[Official] D&D Mafia ~ Endgame

[DoomYoshi]

I am relatively silent. Im going to be honest and say that I have just been trying to figure out whose vsing who. Yes I have not been making many posts. I have said time and time again that I loathe day 1. I rarely ever post day 1. It goes with my past, current, and as far as I can tell, future "play style". I dont mean to scummarine, it just seems to happen. Add on the fact I just started college this week and Ive been packing the week prior to that, and I am a busy person. Ill try to post more tomorrow, but for now Im tired.

People usually hate Day 1 because of its jokevote-ness and lack of substance. ut we do have lots of it this time, so this game would be a great time to break that cycle of yours (and it does, for now, appear that you are, so that's good).

Its not that, its usually the fact that even with day 1 cases which are good, I find it hard to vote people without evidence. Its a habit I have that I just cant seem to break. It seems so weird, unless there is a slip up that I see scummy as hell, to vote them. However, I did read 2 pages worth of posts after a day at school, and so I fell behind. After rereading, I have decided that jonty trying to paint a cult in a good light is quite odd, and even though he was just throwing it out there as a suggestion, I cant see how a recruiter is good, must less when the specific word cult was used to TFO (or at least thats what he said). With this, I feel alright pinning another vote up. Vote Jonty

Well, I can't exactly see why a mod would tell me that their is a group of Masons in the game (Although Cult is odd too, but less odder then masons).

A mod would tell you there is a group of masons in the game if you were a mason.

The existence of a cult doesn't preclude the existence of other recruiters. Clue, anyone? How about Pokemon Chap. 1? HP Lovecraft's birthday is today.

[TheForgivenOne]

I am relatively silent. Im going to be honest and say that I have just been trying to figure out whose vsing who. Yes I have not been making many posts. I have said time and time again that I loathe day 1. I rarely ever post day 1. It goes with my past, current, and as far as I can tell, future "play style". I dont mean to scummarine, it just seems to happen. Add on the fact I just started college this week and Ive been packing the week prior to that, and I am a busy person. Ill try to post more tomorrow, but for now Im tired.

People usually hate Day 1 because of its jokevote-ness and lack of substance. ut we do have lots of it this time, so this game would be a great time to break that cycle of yours (and it does, for now, appear that you are, so that's good).

Its not that, its usually the fact that even with day 1 cases which are good, I find it hard to vote people without evidence. Its a habit I have that I just cant seem to break. It seems so weird, unless there is a slip up that I see scummy as hell, to vote them. However, I did read 2 pages worth of posts after a day at school, and so I fell behind. After rereading, I have decided that jonty trying to paint a cult in a good light is quite odd, and even though he was just throwing it out there as a suggestion, I cant see how a recruiter is good, must less when the specific word cult was used to TFO (or at least thats what he said). With this, I feel alright pinning another vote up. Vote Jonty

Well, I can't exactly see why a mod would tell me that their is a group of Masons in the game (Although Cult is odd too, but less odder then masons).

A mod would tell you there is a group of masons in the game if you were a mason.

The existence of a cult doesn't preclude the existence of other recruiters. Clue, anyone? How about Pokemon Chap. 1? HP Lovecraft's birthday is today.

Oh shuttup.

[new guy1]

I am relatively silent. Im going to be honest and say that I have just been trying to figure out whose vsing who. Yes I have not been making many posts. I have said time and time again that I loathe day 1. I rarely ever post day 1. It goes with my past, current, and as far as I can tell, future "play style". I dont mean to scummarine, it just seems to happen. Add on the fact I just started college this week and Ive been packing the week prior to that, and I am a busy person. Ill try to post more tomorrow, but for now Im tired.

People usually hate Day 1 because of its jokevote-ness and lack of substance. ut we do have lots of it this time, so this game would be a great time to break that cycle of yours (and it does, for now, appear that you are, so that's good).

Its not that, its usually the fact that even with day 1 cases which are good, I find it hard to vote people without evidence. Its a habit I have that I just cant seem to break. It seems so weird, unless there is a slip up that I see scummy as hell, to vote them. However, I did read 2 pages worth of posts after a day at school, and so I fell behind. After rereading, I have decided that jonty trying to paint a cult in a good light is quite odd, and even though he was just throwing it out there as a suggestion, I cant see how a recruiter is good, must less when the specific word cult was used to TFO (or at least thats what he said). With this, I feel alright pinning another vote up. Vote Jonty

Well, I can't exactly see why a mod would tell me that their is a group of Masons in the game (Although Cult is odd too, but less odder then masons).

