss two turns, take the 3rd at >23 hours, and so on for as long as possible.

Doc_Brown wrote:Honest question: What is actually wrong with deadbeating?

There are some obvious cases where it is a problem:

1. When playing against a freemium player, this can slow the game down. However, missing a couple turns, then taking one, then missing a few more would not be deadbeating. In either case, this could be covered under the holding hostage rule anyway, so I don't think this case is relevant.
2. In multiplayer tournament games, losing without taking turns could allow the player (or a clanmate) to gain standing in the tournament as a whole. This is easily solved by introducing a standard default tournament rule that deadbeating in tournaments without a reasonable justification may result in disqualification (at the discretion of the TO).
3. In team games, deadbeating results in territories being taking over by a teammate, which can give a big unfair advantage. This is already banned in all clan wars, and I assume also in tournaments. In casual games, it may be tough to enforce, but this does seem to be one case where deadbeating is actually a problem.
4. In assassin games, deadbeating causes the person targeting you to get reassigned to have to go after your target. This can dramatically impact a game where a player has built up his forces to go after you, only to have the requirements completely change. So it's also a problem here.
5. It can be used for point dumping. Sure, but we already have a rule against point dumping.
6. In speed games it can be really annoying for a player to just drop out and start playing other speed games. But is this really the case? If I'm losing a speed game already and decide to deadbeat, it's over in 3-15 minutes (depending on the round length). If I take my turns though, it forces my opponent to actually come and kill me, which may take much longer (and if I'm frustrated at the game and want to be annoying without breaking any rules, I can stretch my turn out and take it as late as possible, which ensures a much longer game). To me, allowing deadbeating in speed games seems to offer a net benefit!
7. In casual games, it is annoying to wait on a player that is losing anyway that decided to just deadbeat. However, I've played against multiple players (and certain clans seem to make a habit of this) that seem to slow their turns way down when they are losing. So they're taking >23 hours most turns anyway, and I still have to go kill them. Certainly, in team games, deadbeating would still fall under point 3 above. But in casual 1v1 or multiplayer non team games, I think I'd generally rather a player just deadbeated out than that he stretch every turn out as long as possible.
8. In casual multiplayer games, a deadbeating player ends up leaving neutral stacks all over the board. I'm not sure this is actually a problem. Neutral stacks aren't really better or worse than stacks held by a player that opts not to move. Sure, a deadbeating player can alter the balance of the game, as players adjacent to him now have a defended border. So it's annoying, and it definitely warrants a low rating and a foe. In tournament games, it definitely shouldn't be allowed (but see point 2 above). In casual games, I'm not convinced it's a major problem.
9. In casual multiplayer games, deadbeating may take cards out of play before a sweep can be used to take them. This isn't really an issue. It takes 3 consecutive rounds to deadbeat, so it's not like a player can use this as a strategy when he realizes he's about to be swept. He's also spending 3 rounds not taking cards, so it's even less relevant.

So, boiling this down, it seems like most cases of deadbeating are covered by other rules, or aren't actually issues. Certainly, most of the intentional deadbeating complaints I've seen tend to fall under point 6, and the complaint is really just used as a way to get back at someone you're annoyed at. Tournament directors can apply policies to cover the most important other issues with deadbeating. The remaining problems are team and assassin games, and those are a result of site design (which directly accounts for deadbeating). So if you want to start enforcing intentional deadbeating in casual team and assassin games, I wouldn't object. I think all other cases are either covered by other rules or really shouldn't outlaw deadbeating.

Again, better said then I could. Very valid points and articulated very well.

