Celtic 7 Nations v4.0 [Quenched]!

[The Bison King]

I really think it's the best we're gonna do. I've looked around and I've found some very lovely and elaborate type faces but once you shrink it down it becomes completely illegible. What's on their now is still legible and fairly elaborate, so I'm going to stick with it.

[porkenbeans]

It seems a little redundant to have both the mini-map with the names, and the names with the bonus amounts next to it. Couldn't you just put the bonus amounts on the mini-map ?

Also he border on he mini-map is too large IMHO. it is just stealing too much attention from the rest of the map.

[ender516]

Obviously there'll need to be changes in the XML.

Sigh. Ahh, well, no biggie.

Are there any other outstanding issues with the XML that I have forgotten?

[The Bison King]

It seems a little redundant to have both the mini-map with the names, and the names with the bonus amounts next to it. Couldn't you just put the bonus amounts on the mini-map ?

I could but then there would be a large ugly empty spot on the map. It would also make the mini map a bit crowded. I like having both it's a little redundant yes, but I feel it brings a good visual balance to the map, that out ways that.

Also he border on he mini-map is too large IMHO. it is just stealing too much attention from the rest of the map.

I do not agree.

Are there any other outstanding issues with the XML that I have forgotten?

Not that I'm aware of. I took the accent off of Domnonee so I suggest you do the same on the XML. You'll probably have to adjust the coordinates in Galicia as well. Also on the territory Albioni (on the large) you can just put the counter in the dead center cause I'm going to move the text off to the side, like I did on the small.

[DubWarrior]

Some minor things here,
I love to see a traditional name alongside the current name,
But I'm not sure about the minimap. I would do the same btw for France and a part of England. Now only the traditional name is written there in grey (Gaul,...). I would also place there a current name.
Those red dragons, are they not specific heraldry for wales? I wouldn't make them red (even if they are traditionally red) It's just not at its place...I would suggest a blue or grey for them.
I'm not sure if you need them or if they are the right symbol. All regions have a certain typical symbol...Maybe a Triskelion, It was a common symbol amongst all celtic tribes, so It could be more suitable?



I would take another font for "7 nations"...It's just not fitting with the font above it (the one I Looove by the way...were can I download it?).

GL with it.

[DubWarrior]

I'm still not happy with the bonus area names first letters. I know you're trying to do something fancy there but it just doesn't work at that scale. Now they don't look fancy, they look smudgy and unclear. Sorry for being so blunt.

Why not find a font that has nice looking letters but with less small details.

Sorry but I must agree a bit on it...Have a look at Dafont.
I think this one could be nice, I suggest you look for a subtle font, not to much curls
http://www.dafont.com/livingstone.font
http://www.dafont.com/kells-sd.font

I also did a halfuncial (a typical Irish 7th and 8th century font, replaced in later medieval centuries the west by the Fraktur but used in Ireland, even still today. most people link it with an Irish or celtic spirit).
I can send you "7 Nations" in that font. Its historically correct.

[The Bison King]

I love to see a traditional name alongside the current name,
But I'm not sure about the minimap. I would do the same btw for France and a part of England. Now only the traditional name is written there in grey (Gaul,...). I would also place there a current name.

I'm not exactly sure what you are saying here. I'm not sure it's necessary to add France and England into the mini map because they are non-playable area's I think this would only serve to confuse players.

Those red dragons, are they not specific heraldry for wales? I wouldn't make them red (even if they are traditionally red) It's just not at its place...I would suggest a blue or grey for them.

We've already been over this. While the Dragons are most commonly identified with Wales today the symbol predates modern wales and is believed to have stemmed from Aurthurian legend, as in that is the Dragon the King Aurthur supposedly slayed. Also I'm sticking with red (remember when you actually play on this map there will be plenty of other colors other than green present anyway)

I would take another font for "7 nations"...It's just not fitting with the font above it (the one I Looove by the way...were can I download it?).

