freestyle - turn missing solution

firth4eva · Post by **firth4eva** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:33 pm

i play freestyle to do it fast . if i am online at a certain time i am guaranteed a go in all of my freestyle games. thats why i like it.

johhny-turbo · Post by **johhny-turbo** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:55 pm

misterman10 wrote:
DiM wrote:
misterman10 wrote:This is ridiculous, if you don't like this hole in the system then dont play freestyle
smart remark mate.

why not improve the freestyle? why leave it as it is?

as treefiddy said above if this suggestion is implemented the fun of freestyle still remains.

you still can take your turns at the same time as your opponent but the bug is removed.
ya, but it is actually just like sequential then. I have seen too many people complain about the freestyle bug in 1v1's when all they have to do is play sequential. I know that you want to keep the simultaneous play in freestyle, and in that case I suggest you find a friend on CC, or some trustworthy people to play with

Because sequential 1v1 plays different from freestyle 1v1?

Twill · Post by **Twill** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:11 am

FYI, this is being discussed as well by the powers that be, and they seem pretty committed to finding a solution...they are reading these threads, just discussing in private.

I'm just curious though, if the problem only arises (correct me if I'm wrong here, I've never had this happen to me) when player A finishes the turn (and thus can't start the next round) so that Player B can abuse the turn counter....why can't the "no back to back turns" timer be set to "no back to back for 12 hours" timer so that you will always have a minimum of 12 hours to take your turn, even if the other person is waiting till hour 23:55?

then it would be more freestyle-ish than each player gets 24 hours, because you could end up with some pretty weird staggered turns that way, no?

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:23 pm

Twill wrote:FYI, this is being discussed as well by the powers that be, and they seem pretty committed to finding a solution...they are reading these threads, just discussing in private.

I'm just curious though, if the problem only arises (correct me if I'm wrong here, I've never had this happen to me) when player A finishes the turn (and thus can't start the next round) so that Player B can abuse the turn counter....why can't the "no back to back turns" timer be set to "no back to back for 12 hours" timer so that you will always have a minimum of 12 hours to take your turn, even if the other person is waiting till hour 23:55?

then it would be more freestyle-ish than each player gets 24 hours, because you could end up with some pretty weird staggered turns that way, no?

this solution could also bring abuse. it's rather easy to find the aproximate times when a person is online. so if i can start the turn even if i ended the last after 12 hours, then i just make sure those 12 hours pass when you aren't online. this way when you come online i have already taken 2 turns

Twill · Post by **Twill** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:46 pm

but those 12 hours are my own responsibility - they are 12 hours from when *I* end the turn so it would look like this:

Turn 1
A takes turn hour 1
B takes turn hour 23:55

Turn 2
A can take turn hour 24:01 through hour 47:59
B can take turn hour 36 through hour 47:59

So this would stop player B getting screwed by player A because even if player A takes turn 2 at hour 47:59 B (who wouldnt be able to move under the existing system) could still have moved during.....oh wait, I see what you are saying

If B takes their turn right when I'm going to bed, and I happen to sleep/work for 12 hours, then they get that double 12 hour turn...

damnit I hate it when you're right DiM

Granted it would be a much more difficult system to abuse (because you have to work out the sleeping/working habbits of your opponent and at least then they dont get force screwed with nothing they can do about it) but it does still leave that gap open...

Still not sure about that rolling 24 hours that you suggested though, it does seem a bit too much like a non-asynchronous sequential game...and while I cant figure it out, I just feel like there would be something wierd going on with staggered start times for each person which could be abused (I'm not very good at working abuse systems out as you can tell

)

AK_iceman · Post by **AK_iceman** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:37 pm

I don't really like DiM's idea for a freestyle solution. Freestyle is awesome because you're guaranteed a turn every day in each of your games. With DiM's idea, 1 round could take as long as 48 hours to complete.

I think Twill's idea is more practical. While someone could go to the lengths of playing when their opponent is offline, it still keeps the 24 rounds intact and there is no guarantee of a second turn in a row or a forced missed turn.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:53 pm

Twill wrote:but those 12 hours are my own responsibility - they are 12 hours from when *I* end the turn so it would look like this:

Turn 1
A takes turn hour 1
B takes turn hour 23:55

Turn 2
A can take turn hour 24:01 through hour 47:59
B can take turn hour 36 through hour 47:59

So this would stop player B getting screwed by player A because even if player A takes turn 2 at hour 47:59 B (who wouldnt be able to move under the existing system) could still have moved during.....oh wait, I see what you are saying

If B takes their turn right when I'm going to bed, and I happen to sleep/work for 12 hours, then they get that double 12 hour turn...

damnit I hate it when you're right DiM

Granted it would be a much more difficult system to abuse (because you have to work out the sleeping/working habbits of your opponent and at least then they dont get force screwed with nothing they can do about it) but it does still leave that gap open...

