Conquer Club

edocsil wrote:

pmchugh wrote:Sooooooooooooooo MUCH scumminess. (S)he is new, so you are voting him? How is that gonna help anything? At least give them a chance to put some thoughts about the game before breaking their hymen just cause you can.

edocsil wrote:

redhedge47 wrote:im sorry everbody this is my first game I have ever played I didnt know that I broke some unspoken rule about rushing dont hang me bros

also when i said top three I was just asking for a general idea of who has the most votes

Yeah, that's likely the biggest booby trap in the game. Lynches can't be rushed, especially day one. Most of this day is waiting for someone to rush (you in this case) and then summarily hang them. if you haven't got a good claim you are pretty likely to be hung. vote hedge. The misstep is worth a claim if nothing else.

Imma pick you edoc, you as well as anyone should know that what he has said is not worth a claim because it is not a scum tell, its a noob tell.

unvote vote edoc

He is kinda getting the crash course here. As I have said, I personally feel that it is claim worthy. Perticularly the content changing on the one. I have seen modkills for that, although it is more tipical to have a warning. The WIFOM was pretty bad, and he clearly isn't reading the rules, or other games to see how this stuff works. Lack of input and inititive is usually indicative of scum, especially in rookies. If nothing else I think it is a good place to start for the day.

Lets be honest, the reason why the votes on him built so fast is cause the game was going so slowly that as soon as something came along everyone was happy to throw votes at it. He was actually right on the game moving too slowly.

Secondly, why is it worth a claim if it is not scummy? If it is about teaching him the ropes, a few votes will do. Lack of initiative is a character trait, not a scum tell. How many games have you wrongly lynched a newbie in, do you not learn? I think you aren't that stupid, and you know what you are doing here.

redhedge47 wrote:

edocsil wrote:We aren't looking for groveling, we are looking for a claim.

I want to make sure im not saying the wrong thing in my next post so could you define claim

Verses this.

redhedge47 wrote:

edocsil wrote:We aren't looking for groveling, we are looking for a claim.

At this point in the game thier would be no point in killing me on the terms that I wanted to rush. Apperently noobs mistake wont cut it, If I were the Mafia don't I would make as few posts as posible so I wouldent say somthing stupid that would cause people to suspect me. Their is one players who has been bandwagon jumping and is much more likely to be the Mafia he has changed his vote at four times

Unvote Vote for kageryuu

Chuck quoted it luckily. As you can see the post is totally different. It's bad, anyone whe had read the rules should have know this, and this was done with the intent of changing a post to take back a comment. I don't know if it should be modkilled over, and frankly, I am glad the decision isn't mine to make. However, the people who are on my case should back off, and fast, because if that isn't gross violation of the rules I don't know what is.

PMC, more for you, but I want to post this first.

edocsil wrote:

redhedge47 wrote:

edocsil wrote:We aren't looking for groveling, we are looking for a claim.

I want to make sure im not saying the wrong thing in my next post so could you define claim

Verses this.

redhedge47 wrote:

edocsil wrote:We aren't looking for groveling, we are looking for a claim.

At this point in the game thier would be no point in killing me on the terms that I wanted to rush. Apperently noobs mistake wont cut it, If I were the Mafia don't I would make as few posts as posible so I wouldent say somthing stupid that would cause people to suspect me. Their is one players who has been bandwagon jumping and is much more likely to be the Mafia he has changed his vote at four times

Unvote Vote for kageryuu

Chuck quoted it luckily. As you can see the post is totally different. It's bad, anyone whe had read the rules should have know this, and this was done with the intent of changing a post to take back a comment. I don't know if it should be modkilled over, and frankly, I am glad the decision isn't mine to make. However, the people who are on my case should back off, and fast, because if that isn't gross violation of the rules I don't know what is.

PMC, more for you, but I want to post this first.

The post is confirmed altered with these two quotes. However, he is being let off this one time, but just barely. I think everyone can agree that what he changed it from isn't all that bad (He was asking what he'd have to do so he wouldn't be modkilled in quoting a pm I believe). Nearly getting modkilled in the process of changing it. But since both pieces of info are there and it was nothing game changing that he edited, it will be only noted for now. Further action will be taken if this happens again though.

Form PMC. From other games.

