Soaps Role Madness! Town Wins!

[Extreme Ways]

I probably need to re-read this whole thread tbh

[pmchugh]

I think I would want to lynch pixar in every game. He loved to respond to comments aimed at him immediately and says nothing else. Last game I used this to build a case against him and he was town though, so I am worried he just always looks scummy to me.

I am getting the feeling that some of the phone it in people are wolves though as I get little feeling out the main group. Trafs post today was ballsy, basically saying he won't bother with day 1. Totally off topic but I reckon the site would be better without no lynches being impossible, if deadline hits then person with most votes die, if a tie, its ransomed between those with most votes.

[TrafalgarLaw01]

May i ask why are some people that actually want to achieve a lynch today, We already lost a townie (Yes, the role was gonna probably cause more harm than help), but we dont want to lose 2 townies D1, Do we?

Or do we think we can get a real claim on D1 at this point?

[Loose Canon]

You've played with Pixar before, however. Wouldn't you say that he always plays like that?

YES!!! and it's frustrating that Pixar does seem to do this D1 every game - presumably whether he be Town or Scum or 3P.

I've explained before how I'm reticent to lynch anyone D1 purely because its antisocial as opposed to being "bad for town".

I've made my argument that because I am calling 2 other players as strong leans towards town that this switches the gameplay argument towards lynching in this game.

Other people have argued that scum are breezing through D1 because they assume there will be no lynch and so might need shaking from this assumption.

I don't know what Pixar is, but to me all things considered if ANYONE deserves a lynching/shake up - it is Pixar - in my book.

[Ragian]

May i ask why are some people that actually want to achieve a lynch today, We already lost a townie (Yes, the role was gonna probably cause more harm than help), but we dont want to lose 2 townies D1, Do we?

Or do we think we can get a real claim on D1 at this point?

I feel like I say this every game. A D1 lynch helps reveal patterns for the long run. Today, however, given the death of Son!c, I could be content with a claim.

[Extreme Ways]

May i ask why are some people that actually want to achieve a lynch today, We already lost a townie (Yes, the role was gonna probably cause more harm than help), but we dont want to lose 2 townies D1, Do we?

Or do we think we can get a real claim on D1 at this point?

I feel like I say this every game. A D1 lynch helps reveal patterns for the long run. Today, however, given the death of Son!c, I could be content with a claim.

Theres no patterns with a modkill though

[swang918]

What I notice the most is that a fair few players steered the wagon away from PMS as it had generated a bit of momentum. First off was Charle voting for Pixar, but Kong was quick to follow suit. EW is in here, too, voting LC. Strike at least flat out said that he doesn't think that PMS is scum, so, yeah, I guess there is that.

It's also nice to see Fusi and Swang in here. The latter I agree with on the LC votes. It seems like opting out of thinking. To be honest, I had a slight suss feeling towards LC in the beginning with his weird lover-calling of various players, which seemed grabbed out of...well nothing. Several players listed LC as slightly suss based on his initial play.

Now, our votes are divided between 3-4 players. Time is running out.

@Loose, why are you voting Pixar?

Surely you also saw that I said I would unvote pmc after he acknowledged the reads I made so far? My vote was largely omgus and I think the slot has value and is solveable later in the game for sure.

But my defense to pmc surely now ties me together to him

Based on post timing, strike is alot more tied to Pmc than you are. Strike defended Pmc after i voted him, putting 4 votes on pmc. This is where a fellow scum would want to jump in to try to derail a randwagon before it gets out of hand.
And then pmc posted right after strike’s defense of him, saying how its bad for scum to defend each other this way.
So if pmc is the lynch today and flips scum, I think strike should be looked at next.

[strike wolf]

Loose, is the whole Give Lynch a Chance thing a Post restriction?

@Swang: I've been saying I think PMC is town for a while. Pretty sure I put him as leans town on my list the other day.

[Loose Canon]

Strike what is a post restriction. It isn't but what is it?

What it is I have explained and justified so many times this game.
I am prepared to lynch, in this game I think it would benefit town because I read 2 town, some games I think there should be a lynch else players Inc scum don't have to engage. It's only that it's a bit antisocial that I have qualms about.

[Loose Canon]

Or are you just pushing a button because you figured I was getting a bit narked explaining same thing.

If so nice one.

[fusibaseball]

I am actively reading the thread and trying to form impressions. I had a few votes written out in previous posts but just backspaced all of them...I don't actually want any of those players lynched today or even to claim really.

I think we probably have a stacked Mafia squad on our hands that is going to be difficult to dismantle...something like Rag + EW + PMC or something tough like that.

I do think Scum is getting a pretty free skate through Day 1 though with all the votes being so scattered and I am definitely ready to vote and contribute to forcing a claim should someone slip up or a legitimate case arise (and I'm certainly guilty of letting them coast Day 1 thus far). But no at this time I don't have anyone I'd actually want to vote for, as scummy as that sounds.