Still not sure about that rolling 24 hours that you suggested though, it does seem a bit too much like a non-asynchronous sequential game...and while I cant figure it out, I just feel like there would be something wierd going on with staggered start times for each person which could be abused (I'm not very good at working abuse systems out as you can tell )

indeed your idea would make it harder to abuse the system and probably most cc players log on a few times a day so they never have a 12 hour offline period but some people (like me) don't have the time to get online so often and that minority can be a victim of abuse.

i really can't see any way my suggestion could lead to abuse.

A starts game at 00:00
B takes his turn at the same time and ends after A.
A starts turn 2 when 14 hours have passed from the allocated 24. when he ends his turn B will automatically get a 24 hours period like in sequential.
B start his second turn when 18 hours passed from his time.
A sees B playing so he quickly plays his turn at the same time with B.

as you can see the fun of freestyle (taking simultaneous turns) is still there but no possibility to force another to miss a turn.

yes as AK said sometimes it might happen that more than 24 hours pass until your turn comes again but i think it's a small price to pay to avoid abuse.

if the 1 turn per day thing is really that important then i guess twill's idea would be perfect.

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:06 pm

I like DiM's idea. If the problem gets solved this way, players will still play once each day. Not because the clock makes them but because they want to.

Right now the freestyle setup allows for abuse. This system eliminates the abuse and will make people play their turns faster and more often since the exploit can no longer be used.

Just like people purposely missing a turn to get bonus armies. If that was taken away, there would be much less purposeful turn skipping.

Without the possibility of "cheating" in freestyle, the players will play faster and most likely play more than once each day.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:14 pm

WidowMakers wrote:I like DiM's idea. If the problem gets solved this way, players will still play once each day. Not because the clock makes them but because they want to.

Right now the freestyle setup allows for abuse. This system eliminates the abuse and will make people play their turns faster and more often since the exploit can no longer be used.

Just like people purposely missing a turn to get bonus armies. If that was taken away, there would be much less purposeful turn skipping.

Without the possibility of "cheating" in freestyle, the players will play faster and most likely play more than once each day.

QFT

MOBAJOBG · Post by **MOBAJOBG** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:07 pm

Twill, I like your idea.

Yes, please.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:19 pm

so any news on this one??

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:16 pm

DiM wrote:so any news on this one??

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:38 pm

Everything is noted. I know lack is looking at the ways to improve freestyle during one of the next couple of updates.

--Andy

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:51 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:Everything is noted. I know lack is looking at the ways to improve freestyle during one of the next couple of updates.

--Andy

ah cool. i didn't see any [pending] or [to-do] or something in the title so i assumed it's being ignored

mach · Post by **mach** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:04 pm

AK_iceman wrote:I don't really like DiM's idea for a freestyle solution. Freestyle is awesome because you're guaranteed a turn every day in each of your games. With DiM's idea, 1 round could take as long as 48 hours to complete.

One round would only take 48 hours if YOU take 24 hours to take your turn also, so if a round is taking 48 hours, it's half your fault.

With DiM's idea, the time from the end of one turn to the beginning of your next turn is at most 24 hours, which is still 1 turn a day.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:12 pm

mach wrote:
AK_iceman wrote:I don't really like DiM's idea for a freestyle solution. Freestyle is awesome because you're guaranteed a turn every day in each of your games. With DiM's idea, 1 round could take as long as 48 hours to complete.
One round would only take 48 hours if YOU take 24 hours to take your turn also, so if a round is taking 48 hours, it's half your fault.

With DiM's idea, the time from the end of one turn to the beginning of your next turn is at most 24 hours, which is still 1 turn a day.

true but it really doesn't matter if my idea is the one chosen twill's idea will also stop (or at least reduce a lot) the freestyle abuse. and that's the most important thing.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:55 am

im palying a few 1 v1 to see what happens and im sorry to say there is no loop hole!!!!

Just take your turn and nobody will force you to miss it!! It all stems from the fact that you are waiting for the other player to take his turn, so dont wait just take your turn!!

jiminski · Post by **jiminski** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:50 am

hulmey wrote:im palying a few 1 v1 to see what happens and im sorry to say there is no loop hole!!!!

Just take your turn and nobody will force you to miss it!! It all stems from the fact that you are waiting for the other player to take his turn, so dont wait just take your turn!!

You can't take your turn first if you were last to finish in the previous round. this is the whole basis of the loophole.

I think that this could be a good solution though DiM... with a little fine tuning.

freestyle - turn missing solution

Good idea?