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It's hard to truly say given the widely varying accounts of what occurred at his home. Much of the critique I've read in this thread hinges on whether or not Dr. Gates showed his ID to the police officer. Dr. Gates claims he did show his ID. Since the charges against him were dropped, I'm inclined to believe at least that fact.Woodruff wrote:Racism aside, do you find Dr. Gates actions in this situation reasonable?
If he had reacted like a normal person and cooperated, it would all be fine. But the second he starts screaming that this only happens because he's black, he becomes racist. Once you focus on RACE, instead of ACTIONS....you are racist.squishyg wrote:I've read several comments blaming Dr. Gates for his neighbor not recognizing him. How is that Dr. Gates' fault? I've had the pleasure of meeting Dr. Gates and am truly surprised and saddened by the situation. I fail to see what Dr. Gates did that would make anyone accuse him of racism...
Since I first brought up the neighbor bit, the point is that most people make an attempt to get to know their neighbors. If you have lived somewhere for several years and don't know your neighbor, then it is a bit odd. (unless you happen to live in souther Californiasquishyg wrote:I've read several comments blaming Dr. Gates for his neighbor not recognizing him. How is that Dr. Gates' fault? I've had the pleasure of meeting Dr. Gates and am truly surprised and saddened by the situation. I fail to see what Dr. Gates did that would make anyone accuse him of racism...
).Well, a neighbor saw two men at the door trying to force it open. To him it looked like breaking and entering (we have no legitimate proof other than what the neighbor might say as to whether the neighbor was able to see his face or not since they were focusing on the door they were probably facing away from him) the neighbor acting appropriately to what looked like a crime in progress called the police (you can say that he could have stopped the car and inquired further to get a real glimpse of the situation but if you mistook these people for criminals, quite possibly dangerous criminals would you?) The police showed up and to the best of what I can tell handled the situation according to procedure or by the books and he became enraged and started crying racism. The officers then arrested him based on his refusal to cooperate and possible other charges that I am not aware of but regardless all the charges were dropped.squishyg wrote:I've read several comments blaming Dr. Gates for his neighbor not recognizing him. How is that Dr. Gates' fault? I've had the pleasure of meeting Dr. Gates and am truly surprised and saddened by the situation. I fail to see what Dr. Gates did that would make anyone accuse him of racism...
Maxleod wrote:Not strike, he's the only one with a functioning brain.
My Obama is president...mr Gates is the guy showing his IDPLAYER57832 wrote:Since I first brought up the neighbor bit, the point is that most people make an attempt to get to know their neighbors. If you have lived somewhere for several years and don't know your neighbor, then it is a bit odd. (unless you happen to live in souther Californiasquishyg wrote:I've read several comments blaming Dr. Gates for his neighbor not recognizing him. How is that Dr. Gates' fault? I've had the pleasure of meeting Dr. Gates and am truly surprised and saddened by the situation. I fail to see what Dr. Gates did that would make anyone accuse him of racism...
As for Mr Gates being the racist. It all depends.. and I think that is the most prevelent comment, that we just don't really know the facts. But racism goes two ways. One is to consider certain people beneath one. The other is to think that everyone else of a certain race is "out to get you". Too many blacks seem to think that because their ancestors experiences racism or they have at the hands of some whites, that somehow gives them the right to decide every white they meet is racist. Sorry, but that is just as bad as those whites who think black=criminal, etc.
Now, in Mr Obama's account, he was arrested after showing his ID. In the above, they said he refused to show his ID. Refusing to show his ID would indeed be grounds for charges. It does not matter who you are, if a police officer asks to see your ID, (or your name, etc.) you are supposed to comply. If Obama's idea is correct, though, then one does wonder why the guy was arrested, unless maybe he had been an absoute a-hold up until that point? So again, we are back to "none of us here know the real story".
I suspect at least part of the problem, was that he was insulted that these officers didn't recognize him. I say that having grown up near southern California and having met more than one star with that attitude. (of all colors).
Yes, criticizing grammar is so much more effective than considering the comments.bedub1 wrote:My Obama is president...mr Gates is the guy showing his IDPLAYER57832 wrote:Since I first brought up the neighbor bit, the point is that most people make an attempt to get to know their neighbors. If you have lived somewhere for several years and don't know your neighbor, then it is a bit odd. (unless you happen to live in souther Californiasquishyg wrote:I've read several comments blaming Dr. Gates for his neighbor not recognizing him. How is that Dr. Gates' fault? I've had the pleasure of meeting Dr. Gates and am truly surprised and saddened by the situation. I fail to see what Dr. Gates did that would make anyone accuse him of racism...
As for Mr Gates being the racist. It all depends.. and I think that is the most prevelent comment, that we just don't really know the facts. But racism goes two ways. One is to consider certain people beneath one. The other is to think that everyone else of a certain race is "out to get you". Too many blacks seem to think that because their ancestors experiences racism or they have at the hands of some whites, that somehow gives them the right to decide every white they meet is racist. Sorry, but that is just as bad as those whites who think black=criminal, etc.