[strike wolf]

A post restriction is when your role includes a stipulation that you must post a certain thing or you can't post certain things. The idea is that it affects what you can say or how you can say it in thread.

[kongming3]

If we need to get a claim today, I don't mind making one.

[pmchugh]

What I notice the most is that a fair few players steered the wagon away from PMS as it had generated a bit of momentum. First off was Charle voting for Pixar, but Kong was quick to follow suit. EW is in here, too, voting LC. Strike at least flat out said that he doesn't think that PMS is scum, so, yeah, I guess there is that.

It's also nice to see Fusi and Swang in here. The latter I agree with on the LC votes. It seems like opting out of thinking. To be honest, I had a slight suss feeling towards LC in the beginning with his weird lover-calling of various players, which seemed grabbed out of...well nothing. Several players listed LC as slightly suss based on his initial play.

Now, our votes are divided between 3-4 players. Time is running out.

@Loose, why are you voting Pixar?

Surely you also saw that I said I would unvote pmc after he acknowledged the reads I made so far? My vote was largely omgus and I think the slot has value and is solveable later in the game for sure.

But my defense to pmc surely now ties me together to him

Based on post timing, strike is alot more tied to Pmc than you are. Strike defended Pmc after i voted him, putting 4 votes on pmc. This is where a fellow scum would want to jump in to try to derail a randwagon before it gets out of hand.
And then pmc posted right after strike’s defense of him, saying how its bad for scum to defend each other this way.
So if pmc is the lynch today and flips scum, I think strike should be looked at next.

We think completely opposite, I have the knowledge that I am town and I think this makes strike look more suspicious than he does to the rest of you. If we were both wolves, strike connected us together for no good reason. The chances of this town making a day 1 lynch are small but the chance of one of us dying before eng game is very high. Strike would not be that stupid.

And kong please do not claim. Usually people do it when they are one or two votes from being lynched unless there is a very good reason to do otherwise, e.g. you are a cop and you have a guilty result.

[Ragian]

May i ask why are some people that actually want to achieve a lynch today, We already lost a townie (Yes, the role was gonna probably cause more harm than help), but we dont want to lose 2 townies D1, Do we?

Or do we think we can get a real claim on D1 at this point?

I feel like I say this every game. A D1 lynch helps reveal patterns for the long run. Today, however, given the death of Son!c, I could be content with a claim.

Theres no patterns with a modkill though

Agreed. I'd still prefer a lynch. Should be deducable from what you've quoted.

I am actively reading the thread and trying to form impressions. I had a few votes written out in previous posts but just backspaced all of them...I don't actually want any of those players lynched today or even to claim really.

I think we probably have a stacked Mafia squad on our hands that is going to be difficult to dismantle...something like Rag + EW + PMC or something tough like that.

On what are you basing the above probability (I know that your team selection is random)? And will it be easier to dismantle tomorrow with no D1 to analyse?

[Ragian]

D1 lynch to analyse*

[Votanic]

I really don't mean to be a hardcore 'Day 1 Sucks' player...
In theory, all this quasi-random accusing, micro-analyzing, 'vibe'-sensing, and psyching out could help identify scum.... but it hardly ever does.
Most players can lie, bluff, stonewall, ghost, and otherwise evade these mostly psychological tactics with impunity... just like in RL.

I also really don't get why having a 'claim' is anyone's holy grail at this point.
Again, people can lie... scum WILL lie, town PRs often SHOULD lie.
Even if some near-vanilla player does tell the truth, who cares?... Town still won't know if it's the truth or not, without other evidence to back it up...

One lesson from the recent games seems to be that if you're going to lie about your role, go wild with it, like Ewe and Pixar did in the 'Wolves' game.... though now the wine glasses have probably spun again and any poor sucker with a crazy, avant-garde role is probably going to get lynched for being too 'out there'.

This brings up several points about a Role Madness game that we should all consider.
1. Everybody has PRs (possibly even multiples of the same role...) so latitude for making stuff up is vast, both with regards to claims AND investigative intel... YIKES!?
2. Even if Scum does not have extra PRs (for a change), town doesn't know that, and scum cna lie and make , so it won't help much... Besides, let's face it, they probably do... UGH...
3. A corollary from the first point, is we are all going to have to try extra hard to find the right balance point between gullability and excessive cynicism ... HA, GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.
4.With up to 14 PRs in play, there will be an extra-large amount of shit going down Night 1, and every night afterwards... the evidence-drought we are now experiencing is going to be replaced with an evidence-FLOOD (both real and fake) We will be swamped!

Perhaps the 'optimal' amount of PRs (for town advantage) follows a bell curve... too few and the game just becomes a psych-read guessing game... but too many, and as the name implies, madness likely ensues...