We've already been over this as well. This is the font I changed it to because people didn't like the old font. No matter what font I change it to someones not going to like it. Also I've gotten all fonts from http://www.Dafont.com

Sorry but I must agree a bit on it...Have a look at Dafont.

ok NOW you are busting my balls. If you really want I'll change it to something boring. If everyone would really just prefer to see something simple and boring that's what I'll do but I am really not happy about this.

[The Bison King]

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

Do people prefer this? Is this what people prefer?

[porkenbeans]

Here is an idea for the "7 Nations" text. -Spell out 7, as in SEVEN NATIONS. then scale it down so that it fits under the CELTIC, and have it centered and flanking the emblem. You can scale the width way out, and space the two words apart so that they fit without covering the emblem.

I like the new layout for the bonus amounts. However, I think that you should play around with it a bit. Maybe try switching up the color for the text to an off white, and use drop shadow instead of outer glow. And make the emblem the dark green. Just try out some different things with it.

One more thing, I wish that there was a better place found for your sig. Maybe it would work in the bottom corner of the mini-map ? I like it very much, but only wished there was a better location for it. It might look good if you were to arch the text around the icon.

[The Bison King]

Here is an idea for the "7 Nations" text. -Spell out 7, as in SEVEN NATIONS. then scale it down so that it fits under the CELTIC, and have it centered and flanking the emblem. You can scale the width way out, and space the two words apart so that they fit without covering the emblem.

Sure why not.

Click image to enlarge.

Here's my last attempt to get people into the fancy font on the legend. Color Coding.

Click image to enlarge.

[porkenbeans]

Here is an idea for the "7 Nations" text. -Spell out 7, as in SEVEN NATIONS. then scale it down so that it fits under the CELTIC, and have it centered and flanking the emblem. You can scale the width way out, and space the two words apart so that they fit without covering the emblem.

Sure why not.

Click image to enlarge.

Here's my last attempt to get people into the fancy font on the legend. Color Coding.

Click image to enlarge.

Yeah, on the right track. I think that if you scaled it down even further, then kern out the seven, and kern in the nations to a point where they are of equal width, then they would fit without covering any of the emblem.

[The Bison King]

oh god! he's talking about kerning now.

[The Bison King]

honestly though I have know idea can you even Kern in photoshop?

[natty dread]

You should switch to paint.net, so you would get to use my awesome kerning tool which features an interface with 20 sliders stacked on top of each other.

[porkenbeans]

honestly though I have know idea can you even Kern in photoshop?

Yes, It is not too difficult. I walked Grift through it in under a minute. I can try to explain it here real quick, and if you have any problems, we can get together on a live chat.

I use the old 7.0, so I do not know how different your program is if you don't.

-Click on a text layer
-click the text tool
-go up to the bar at the top of the window and click on the little box that is the paragraph and character pallet.
I learned by trial and error, so play with it, and then if you get to the point of pulling your hair out, give me a PM. We can arrange a live chat, and I can walk you through it.
Here is kinda what I am suggesting.

Click image to enlarge.

[The Bison King]

Click image to enlarge.

Oh, thanks but I ended up just doing it in Illustrator, but it actually looks pretty stupid. admittedly your version looks a little better. However I think that the symmetry you achieve through the kerning isn't equal to how obvious it is that the texts themselves have been tampered with. I guess what I mean is that it actually looks less balanced than if one side was just a little longer:

Click image to enlarge.

[The Bison King]

Also I noticed that you used the version with the color coded fancy font, does this mean you prefer that? I dunno no ones actually commented on that.

[porkenbeans]

Adjusting the kerning is something every pro does before he puts his name on the work. The kerning is set mathematically, but because every style of text is a little bit different, and certain letters when they are next to each other will need to be adjusted, because of their shape in relation to each other. For example, look at your title. do you see the space between the L and the T in CELTIC. You can drive a truck through there. The distance between those two letters needs to be reduced. Adjusting the kerning is something that you have to just do with your eye. After you get all of that kerning knocked out, then you need to go in and center everything up. Use your rulers and guides for this. I know that it is only a a pixel or two (or more) adjustment, but you will really notice the difference if you were to look at them side by side. And, these small things when done right will make your work look much more professional in the end. I also notice other kerning issues with the labeling. Mostly with the "r" it seems.