Now, in Mr Obama's account, Gates was arrested after showing his ID. In the above, they said Gates refused to show his ID. Refusing to show his ID would indeed be grounds for charges. It does not matter who you are, if a police officer asks to see your ID, (or your name, etc.) you are supposed to comply. If Obama's idea is correct, though, then one does wonder why Gates was arrested, unless maybe Gates had been an absoute a-hole up until that point? So again, we are back to "none of us here know the real story".
I suspect at least part of the problem, was that Gates was insulted that these officers didn't recognize him. I say that having grown up near southern California and having met more than one star with that attitude. (of all colors)
... And they both make a living from their skin color and (in Gates' case) intellect.spurgistan wrote:Yes, Henry Louis Gates and Al Sharpton are the same, in that one is a respected literary scholar, and they are both black.Nobunaga wrote:... The man's career is based on race. This should surprise nobody. Might as well have been Al Sharpton.
...
I did consider the comment, and for the most part completely agreed with it. The only thing I noticed that was odd was you put in Obama instead of Gates. Otherwise the comment was great. Just another "star" who got freakin' pissed cause he wasn't recognized.PLAYER57832 wrote:Yes, criticizing grammar is so much more effective than considering the comments.bedub1 wrote:My Obama is president...mr Gates is the guy showing his IDPLAYER57832 wrote:Since I first brought up the neighbor bit, the point is that most people make an attempt to get to know their neighbors. If you have lived somewhere for several years and don't know your neighbor, then it is a bit odd. (unless you happen to live in souther Californiasquishyg wrote:I've read several comments blaming Dr. Gates for his neighbor not recognizing him. How is that Dr. Gates' fault? I've had the pleasure of meeting Dr. Gates and am truly surprised and saddened by the situation. I fail to see what Dr. Gates did that would make anyone accuse him of racism...
As for Mr Gates being the racist. It all depends.. and I think that is the most prevelent comment, that we just don't really know the facts. But racism goes two ways. One is to consider certain people beneath one. The other is to think that everyone else of a certain race is "out to get you". Too many blacks seem to think that because their ancestors experiences racism or they have at the hands of some whites, that somehow gives them the right to decide every white they meet is racist. Sorry, but that is just as bad as those whites who think black=criminal, etc.
Now, in Mr Obama's account, he was arrested after showing his ID. In the above, they said he refused to show his ID. Refusing to show his ID would indeed be grounds for charges. It does not matter who you are, if a police officer asks to see your ID, (or your name, etc.) you are supposed to comply. If Obama's idea is correct, though, then one does wonder why the guy was arrested, unless maybe he had been an absoute a-hold up until that point? So again, we are back to "none of us here know the real story".
I suspect at least part of the problem, was that he was insulted that these officers didn't recognize him. I say that having grown up near southern California and having met more than one star with that attitude. (of all colors).
I could have been more clear, but it is understandable if you read the context.
OK, I guess there was reason for the confusion. I should not have been so snide. I mentioned Obama because he spoke of the incident in a speech, that is why I said Obama's version. I have not heard anything from Gates directly. But I will correct it since its possible others might make the same mistake.bedub1 wrote:
I did consider the comment, and for the most part completely agreed with it. The only thing I noticed that was odd was you put in Obama instead of Gates. Otherwise the comment was great. Just another "star" who got freakin' pissed cause he wasn't recognized.
I already said I don't know what happened. Honestly, I would rather think he was a bit of a showboating celebrity than a true racist. (and throwing a tantrum because he was asked for his ID would be " a tantrum" when dealing with police) I have not met Mr Gates, I have seen him on TV, heard him on the radio more than once ... and I have met more than a few celebrities. I also know more than a few white folks who have had similar run-ins, some that ended much worse, with idiot police. Some officers just think that uniform gives them the right to be bullies ... regardless of race.squishyg wrote:Does Dr. Gates have any record of showboating or acting like a "star" prior to this incident? Why jump to the conclusion that he was mad that he was not given celebrity status? I doubt he entered academia for the glamour. I also sincerely doubt he hates white people given that he chooses to teach at Harvard.
With that I fully agree. I guess my main objection is that he instantly lept to "its race" instead of "police are just jerks at times". The first gets press, the second does not.squishyg wrote:The more I learn about the incident the more I think that the truth, like so many things that happen on this site and off it, is somewhere in the middle. I think it's entirely possible that Dr. Gates was humiliated by a police officer who overstepped his bounds and that Dr. Gates is making a big stink about it partly because he thinks it's the right thing to do and partly because he can't believe it happened to him. I don't think the officer is evil, but it seems like he didn't handle the situation as well as he could have. Both men appear to be playing the "I'm right" game, when it would be a lot healthier for everyone if they found a way to learn and grow and move on from this.