I also would like to add, that watching players like EW and PMC over-explain how they couldn't possibly be scum because thay said X about Y instead of Z, is almost like literally watching that bald guy from The Princess Bride move the proverbial wine glasses around.

[Charle]

So Vot, basically instead of this long post, you could have just said "We are all a bunch of liers!"

I somehow agree with Fusi, Scum is having a nice free ride with all the scattered votes. I will change my vote as soon as we get some direction.

And yes definitely Kong, as PMC rightfully said, please do not claim at this stage, we do not want scum to know what your role is at the moment. Only claim if you have useful information after N1 investigations/actions or whatever town can use to benefit us all.

[pmchugh]

I really don't mean to be a hardcore 'Day 1 Sucks' player...
In theory, all this quasi-random accusing, micro-analyzing, 'vibe'-sensing, and psyching out could help identify scum.... but it hardly ever does.
Most players can lie, bluff, stonewall, ghost, and otherwise evade these mostly psychological tactics with impunity... just like in RL.

I also really don't get why having a 'claim' is anyone's holy grail at this point.
Again, people can lie... scum WILL lie, town PRs often SHOULD lie.
Even if some near-vanilla player does tell the truth, who cares?... Town still won't know if it's the truth or not, without other evidence to back it up...

One lesson from the recent games seems to be that if you're going to lie about your role, go wild with it, like Ewe and Pixar did in the 'Wolves' game.... though now the wine glasses have probably spun again and any poor sucker with a crazy, avant-garde role is probably going to get lynched for being too 'out there'.

This brings up several points about a Role Madness game that we should all consider.
1. Everybody has PRs (possibly even multiples of the same role...) so latitude for making stuff up is vast, both with regards to claims AND investigative intel... YIKES!?
2. Even if Scum does not have extra PRs (for a change), town doesn't know that, and scum cna lie and make , so it won't help much... Besides, let's face it, they probably do... UGH...
3. A corollary from the first point, is we are all going to have to try extra hard to find the right balance point between gullability and excessive cynicism ... HA, GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.
4.With up to 14 PRs in play, there will be an extra-large amount of shit going down Night 1, and every night afterwards... the evidence-drought we are now experiencing is going to be replaced with an evidence-FLOOD (both real and fake) We will be swamped!

Perhaps the 'optimal' amount of PRs (for town advantage) follows a bell curve... too few and the game just becomes a psych-read guessing game... but too many, and as the name implies, madness likely ensues...

I also would like to add, that watching players like EW and PMC over-explain how they couldn't possibly be scum because thay said X about Y instead of Z, is almost like literally watching that bald guy from The Princess Bride move the proverbial wine glasses around.

Vot, the whole game is about bluffing and reading not just day 1. The last game we killed you through night actions framing you. There is no guarantee night actions help you, so lean in to reading bluffs. Also last game sonic literally dead gave away he was a wolf/3rd party for no reason day 1 or 2 and no one noticed.

And as for the last point, here we agree completely. Those statements are WIFOM (wine in front of me) named after the Princess bride, kinda funny if you didn't know ow that was a term already.

I totally agree with that, like strike is smart enough to tie himself to me if we were both scum because its stupid. Happy for people to claim that, it's wrong, but at least it's logical.

I feel like I am getting caught arguing and not enough reads. Will try correct after I fly home.

[*Pixar*]

If we need to get a claim today, I don't mind making one.

Kong was on my "playing dumb possibly scum" list but now after this, he seems 99.9% town to me. As for the rest of you, 50%

[swang918]

One lesson from the recent games seems to be that if you're going to lie about your role, go wild with it, like Ewe and Pixar did in the 'Wolves' game.... though now the wine glasses have probably spun again and any poor sucker with a crazy, avant-garde role is probably going to get lynched for being too 'out there'.

The wildest role from last game was Devante’s inventor thing and he got alot of skepticism for it. And Scum team won with pmc claiming vanilla and charle claiming just regular doc

[swang918]

If we need to get a claim today, I don't mind making one.

Kong was on my "playing dumb possibly scum" list but now after this, he seems 99.9% town to me. As for the rest of you, 50%

How does that post change anything? If kong was “scum playing noob” before, he could still be doing it in that post. It doesn’t move the needle in any direction at all

[swang918]

Re vot— about why people want a claim so much— i think that its not so much the claim itself—which as you said can often be meaningless— but that we want to push someone close enough to lynch that theyre forced to claim. So in my mind, “i want a claim today” is shorthand for saying “i want to get enough votes on someone today to make them claim.” The benefit is the voting record and post history that comes with getting someone to L-1 or L-2, not the actual claim.

[Loose Canon]

Agree with swang on this. Kong is still on my town list but has he overdone the pretending to be noob bit I'm wondering?
There's a hint of flavour of pretending to be noob on my palate now.

[Loose Canon]

Or Kong could be 3P?