A mod would tell you there is a group of masons in the game if you were a mason.

The existence of a cult doesn't preclude the existence of other recruiters. Clue, anyone? How about Pokemon Chap. 1? HP Lovecraft's birthday is today.

Happy birthday, that game was awesome! I laughed way too hard at the mason comment and do you mean that there could be both a recruiter and cult? If so, thats good thinking, but I dont think theres two separate groups recruiting. Well actually, it might could be possible because each group may have their separate recruitment, but nevermind, Im not gonna go into that cause Im pretty sure you see the rest of my train of thought, ahha.

[edocsil]

I am Back! Good discussion all, and keep it up. I will get a VC out tomorrow and an update on the deadline.

[aage]

[*]Good, regardless of L/N/C seems to be our closest definition of what is considered Town; not Lawful. Evil, by definition, would be (loosely) Anti-Town, though I don't think this is particularly important.[/list]

Is this based on a quote that edoc made out of the thread before the game was in sign ups and before it was balanced up to 19 players? Or is there some other piece of evidence.

Evil =/= anti-town.

Yes, you're lawful good aligned, I'm very happy for you, but if you want to win with the majority of the players who are neutral good I suggest you stop advocating for letting scum live. If not I suggest we, all pretending to be neutral good players since those are town, lynch you today for not subjecting to our democracy.

Neutral good is the majority, ergo they are town. I've been saying this for the last two or three pages, is nobody reading this?

[new guy1]

[*]Good, regardless of L/N/C seems to be our closest definition of what is considered Town; not Lawful. Evil, by definition, would be (loosely) Anti-Town, though I don't think this is particularly important.[/list]

Is this based on a quote that edoc made out of the thread before the game was in sign ups and before it was balanced up to 19 players? Or is there some other piece of evidence.

Evil =/= anti-town.

Yes, you're lawful good aligned, I'm very happy for you, but if you want to win with the majority of the players who are neutral good I suggest you stop advocating for letting scum live. If not I suggest we, all pretending to be neutral good players since those are town, lynch you today for not subjecting to our democracy.

Neutral good is the majority, ergo they are town. I've been saying this for the last two or three pages, is nobody reading this?

I dont think its that we dont see you posting it (because I vividly remember you posting it), its more like we get another idea in our heads, your post goes to the backburner, and then we are reminded of your post. Either that or some people just dont agree with you.

[DoomYoshi]

No proof of majority.

[jonty125]

No proof of majority.

But it probably is.

[betiko]

Fastposted by Doom

Don't give a damn about lawful or chaotic. Evil guys die first. Thus it is decreed. Furthermore, Strike never said Chaos was town, only that there were probably more of them. According to Edoc's opening post, most of us are neutral/good, so I suggest we assume that THEY are town.

ebwop not actually the opening post:

The majority of players would be (neutral, good)

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 7#p4245259

The watcher can win with 2 different evil factions... does that mean you treat him as a survivor? Your win conditions overlap 50%.

Yes, but since good/neut outnumbers evil/anything, and since we won't need to lynch the watcher and he won't need to lynch us, it doesn't matter and I don't care. Even if we end up with GL and GC killing each other off. They have no interest in killing me, I have no interest in killing them.
It's that simple.

This game isn't the standard Town vs. Mafia, so who said that the cult had to have a classic "negative/evil" alignment.

The alignment sheet, as I explained earlier.

you don't sound very good neutral to me aage

[anamainiacks]

[*]Good, regardless of L/N/C seems to be our closest definition of what is considered Town; not Lawful. Evil, by definition, would be (loosely) Anti-Town, though I don't think this is particularly important.[/list]

Is this based on a quote that edoc made out of the thread before the game was in sign ups and before it was balanced up to 19 players? Or is there some other piece of evidence.

Evil =/= anti-town.

Yes, you're lawful good aligned, I'm very happy for you, but if you want to win with the majority of the players who are neutral good I suggest you stop advocating for letting scum live. If not I suggest we, all pretending to be neutral good players since those are town, lynch you today for not subjecting to our democracy.

Neutral good is the majority, ergo they are town. I've been saying this for the last two or three pages, is nobody reading this?

I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that Yoshi is Lawful Good... Did I miss something somewhere? Not to mention, Yoshi hasn't been advocating that we let scum live, just merely questioning our terminology of who's town or otherwise. I'll admit, I strongly disagree with him and it does raise my eyebrows, though I understand where he's coming with his argument. But ultimately, he hasn't actually said we shouldn't be lynching scummy or Chaotic Evil, for example. Seems like rather an overreaction on your part... FOS aage.