One thing I've never understood playing on the site is why dead beating a loss game is an issue in the right circumstances, referring of course to deadbeating games that fall outside of the rules Doc referenced. Especially when there are rules already in place for certain circumstances, i.e. point dumping. Many a time I've logged in for the sole purpose of taking a turn on a loss game so i could drop and end. Even if no other games were needed to be taken. Which usually just added to my frustration because like I said, game was loss. And of course, I'm pissed I had to do it in order to wrap the game up, especially when the other player didn't care. That of course mostly occurs on speed and casual games, but also in non-casual 1vs1 and team games, especially on ones where resign isn't even an option. It seems dumb really and is looking more like a personal vendetta. Assuming what Donelladan said is accurate, I haven't fact checked so won't state it as fact. Personally, I would like to see the one who made the judgement call and the accuser present themselves formally and allow the accused, hopefully with decorum, reply. This seems an off the cuff reaction and there's missing context and motives for the rest of us in the sidelines. Which overall, doesn't look good for those not involved or privy to it and is bad for the site. Some might call it an overreaction, others might say it justified, but point is, based on posts here already and offsite chatter, you're looking at individuals leaving a site based on what seems to be a petty infraction. A site that is based on community, which is already decreasing, as per the other forum treads.

Again, in redneck terms; seems dumb. If things are good and people can go at each other without genuine harm or mal intent, in order to create some drama, have at er, that's just good business. But again my opinion, think this got out of hand and needs to be rectified. Not my place to do so.

Doc_Brown wrote:

*Pixar* wrote:Game 21431035
Back when I reported him it was his 3rd offense. And clearly admits it in the game chat while he was a mod at the time. So please don’t even try to attempt to tell me he doesn’t do this on purpose lol.

Why did him deadbeating there bother you at all? This is exactly the kind of petty deadbeating complaints I referred to above. I would have thanked him for letting it wrap up in 3 turns rather than stretching it out over a much longer period. If I were in his shoes, after getting reported like that, I would make it a point the next I played you, and was clearly losing, to miss two turns, take the 3rd at >23 hours, and so on for as long as possible.

pixar doesnt care about the deadbeating. he just doesnt like scott.

*Pixar* wrote:Game 21431035

Back when I reported him it was his 3rd offense. And clearly admits it in the game chat while he was a mod at the time. So please don’t even try to attempt to tell me he doesn’t do this on purpose lol. Maybe this time wasn’t on purpose but when you’re on your 4th or 5th offense there’s no excuses.

you're 28 and you send secret PMs to king achilles repeatedly trying to get scott banned.

nobody has even made the above arguments, you're just answering nothing lol?

*Pixar* wrote:And I would love to see one game where I have deadbeated a casual game on purpose while taking other turns during that time coffeeboy

they were speed games. like i said. but intentional deadbeating doesnt differentiate between speed or casual. not sure how many times this needs explaining. probably a few more knowing you and xroads.

IcePack wrote:Greetings

This topic is always an acceptable one to bring up if you are concerned. There are methods for NSS to seek out information if he feels he is unaware of why he's received discipline.

However, spamming every forum area and thread is totally unacceptable and will result in forum vacation. Anyone else who wants to get cute and use up my time will see a similar forum break.

Discourse is accepted and even encouraged, but you can't be an ass about it.
Thanks
IP

This thread is, and should be, about Scott. But I also thought I’d explain myself. And since you made me wait longer than 24 hours, I’m gonna get my money’s worth…

My apologies for my actions the other night. I was rather certain as I was spamming the forums that I’d get what you call a vacation and really didn’t care. I thought what CC was doing was absurd, so I figured I’d be the same. And I’d been drinking. So, there’s that. Not my finest moment.

That being said, the forums are essentially dead, so I don’t think it really mattered much. It’s basically a circle jerk of the same 25 people (and one of them is Pixar, so…) It seems most topics go days without a new post, so I figured I’d give them all a little bump. When’s the last time the International forum got some love?

