[Official] Wheel of Time:EotW [8/14] D4:Twisted Pattern

[Streaker]

Yeah Unvote and just lynch me for skimming/misreading.
It makes a lot more sense if I don't mess up those names.

[dd515087]

Yeah Unvote and just lynch me for skimming/misreading.
It makes a lot more sense if I don't mess up those names.

Which names did you mess up? I'm confused on both. There is no push on Wings and mtam has been MIA. I'm not going to lynch you for skimming/misreading I'm going to lynch you for not clarifying on ANYTHING I've asked you. What you've done since I've posted is: accuse me not having any logic behind my list (because you didn't read my first two posts) and vote me for it, then you tried to clarify that you thought my list was illogical because of some voting/pushing issues (which you messed up BOTH names) and now you say you messed up, but still won't clarify (because what you said made no sense) and then unvote me and accuse me of trying to lynch you for misreading/skimming. FTR I voted Storr over you because I wanted to lynch him more, I just happened to also think you were scum and now all you've done since then is reaffirm that belief.

[Streaker]

I don't see the issue. I caught something that stood out, but it was based on a mis-read.
Thought you were referring to Mtam push on wing early game. Mitch has nothing to do with it.
Never accused you of anything apart from the illogical conclusion, so stop twisting my words (which you have done 2x now already).

Also you have failed to provide any reason for why you think I'm scum.
If you have any real questions, i'll happily answer them.

[dd515087]

I don't see the issue. I caught something that stood out, but it was based on a mis-read.
Thought you were referring to Mtam push on wing early game. Mitch has nothing to do with it.
Never accused you of anything apart from the illogical conclusion, so stop twisting my words (which you have done 2x now already).

Also you have failed to provide any reason for why you think I'm scum.
If you have any real questions, i'll happily answer them.

I have not twisted your words. I questioned why you thought I would refer to that push, that is dead. I also gave my thoughts on the scenario which you were referring to that push... (I was not sure why you would refer to it, I thought you must have some names confused) ...which you were doing. My reasons for thinking you were scum are in my second post on page 11 where I had multiple comments on some of your posts, you seem to have still not read that.

Again I did not think you were as scummy as Storr at the time when I called you scum, that's why I voted him and not you. Our recent back and forth has pushed me to think you are more scummy now then earlier.

[Iron Butterfly]

Lets look at Storr

We know two have visited him. They both confirm they lost a vote. They both confirm they received a pro Town ability. Some have argued (Mets) that there are no Pro Town abilities as mafia has it's equivalent. I disagree. Mafia has no use for doc as they do the killing. Now as a matter of probability a doc would come in handy against an SK or Vig but on the whole the odds it being useful are minimized compared to Town. Granted some roles are interchangeable, role blocker, jailer for block, vig action. BUT A cop would not be needed nor a tracker or watcher but they would severely handicap mafia especially if several were granted in a day.

Seems like a pretty crappy mafia role/ability that, 1) A player with some semblance of common sense would notice they lost their vote when they visited Storr. At the very least the evidence would become more apparent the game wore on as more people lost votes.

2nd. It would only serve as a handicap to mafia. You think mafia wants an unknown number of Town abilities floating around?

Now granted Storr plays head games and likes to claim day one. The difference is his fate is tied to several others. It is hard to maintain a con when other people play an important part in how your role works.

BUT this is what bothers me now. Why would mafia visit Storr now knowing they would lose their vote?

This is also Daytime. We are dealing with day actions. If Storr is Town why would we need a player to give Town Buffs...unless they will really be needed?

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Anyone actually think I should explain my understanding of flavour? I think not. Yes I have a very good idea who Storr and Madmitch are. This I have gained from research. No I dont think I should actually tell you.

This is mostly a response to Mets and DD.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

If we all visit Storr and he is Mafia, then he has the power to control nightkills, and the power to control lynchs. We're screwed.

You do have to wonder why he is giving people their votes back when he doesnt know their alignment.

@End - All well and good, but you are not even trying to draw out Mafia. Its akin to giving up. I agree with lynching Madmitch if we have no better option come the deadline, but to go in with the intention of a safe lynch is not helpful.

@IB - Hotshot has not confirmed the gift to be pro-town.

@DD - Sure you log in to play risk, but I am not talking about just logging in. I am talking about you quite regularly browsing the mafia forums, which you have claimed you do not do. Do I need to take multiple screenshots to prove this or are you going to own up?

[Streaker]

There is a big difference between how HS and Mitch reacted to their 'trade'. While it was wrong to ask for a specific power in a post, I did came back to it and asked HS to confirm whether or not it is a 'pro' town power.

Is there any reason to not punish Mitch for how he is already claiming and yet not saying anything? He is currently hiding behind his soft-claim and not contributing. My vote is ment to get some posts from him. There is nothing wrong with being the 3rd or 5th or whatever on the wagon at this point, not when I explained my reasoning behind it.

I sheep other player' questions if they are worth being answered, but not actually being answered.

What exactly is so unclear about my answers?
I clearly explained my vote, and how I saw it. Yes it was based on certain names being switched, and I backed off the moment I realized that mistake. That doesnt make the reasoning flawed.

You are twisting my words, even just now recently when you said that I accused you of trying to lynch me for misreading/skimming.

Now for the sake of clarity, if ANYTHING is still unclear to you, spill it out.