[aage]

Fastposted by Doom

Don't give a damn about lawful or chaotic. Evil guys die first. Thus it is decreed. Furthermore, Strike never said Chaos was town, only that there were probably more of them. According to Edoc's opening post, most of us are neutral/good, so I suggest we assume that THEY are town.

ebwop not actually the opening post:

The majority of players would be (neutral, good)

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 7#p4245259

The watcher can win with 2 different evil factions... does that mean you treat him as a survivor? Your win conditions overlap 50%.

Yes, but since good/neut outnumbers evil/anything, and since we won't need to lynch the watcher and he won't need to lynch us, it doesn't matter and I don't care. Even if we end up with GL and GC killing each other off. They have no interest in killing me, I have no interest in killing them.
It's that simple.

This game isn't the standard Town vs. Mafia, so who said that the cult had to have a classic "negative/evil" alignment.

The alignment sheet, as I explained earlier.

you don't sound very good neutral to me aage

Even if I weren't I would still advocate their win condition because they are town. I'm not saying DY is scum, g/n can win perfectly well with g/l. I'm saying if DY continues to ignore this, I suggest we hang him for scum alliance. You could hang me too, but I don't have scum alliance (or if I did, at least I'm not blabbing about it all over the topic).

EXHIBIT A

I don t want to put tfo in trouble, but I wonder why his role mentions the cult.. It seems like he s the only one (other than cult guys i guess).

I m also keeping a theory for later: maybe he needs to be recruited by the cult and is winking at them/him by saying he knows the cult exists..

I am having strong deja vu of HP Lovecraft... anyone else?

So since Lawful and Chaotic CANNOT win together, it seems that Lawfuls outnumber Chaotics as our watcher isn't dead yet. From thence on, we should refer to Lawfuls as "town" to simplify discussions. Thus it is decreed.

The watcher claimed good/neutral (which is town) who are both aligned with lawful good and chaotic good. Means this is a fallacy only intended to make Lawful look better than Chaotic.


EXHIBIT B

[*]Good, regardless of L/N/C seems to be our closest definition of what is considered Town; not Lawful. Evil, by definition, would be (loosely) Anti-Town, though I don't think this is particularly important.[/list]

Is this based on a quote that edoc made out of the thread before the game was in sign ups and before it was balanced up to 19 players? Or is there some other piece of evidence.

Evil =/= anti-town.

The only 'good' aligned group who can win with evil is lawful good. If I look at the sheet, the only people neutral/good CANNOT win with are all evil aligned.

No proof of majority.

Are you going to deny the Mod's words which I have already quoted before?

[aage]

[*]Good, regardless of L/N/C seems to be our closest definition of what is considered Town; not Lawful. Evil, by definition, would be (loosely) Anti-Town, though I don't think this is particularly important.[/list]

Is this based on a quote that edoc made out of the thread before the game was in sign ups and before it was balanced up to 19 players? Or is there some other piece of evidence.

Evil =/= anti-town.

Yes, you're lawful good aligned, I'm very happy for you, but if you want to win with the majority of the players who are neutral good I suggest you stop advocating for letting scum live. If not I suggest we, all pretending to be neutral good players since those are town, lynch you today for not subjecting to our democracy.

Neutral good is the majority, ergo they are town. I've been saying this for the last two or three pages, is nobody reading this?

I dont think its that we dont see you posting it (because I vividly remember you posting it), its more like we get another idea in our heads, your post goes to the backburner, and then we are reminded of your post. Either that or some people just dont agree with you.

If they don't, and I expect people to disagree, they could at least respond so we can have a discussion. That's the game, right?

[MoB Deadly]

The watcher can win with 2 different evil factions... does that mean you treat him as a survivor? Your win conditions overlap 50%.

Yes, but since good/neut outnumbers evil/anything, and since we won't need to lynch the watcher and he won't need to lynch us, it doesn't matter and I don't care. Even if we end up with GL and GC killing each other off. They have no interest in killing me, I have no interest in killing them.
It's that simple.

you don't sound very good neutral to me aage

Even if I weren't I would still advocate their win condition because they are town. I'm not saying DY is scum, g/n can win perfectly well with g/l. I'm saying if DY continues to ignore this, I suggest we hang him for scum alliance. You could hang me too, but I don't have scum alliance (or if I did, at least I'm not blabbing about it all over the topic).

f*ck. With so many players it is hard to find the trees through the forest here. I am kind of overwhelmed with everyone pulling in different directions.