NCIS, I was right. Lack of participation and lack of comprehension. The player flipped scum.

edocsil wrote:If we don't get anything going here I am going to advocate lynch the rookies. I should have some time to read tonight to see if I can find something better, but I will place a vote one way or another tonight.

edocsil wrote:Happy has hardly spoken except to apologize for his ignorance and has done zero to contribute. Why would you rather keep him? What value to you see him adding to the game?

I think you more dislike what I am doing on a personal level, you may find it unfair, heavy handed, or arrogant. All of those are valid opinions, but the action isn't scummy. Either he has a rock solid claim and we can leave him alone and not worry about him, or we get to endgame and we will have a player who hasn't spoken. Those are the two paths I see, and I do not want to leave an opening at LYLO for the scum to try to force an easy lynch.

In that game I was a Cult Leader. I then nailed the next scum the day after. I was the only player to make a case against a scum and see them lynched, and I did it twice in a row. No, I wasn't town there, but my scumhunting was spot on. Lynching people who are not participating or applying themselves is a good way to keep the discussion moving, and at a META level ensures all players contribute and are forced to understand the game and the process.

The last 15 pages of pokemon are all a prime example of what happens when apathy is allowed.

As to your Secondly comment, the edit was scummy, he changed the post's intent. Do you think that a deliberate switch like that is not scummy?

excuse me but that game is far from over! So stop talking about it please.

unvote no need to lynch the newbie....we were all new once...

please please please read those links posted as quickly as you can though...
as for up to 8 scum no shot....I wouldnt not be surprised if there is scum and a cult...ie covenant and flood and potentially forerunners...thought that last bit not so likely. There will definitely be some vigs/sk type roles in here...think master chief and the arbiter. I actually expect madness on the first few nights. :/

Agreed, let's take a step back and not just lynch the new guy for making a mistake new guys tend to make.

In a 25 player game we are not trying to lynch a newbiw so much as we need a claim.

He needs to claim. While he is new he could just as easily be mafia regardless of his newbiness. The first day is WIFOM joke ass day and people have gotten lynched for far less.

Iron Butterfly wrote:In a 25 player game we are not trying to lynch a newbiw so much as we need a claim.

He needs to claim. While he is new he could just as easily be mafia regardless of his newbiness. The first day is WIFOM joke ass day and people have gotten lynched for far less.

I agree. If he gives a suitable claim then I would happily unvote him. Until then though my vote will stay.

I'm still here.
Damn, Don't have time to explain what I've been doing.
you can have a look at this (http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 64&start=0) while you wait for me to do so (or you decide to lynch me).

unvote, my vote was originally on for a pretty weak reason as well as inactivity. I'm still waiting for some substance from him but he's posted.

I'm not quite sure how I feel about the redhedge wagon. Editing of posts is definitly more of a noob tell rather than a scum tell imo. That said for day one it is as good a case as any (if not better) and works on policy.

I'm going to have a re-read focusing on the people who jumped on the wagon to see if anything sticks out. Failing that I support voting / getting hedge to claim simply because the only other ideas I can put forward at the moment.are all on inavtoves... And we don't really have the time to push that effectively.

Ebwop: inactives.

Iron Butterfly wrote:In a 25 player game we are not trying to lynch a newbiw so much as we need a claim.

He needs to claim. While he is new he could just as easily be mafia regardless of his newbiness. The first day is WIFOM joke ass day and people have gotten lynched for far less.

+1

in my very first game i was a mafia so i got away with some scumtells because i invoked being a noob.
IB should know cause he was in the game with me. he even bought my fakeclaim

edocsil wrote:Form PMC. From other games.

NCIS, I was right. Lack of participation and lack of comprehension. The player flipped scum.

edocsil wrote:If we don't get anything going here I am going to advocate lynch the rookies. I should have some time to read tonight to see if I can find something better, but I will place a vote one way or another tonight.

He does not have a lack of participation, compared to a lot of people in this game. Lack of comprehension is not a scum tell, if you want me to go dig up every game where ani or NES or clever were lynched as town for lack of comprehension then I can.

edocsil wrote:Happy has hardly spoken except to apologize for his ignorance and has done zero to contribute. Why would you rather keep him? What value to you see him adding to the game?

I think you more dislike what I am doing on a personal level, you may find it unfair, heavy handed, or arrogant. All of those are valid opinions, but the action isn't scummy. Either he has a rock solid claim and we can leave him alone and not worry about him, or we get to endgame and we will have a player who hasn't spoken. Those are the two paths I see, and I do not want to leave an opening at LYLO for the scum to try to force an easy lynch.