[The Bison King]

Adjusting the kerning is something every pro does before he puts his name on the work. The kerning is set mathematically, but because every style of text is a little bit different, and certain letters when they are next to each other will need to be adjusted, because of their shape in relation to each other. For example, look at your title. do you see the space between the L and the T in CELTIC. You can drive a truck through there. The distance between those two letters needs to be reduced. Adjusting the kerning is something that you have to just do with your eye. After you get all of that kerning knocked out, then you need to go in and center everything up. Use your rulers and guides for this. I know that it is only a a pixel or two (or more) adjustment, but you will really notice the difference if you were to look at them side by side. And, these small things when done right will make your work look much more professional in the end. I also notice other kerning issues with the labeling. Mostly with the "r" it seems.

Are you like being paid by the national Kerning society or something? Yeah I know what you are saying and I know that Kerning is used by professional designers (I did go to an art and design school) but using kerning to compensate the difference of an entire letter is very different than what you are talking about in the above paragraph. That's called Kerning abuse.

[porkenbeans]

Adjusting the kerning is something every pro does before he puts his name on the work. The kerning is set mathematically, but because every style of text is a little bit different, and certain letters when they are next to each other will need to be adjusted, because of their shape in relation to each other. For example, look at your title. do you see the space between the L and the T in CELTIC. You can drive a truck through there. The distance between those two letters needs to be reduced. Adjusting the kerning is something that you have to just do with your eye. After you get all of that kerning knocked out, then you need to go in and center everything up. Use your rulers and guides for this. I know that it is only a a pixel or two (or more) adjustment, but you will really notice the difference if you were to look at them side by side. And, these small things when done right will make your work look much more professional in the end. I also notice other kerning issues with the labeling. Mostly with the "r" it seems.

Are you like being paid by the national Kerning society or something? Yeah I know what you are saying and I know that Kerning is used by professional designers (I did go to an art and design school) but using kerning to compensate the difference of an entire letter is very different than what you are talking about in the above paragraph. That's called Kerning abuse.

It is like I said, It is a matter of using your eye. This kerning "abuse" is a common trick that is done all the time. The trick is to do it in a way that it is not readily noticeable. The example that I posted could still use a little touching up, but it is not bad.

BTW, this kerning stuff is something that a perfectionist like me notices. That is why I am such a good "Punch-Out" Carpenter. It is a curse actually. lol.

[ender516]

TBK, I liked the legend with the illuminated initials, no matter what natty said. They weren't perfectly clear, but those types of letters never are. Did anyone other than natty complain? If not, use what you like. The colour coding is fine, but not necessary.

I am going to change the XML as far as the Galician names are concerned. As a double check, would you post the "before" and "after" names?

[The Bison King]

TBK, I liked the legend with the illuminated initials, no matter what natty said. They weren't perfectly clear, but those types of letters never are. Did anyone other than natty complain? If not, use what you like. The colour coding is fine, but not necessary.

Dub Warrior mentioned it but that still makes it a tie with you and me... well of course my vote is extra special cause I am the doer of things... I don't know I really don't feel like thinking about this anymore tonight. Today's been a headache in here.

I am going to change the XML as far as the Galician names are concerned. As a double check, would you post the "before" and "after" names?

I can do that for you. Tomorrow though.

[ender516]

I think the changes are as follows:

• A Coruna => Atrabri
• Asturias => Albioni
• Lugo => Seurri
• Vigo => Cileni
• Orense => Coelerni

[natty dread]

Today's been a headache in here.

And now you can call yourself a mapmaker.

[The Bison King]

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

I think the changes are as follows:

* A Coruna => Atrabri
* Asturias => Albioni
* Lugo => Seurri
* Vigo => Cileni
* Orense => Coelerni

And you'd be right.

I'm going with the block letters. Their easy to see and they catch your attention. The other one doesn't jump out at you the same way. For now I'm using the colored ones for that reason but there's a good chance I'll switch back to the same colored version.