1. I am tempted to put my vote on jonty, but I am going to hold off for now, I think we can find a stronger case if we keep discussion up.
2. Chaotic does NOT equal - anti-town. They may not be "as town" as good/neutral or good/lawful. But surely good/chaotic can win with town.
3. WTF is this soft claim by aage. I don't like that at all. FOS Aage
4. Even though I agree with aage that town is mostly good/neutral, and I disagree with what most of DoomYoshi has said, I dont think DY looks scummy. I think aage looks more scummy than DY right now.

[MoB Deadly]

The watcher can win with 2 different evil factions... does that mean you treat him as a survivor? Your win conditions overlap 50%.

Yes, but since good/neut outnumbers evil/anything, and since we won't need to lynch the watcher and he won't need to lynch us, it doesn't matter and I don't care. Even if we end up with GL and GC killing each other off. They have no interest in killing me, I have no interest in killing them.
It's that simple.

you don't sound very good neutral to me aage

Even if I weren't I would still advocate their win condition because they are town. I'm not saying DY is scum, g/n can win perfectly well with g/l. I'm saying if DY continues to ignore this, I suggest we hang him for scum alliance. You could hang me too, but I don't have scum alliance (or if I did, at least I'm not blabbing about it all over the topic).

f*ck. With so many players it is hard to find the trees through the forest here. I am kind of overwhelmed with everyone pulling in different directions.

1. I am tempted to put my vote on jonty, but I am going to hold off for now, I think we can find a stronger case if we keep discussion up.
2. Chaotic does NOT equal - anti-town. They may not be "as town" as good/neutral or good/lawful. But surely good/chaotic can win with town.
3. WTF is this soft claim by aage. I don't like that at all. FOS Aage
4. Even though I agree with aage that town is mostly good/neutral, and I disagree with what most of DoomYoshi has said, I dont think DY looks scummy. I think aage looks more scummy than DY right now.

EBWOP

[TheForgivenOne]

The watcher can win with 2 different evil factions... does that mean you treat him as a survivor? Your win conditions overlap 50%.

Yes, but since good/neut outnumbers evil/anything, and since we won't need to lynch the watcher and he won't need to lynch us, it doesn't matter and I don't care. Even if we end up with GL and GC killing each other off. They have no interest in killing me, I have no interest in killing them.
It's that simple.

you don't sound very good neutral to me aage

Even if I weren't I would still advocate their win condition because they are town. I'm not saying DY is scum, g/n can win perfectly well with g/l. I'm saying if DY continues to ignore this, I suggest we hang him for scum alliance. You could hang me too, but I don't have scum alliance (or if I did, at least I'm not blabbing about it all over the topic).

f*ck. With so many players it is hard to find the trees through the forest here. I am kind of overwhelmed with everyone pulling in different directions.

1. I am tempted to put my vote on jonty, but I am going to hold off for now, I think we can find a stronger case if we keep discussion up.
2. Chaotic does NOT equal - anti-town. They may not be "as town" as good/neutral or good/lawful. But surely good/chaotic can win with town.
3. WTF is this soft claim by aage. I don't like that at all. FOS Aage
4. Even though I agree with aage that town is mostly good/neutral, and I disagree with what most of DoomYoshi has said, I dont think DY looks scummy. I think aage looks more scummy than DY right now.

EBWOP

I have to agree that I believe town is generally good/neutral, but I really disagree with the fact that DY says that town is "Lawful", whether it be Good, neutral, or Evil.

Although i'm not sure what I think of Jonty probably slipping between the cracks and might not end up claiming now.

[DoomYoshi]

WTF. I thought wolf claimed Lawful Neutral... I should just kill him for tricking me now.

To those who don't understand me: all my posts since the claim were based around the thought that the watcher (the second most pro-town role) was Lawful.


I wish someone would've pointed that out earlier ffs.

[MoB Deadly]

[gregwolf121]

WTF. I thought wolf claimed Lawful Neutral... I should just kill him for tricking me now.

To those who don't understand me: all my posts since the claim were based around the thought that the watcher (the second most pro-town role) was Lawful.


I wish someone would've pointed that out earlier ffs.

no im good/neutral

[aage]

WTF. I thought wolf claimed Lawful Neutral... I should just kill him for tricking me now.

To those who don't understand me: all my posts since the claim were based around the thought that the watcher (the second most pro-town role) was Lawful.


I wish someone would've pointed that out earlier ffs.

Hmm. Figures. I already considered it but it had been said quite often iirc.

[rishaed]

WTF. I thought wolf claimed Lawful Neutral... I should just kill him for tricking me now.