So, sure, what I did was silly and annoying. It should be noted, however, that when I’ve used appropriate channels like the suggestion forum, I’ve been ignored by whomever can actually fix things (thanks, btw, to those who HAVE chimed in on them but your thoughts, like mine, seem destined to be ignored). One of my suggestions literally has two people with color coded names saying “Let’s do this!” Yet the last comment is from me asking, “what’s the next step?” Posted two months ago and seemingly ignored. So, you have a simple idea, endorsed by two Mods, about accessibility for those with a medical condition, and CC is saying “nah”. Actually, they’re not even saying that. They’re not saying ANYTHING.

However, just after I resorted to “being an ass”, Scott miraculously heard back from CC regarding his banishment. May be a coincidence, but the optics are not good.

So, if you don’t want us “acting like an ass”, don’t make it seem like that’s the best way to get action. That’s what you’re doing; rewarding bad behavior and abusing patience.

Regardless, I will, going forward, play nice when it comes to the forums. Which, more likely than not, will basically involve joining the vast majority of users who largely ignore them. Because, again, they’re essentially dead.

That, mind you, is assuming I actually stick around at all. Which, for reasons both related and unrelated to the other night’s events, I’m seriously questioning. I’ve already deactivated my autopay.

But CC really did Scott dirty. That much is crystal clear. Others have already said it, but I’ll just add this: For a site whose most popular thread seems to be “CC is declining again!”, I do question the wisdom of actions that will chase him off and seemingly several others as well. That is not helping.

Doc_Brown wrote:

*Pixar* wrote:Game 21431035
Back when I reported him it was his 3rd offense. And clearly admits it in the game chat while he was a mod at the time. So please don’t even try to attempt to tell me he doesn’t do this on purpose lol.

Why did him deadbeating there bother you at all? This is exactly the kind of petty deadbeating complaints I referred to above. I would have thanked him for letting it wrap up in 3 turns rather than stretching it out over a much longer period. If I were in his shoes, after getting reported like that, I would make it a point the next I played you, and was clearly losing, to miss two turns, take the 3rd at >23 hours, and so on for as long as possible.

Oh trust me he did in that same game if you looked .

iAmCaffeine wrote:

*Pixar* wrote:Game 21431035

Back when I reported him it was his 3rd offense. And clearly admits it in the game chat while he was a mod at the time. So please don’t even try to attempt to tell me he doesn’t do this on purpose lol. Maybe this time wasn’t on purpose but when you’re on your 4th or 5th offense there’s no excuses.

you're 28 and you send secret PMs to king achilles repeatedly trying to get scott banned.



nobody has even made the above arguments, you're just answering nothing lol?

*Pixar* wrote:And I would love to see one game where I have deadbeated a casual game on purpose while taking other turns during that time coffeeboy

they were speed games. like i said. but intentional deadbeating doesnt differentiate between speed or casual. not sure how many times this needs explaining. probably a few more knowing you and xroads.

Yawn... Bad grammar again, you say secret "PM's", I've sent one LOL. Maybe get your facts straight before you leave CC .

How odd, this was reported before I reported him.
https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... 6#p5234633
Yes it's an event but deadbeating is deadbeating right??? Man what a snitch... Is the Awol thinking

Don't understand you guys are arguing a point that has been a site rule since the beginning, not to mention has been punished 5+ times for doing it. Wouldn't the simple fix be to take your damn casual turns or not to play speed games if you can't commit to them fully unless you are winning? If you can't do that maybe you shouldn't be on the site regardless. Enjoy being eskimo brothers together.

how dense are you tho?

the point isn't that scott has been punished for intentional deadbeating now or in the past. it's the fact he's punished, while other people are allowed to do it with zero punishment.

consistency is the issue.

iAmCaffeine wrote:how dense are you tho?

the point isn't that scott has been punished for intentional deadbeating now or in the past. it's the fact he's punished, while other people are allowed to do it with zero punishment.

consistency is the issue.

Weird because most reports I've seen that's not this "PM'ing KA" have been pretty consistent. NSS must be snitching on the side and not posting in public

it's scary you have a child.

And why is IcePack here taking bullets when it's apparently fcuking KA who's behind this?