In that game I was a Cult Leader. I then nailed the next scum the day after. I was the only player to make a case against a scum and see them lynched, and I did it twice in a row. No, I wasn't town there, but my scumhunting was spot on. Lynching people who are not participating or applying themselves is a good way to keep the discussion moving, and at a META level ensures all players contribute and are forced to understand the game and the process.

Your quote here does not apply to this game. If he continues to make mistakes for the rest of the day then fair enough, but not right now.

As to your Secondly comment, the edit was scummy, he changed the post's intent. Do you think that a deliberate switch like that is not scummy?

Of the people who edit posts, they are always noobs. I have never seen anyone caught changing a post who was experienced and doing it for scummy reasons. As for it being a noob scum tell, as opposed to a noob town tell I don't really see why given that his original post was not incriminating in any way.

My first game I did an edit.

I will however repeat this. I am suspicious of those saying NOT to lynch the newbies. We are not trying to lynch the newbies. With a 25 man game we need claims. They have just as good a chance to be mafia, cult third party or whatever as anyone else.

This game has a harsh learning curve at times. Consider it the school of hard knocks. Learn from your mistakes.

We need claims. They made the mistakes. If their claims are good then they wont be lynched.

"Please don't lynch the newb" Is a crappy defense, excuses bad play but most importantly misrepresents the initial goals in a game this size.

Confirm, just returned from holiday so I haven't read thread.

Well vote jonty125 For super scummarining and managing not to get metioned once.

Now serious, unvote, I don't think giving the redhedge the noob card is a good idea, because by giving him this chance this card is getting to used several times in this game, which could be dangerous IF he is scum. So vote redhedge for editing and rushing a D1 lynch.

FYI: We have about 4 days to deadline.

im for hearing a claim from redhedge. but we should not rush into any lynches. especially against a new player.

Iron Butterfly wrote:My first game I did an edit.

I will however repeat this. I am suspicious of those saying NOT to lynch the newbies. We are not trying to lynch the newbies. With a 25 man game we need claims. They have just as good a chance to be mafia, cult third party or whatever as anyone else.

This game has a harsh learning curve at times. Consider it the school of hard knocks. Learn from your mistakes.

We need claims. They made the mistakes. If their claims are good then they wont be lynched.

"Please don't lynch the newb" Is a crappy defense, excuses bad play but most importantly misrepresents the initial goals in a game this size.

I hate this attitude with a passion. People don't know how to scum hunt, so they just vote randomly on one guy till he claims and then go on to the next person. We may as well mass claim if that is your attitude. How about trying to play the game?

pmchugh wrote:

Iron Butterfly wrote:My first game I did an edit.

I will however repeat this. I am suspicious of those saying NOT to lynch the newbies. We are not trying to lynch the newbies. With a 25 man game we need claims. They have just as good a chance to be mafia, cult third party or whatever as anyone else.

This game has a harsh learning curve at times. Consider it the school of hard knocks. Learn from your mistakes.

We need claims. They made the mistakes. If their claims are good then they wont be lynched.

"Please don't lynch the newb" Is a crappy defense, excuses bad play but most importantly misrepresents the initial goals in a game this size.

I hate this attitude with a passion. People don't know how to scum hunt, so they just vote randomly on one guy till he claims and then go on to the next person. We may as well mass claim if that is your attitude. How about trying to play the game?

Your idea sucks too. There isn't any scum hunting to be done today. Never going to peg a half good mafia player D1 besides blind luck.

edocsil wrote:

pmchugh wrote:

Iron Butterfly wrote:My first game I did an edit.

I will however repeat this. I am suspicious of those saying NOT to lynch the newbies. We are not trying to lynch the newbies. With a 25 man game we need claims. They have just as good a chance to be mafia, cult third party or whatever as anyone else.

This game has a harsh learning curve at times. Consider it the school of hard knocks. Learn from your mistakes.

We need claims. They made the mistakes. If their claims are good then they wont be lynched.

"Please don't lynch the newb" Is a crappy defense, excuses bad play but most importantly misrepresents the initial goals in a game this size.

I hate this attitude with a passion. People don't know how to scum hunt, so they just vote randomly on one guy till he claims and then go on to the next person. We may as well mass claim if that is your attitude. How about trying to play the game?