To those who don't understand me: all my posts since the claim were based around the thought that the watcher (the second most pro-town role) was Lawful.


I wish someone would've pointed that out earlier ffs.

I'm currently interested in how serious this part of your post is. Does this mean you are softclaiming vig? OR does this mean you can daykill? I will stick with my vote on jonty currently, but am also very much wondering if this is a slight slip on your part.

[edocsil]

VC

Jonty (5) ~ Newguy, anamainiacks, Epitaph, aage, strike wolf
Strike (3) ~ jonty, rishaed, DoomYoshi
Neb (1) ~ Betiko

Theory Question:
Is there an advantage in fakeclaiming (not counting the Chaotic Evil SK?)

I was going to answer that, but then it lead me to another question.

Edoc, assume we have a single Chaotic Evil SK. Assume he dies. If Law loses to Chaos and Good loses to Evil, can we have a "Chaotic Evil" win anyway?

Choatic Evil exists, and it is basically mod confirmed from the original post laying out the game.

[rishaed]

Hmm..I'm actually going to FOS Jonty for that remark. Cult has always been evil and the mason recruiter has always been the town equivalent to a cult recruiter. Now edoc has been around long enough to consider any town group faction to be called masons. He would not call them cult. Arggh...I had a very clear thought in my head when I started writing this but I can't seem to get it to come out that way. Anyways, my main point is that TFO has confirmed that cult is antagonistic, I am fosing Jonty based on the possible intentional mislead by suggesting possible protagonistic cult.

Just pointing out that I hadn't said they were evil yet when Jonty made that post.

I said we had a cult, he posted his, I said they were an evil dragon worshipers.

However, I haven't encountered a cult that is considered "Good". So maybe he's trying to make it look like I was mentioning a Mason instead of a Cult.

A dragon might also be a possibility for C/E, would probably work more like an SK than anything, but very powerful? Also, seeing as Jonty was twitchy about painting the cult in a good/best light I will vote Jonty. Cult is never pro-town and you have been around long enough to know that.

did you miss my vote edoc?

[Nebuchadnezer]

Do realize, however, that there is a really tricky aspect of my case I have just decided to erase as it would effectively make my case fail (if you see it, try not to spoil it right away - I don't actually mind the case failing, but I wouldn't want to see the game stop again, so let's go with that for a while). Hope this can spur some discussion.

So you post a case, on betiko, vote him, and admit there is a flaw in your logic but aren't willing to share it? FOS Rodion, I don't like it.

He's simply trying to get the game going. Would you rather have it stall out?

No I wouldn't. And I feel my statment echoes what anamainiacks said but, if he posted the flaw in his logic, then we could judge how major a flaw it is, and it would also cause more discussion. Personally, I can't see what he has to lose by providing it (that been the flaw).


My opinions on alignments, is that N/N, are survivor VT's. E/C, resembles an SK, and I suppose there would have to be a group of E/?, as a mafia. Not sure what alignment the cult is but I guess they recruit people to their alignment, unlikely to be N/N me thinks because cults generally have some beliefs, maybe its like a pro town mason recruiter (or whatever that role is called) and the alignment is G/? (I'm leaning G/L but I only hypothesize).

Okay, I've been going round and round about Jonty's post above...I had to go back and re-read it to see if I actually wanted to vote Jonty for it. Reading the order of posts, and what Jonty actually says condenses down to:

1. TFO posts - "hey everyone, there is a cult"
2. Jonty posts - "I think there are survivors (N/N), an SK (E/C), mafia (E/?) and a cult (G/?).
3. TFO posts - "Hey everyone, I was only giving you part of my information, the cult is a bunch of evil dragon worshipers!"

So, Jonty was thinking there was a cult and an SK...I'm not sure how often that happens, even in a game this large. He pinned the E/C on the SK, therefore leaving a hole on what the cult would be. I don't know, his thinking is very disjointed here. Why assume an SK, when TFO says there is a cult? Why not assume cult is E/C and then try to figure the rest?

To top it off, he throws out the OMGUS vote on Strike (I don't think admitting it is OMGUS makes it less scummy).

I will VOTE JONTY.

[DoomYoshi]

figure of speech

[betiko]

damn can't find it... thought it was doom who said it but didn't find it in his posts (maybe i didn't look far back enough?)
Anyway, i remember someone saying something like this: "if the watcher is still not dead it's beacause lawfull outnumbers chaos". I was like.. what, are you talking about daykills?

anyway, I think that if doom didn't remember greg's alignment it's because it's not the same as his.