Sounds like something we could all use a bit of right now.
As far as I know, press conferences are press conferences, not "a press conference on health care." Reporters can ask whatever they want to ask there.Night Strike wrote:First off, at the press conference on health care, why was this question even asked, and answered? Secondly, why on earth did Obama state that he didn't have all the facts about the situation but still proceed to call the actions "stupid"? Seems like he's much more eager to jump in when there are cries of racism in a local community than when there are cries of election fraud and crackdowns of protesters in Iran.
That is a topic onto itself. Yes, black people are treated differently. I can give you plenty of examples myself, but that is not the point. Racists are real. Jerks are real. They cause real harm. The question is not whether racism exists in society or even how pervasive it is. The thing is that with very few exceptions, the only one who really and truly decides how you are treated is you. The bottom line is that if you stand with a chip on your shoulder, there are plenty of people who will oblige and knock it off. The thing is to not have that chip at all. A lot of blacks want to keep that chip. They want to harbor resentment no matter how many changes, no matter how many consessions, and at some point.. they actually wind up creating the very thing they claimed to want to prevent .. racism.squishyg wrote:I just read these essays on the Times website. The writers put my thoughts into words more eloquently than I could hope to do, so I humbly encourage you to read them.
I believe, regretfully, that black people are treated differently than white people. I've seen it, experienced it, and work to fight it. I think people should get outraged when outrageous things happen to them.
It wasn't a press conference on health care. It was a speech and he took questions.Night Strike wrote:First off, at the press conference on health care, why was this question even asked, and answered? Secondly, why on earth did Obama state that he didn't have all the facts about the situation but still proceed to call the actions "stupid"? Seems like he's much more eager to jump in when there are cries of racism in a local community than when there are cries of election fraud and crackdowns of protesters in Iran.
Everyone is angry. That does not give you the right to treat others badly. It does not give you the right to be angry at any group of people.squishyg wrote:I see it differently. I think a lot of black people are angry. That anger manifests itself in ways that are sometimes productive and sometimes less so.
Well said!PLAYER57832 wrote:The thing is that with very few exceptions, the only one who really and truly decides how you are treated is you. The bottom line is that if you stand with a chip on your shoulder, there are plenty of people who will oblige and knock it off. The thing is to not have that chip at all. A lot of blacks want to keep that chip. They want to harbor resentment no matter how many changes, no matter how many concessions, and at some point.. they actually wind up creating the very thing they claimed to want to prevent .. racism.
Spazz Arcane wrote:If birds could swim and fish could fly I would awaken in the morning to the sturgeons cry. If fish could fly and birds could swim I'd still use worms to fish for them.
saxitoxin wrote:I'm on Team GabonX
Spoken like a true Western Pennsylvanianbedub1 wrote:Well said!PLAYER57832 wrote:The thing is that with very few exceptions, the only one who really and truly decides how you are treated is you. The bottom line is that if you stand with a chip on your shoulder, there are plenty of people who will oblige and knock it off. The thing is to not have that chip at all. A lot of blacks want to keep that chip. They want to harbor resentment no matter how many changes, no matter how many concessions, and at some point.. they actually wind up creating the very thing they claimed to want to prevent .. racism.
Spazz Arcane wrote:If birds could swim and fish could fly I would awaken in the morning to the sturgeons cry. If fish could fly and birds could swim I'd still use worms to fish for them.
saxitoxin wrote:I'm on Team GabonX
tru datPLAYER57832 wrote:Everyone is angry. That does not give you the right to treat others badly. It does not give you the right to be angry at any group of people.squishyg wrote:I see it differently. I think a lot of black people are angry. That anger manifests itself in ways that are sometimes productive and sometimes less so.
For a black person to expect that because I am white, I will treat them poorly is no less racist than if I think that a black person will not treat me well because they are black. The point is not that life is perfect. The point is that you cannot control other people. You control yourself. And there is one truth. The biggest factor, by a long stretch, affecting how people treat you is your attitude. It is not the color of your skin, the clothes you wear or your weight. All of those things matter, but look around. You will find successful, happy people matching all of those descriptions. The "secret" is they believe in themselves.
Mr Gates might have just had a bad moment/ a bad day. Or, it could be that, educated as he is, he has still not learned that fundamental lesson.
i think i herd the officer say just that in an interview... or maybe someone else... but its tru... Economy in a tailspin, wars raging overseas, massive government takeover of individual choice, bailouts on the taxpayer dime, "climate change", etc.. etc... and the president is talking about some local incident completely irrelevant.GabonX wrote:I think Bill Cosby had a pretty level headed response to the situation, but I think it's ridiculous that this made national news.
It was a level headed response. I think it would be good for both men to get together and talk.GabonX wrote:I think Bill Cosby had a pretty level headed response to the situation, but I think it's ridiculous that this made national news.