Your idea sucks too. There isn't any scum hunting to be done today. Never going to peg a half good mafia player D1 besides blind luck.

OK then, scum hunting is a bad idea. unvote vote no lynch

pmchugh wrote:

Iron Butterfly wrote:My first game I did an edit.

I will however repeat this. I am suspicious of those saying NOT to lynch the newbies. We are not trying to lynch the newbies. With a 25 man game we need claims. They have just as good a chance to be mafia, cult third party or whatever as anyone else.

This game has a harsh learning curve at times. Consider it the school of hard knocks. Learn from your mistakes.

We need claims. They made the mistakes. If their claims are good then they wont be lynched.

"Please don't lynch the newb" Is a crappy defense, excuses bad play but most importantly misrepresents the initial goals in a game this size.

I hate this attitude with a passion. People don't know how to scum hunt, so they just vote randomly on one guy till he claims and then go on to the next person. We may as well mass claim if that is your attitude. How about trying to play the game?

Spare us the lectures. In a game of 25 it is almost impossible for everyone to agree on what is what for a variety. On day one no one can really prove anything so its all conjecture. It is not until later in the game by vote patterns, night actions, dialogue and contradictions caught or discovered that scum start making themselves clear.

But hey who am I. Your the pro not me.

I have caught people on day 1, I have seen many other people get caught on day 1. Right now it may be hard because everyone is so defeatist and mafia like to lurk with a passion. But how do you get to know who is trying to catch scum and who isn't? How do you get the voting patterns without reasonable votes? If people think it is a great idea to just BW people to claim point all the time, then vote patterns mean f*ck all.

I would call your play scummy, because it helps mafia to avoid suspicion if only you were not serious.

Iron Butterfly wrote: On day one no one can really prove anything so its all conjecture.

It is like that every day, or it should be. Otherwise there would not be much of a game.

Don't get me wrong I have no problem with wagons on inactives, or people who aren't doing much. It is the whole issue of forcing people to claim as soon as anyone casts suspicion on a player. If you can fake claim well then this game is easy as mafia.

pmchugh wrote:I have caught people on day 1, I have seen many other people get caught on day 1. Right now it may be hard because everyone is so defeatist and mafia like to lurk with a passion. But how do you get to know who is trying to catch scum and who isn't? How do you get the voting patterns without reasonable votes? If people think it is a great idea to just BW people to claim point all the time, then vote patterns mean f*ck all.

I would call your play scummy, because it helps mafia to avoid suspicion if only you were not serious.

Iron Butterfly wrote: On day one no one can really prove anything so its all conjecture.

It is like that every day, or it should be. Otherwise there would not be much of a game.

Don't get me wrong I have no problem with wagons on inactives, or people who aren't doing much. It is the whole issue of forcing people to claim as soon as anyone casts suspicion on a player. If you can fake claim well then this game is easy as mafia.

No one is defeatist. You just seem to think everyone should play as you. You call me scummy but your the one who votes no lynch, which serves no one. if your gonna scum hunt then teach us rookies how to do it and cut the "holier then though" act.

Iron Butterfly wrote:

pmchugh wrote:I have caught people on day 1, I have seen many other people get caught on day 1. Right now it may be hard because everyone is so defeatist and mafia like to lurk with a passion. But how do you get to know who is trying to catch scum and who isn't? How do you get the voting patterns without reasonable votes? If people think it is a great idea to just BW people to claim point all the time, then vote patterns mean f*ck all.

I would call your play scummy, because it helps mafia to avoid suspicion if only you were not serious.

Iron Butterfly wrote: On day one no one can really prove anything so its all conjecture.

It is like that every day, or it should be. Otherwise there would not be much of a game.

Don't get me wrong I have no problem with wagons on inactives, or people who aren't doing much. It is the whole issue of forcing people to claim as soon as anyone casts suspicion on a player. If you can fake claim well then this game is easy as mafia.

No one is defeatist. You just seem to think everyone should play as you. You call me scummy but your the one who votes no lynch, which serves no one. if your gonna scum hunt then teach us rookies how to do it and cut the "holier then though" act.

I'm not saying I am better than you, or even a good player given how little I contribute to games I am in at the moment (and I get into far too many pointless arguments like this that clog threads). I am just saying that the way you are playing is helping mafia to slide by (if you happen to be town). No lynch is fine by me, we at least don't out a few power roles, let mafia slide by on a fake claim and lynch a VT.