IB, what are you trying to achieve with your breakdown of Storr?
I feel that his role is something like 3rd party. I seriously doubt mafia would have a role like that, has to be either 3rd party or town.

FP'd wing

[madmitch]

@IB please listen this time my vote was not taken it was my choice to trade. I could of refused the offer but it was in my mind a good deal that would benefit myself and town 100 % @ streaker I am not sitting behind a soft claim

[Marashu]

Anyone actually think I should explain my understanding of flavour? I think not. Yes I have a very good idea who Storr and Madmitch are. This I have gained from research. No I dont think I should actually tell you.

Ok, don't tell us. But you seem pretty convinced about things that could go a few ways. You say mitch is not Rand? If he didn't do much research, I can see 2 things in his posts that suggest he might be. You say you know that Storr's role is town? I can think of a case for a 3rd party who corrupts those who take his gifts, and might potentially win when half the vote is controlled. I could potentially see a case for a scum with the role (evil merchant), but I feel like that one is a bit of a stretch. Further, the town character only really gives one kind of item - I'm not sure where this multiple items thing is coming from. For the time being, I'm still leaning town with Storr, and I do think that it's the character I think you think he is.

@DD - I'm sold on Storr because while I don't think his role guarantees his alignment, the way he has been handling it has given me a town vibe.

[Iron Butterfly]

There is a big difference between how HS and Mitch reacted to their 'trade'. While it was wrong to ask for a specific power in a post, I did came back to it and asked HS to confirm whether or not it is a 'pro' town power.

Is there any reason to not punish Mitch for how he is already claiming and yet not saying anything? He is currently hiding behind his soft-claim and not contributing. My vote is ment to get some posts from him. There is nothing wrong with being the 3rd or 5th or whatever on the wagon at this point, not when I explained my reasoning behind it.

I sheep other player' questions if they are worth being answered, but not actually being answered.

What exactly is so unclear about my answers?
I clearly explained my vote, and how I saw it. Yes it was based on certain names being switched, and I backed off the moment I realized that mistake. That doesnt make the reasoning flawed.

You are twisting my words, even just now recently when you said that I accused you of trying to lynch me for misreading/skimming.

Now for the sake of clarity, if ANYTHING is still unclear to you, spill it out.

IB, what are you trying to achieve with your breakdown of Storr?
I feel that his role is something like 3rd party. I seriously doubt mafia would have a role like that, has to be either 3rd party or town.

FP'd wing

I believe he is Town but question some things and worry about others? That answer work for you?

[Talapus]

@IB please listen this time my vote was not taken it was my choice to trade. I could of refused the offer but it was in my mind a good deal that would benefit myself and town 100 % @ streaker I am not sitting behind a soft claim

I finally get what you are saying Mitch but it is day one. By claiming day one you received a power role that will 100% benefit town really only has two outcomes in my mind.

One, you are trying to seem town desperately so someone will save you tonight as no doubt mafia may try targeting you for having a suppossed awesome town power. The better option would have been to keep you mouth shut. But you did soft claiming early on in only other mafia game I ever played with you so guess this is maybe your play style?

Two, you may have gotten an awesome town power. However in my mind that certainly doesn't put me at ease that you may be town. You were able to trade. It is entirely possible you are mafia as they too would have a vote and traded for a seemingly town power. You claim you used it day two and prove it and boom, people buy you as town for rest of game and you stay safe.

Either reason I'm not a fan of. The point is though that you benefit town more(if you are town) by not soft hinting day one to steer a conversation in your direction.

[Talapus]

Oh and Unvote. No reason to have a joke vote out there anymore. Doesn't mean though that I currently see a better candidate for a real vote though at moment either.

[StorrZerg]

not interested in dd5 lynch, barking up the wrong tree he is. He put a lot of effort into trying to lynch me which the big thing he has is assuming i got all my day information in 1 pm. As well as assuming it came in on the same day. There is an obvious explanation for why my attitude changed regarding hotshot when it did, and why it was so long in between When i first made comments about hotshots vote steal, and when i claimed to be responsible.

[Streaker]

not interested in dd5 lynch, barking up the wrong tree he is. He put a lot of effort into trying to lynch me which the big thing he has is assuming i got all my day information in 1 pm. As well as assuming it came in on the same day. There is an obvious explanation for why my attitude changed regarding hotshot when it did, and why it was so long in between When i first made comments about hotshots vote steal, and when i claimed to be responsible.

Apart from proving yourself town, who you wanna lynch?

[StorrZerg]

@mets (responding to his comments)

This doesn't make any sense. They're your votes, use them to vote the way you believe. Especially given the possibility that they're mafia, you shouldn't give them any special consideration in determining where they go. Said another way, why should Hotshot have any more say in where his vote goes than I do, after it has been traded? They knew the risks involved in losing their vote in return for the item/ability.

absolutely not. At some point imake take control of the votes and do as i wish since that is perfectly within reason for me, how ever i see no reason to not allow people to still use their votes. Its important that accountability is still had on hotshot and madmitch. Since they have no vote, maybe they input less, complain about no vote, etc. giving them the option to still use and do as they wish with their vote, means that im not manipulating the votes. As for their alignment, 1 mafia vote isn't going to kill us if one is mafia, and it will be fair easier to try and catch someone with honest voting history, than if they have no voting history. ANd obviously they should have more input than you for tons of reasons. 1 i have no read on you so why would i ever listen to you. 2 we went into a trade agreement, they know something about me, and i have something of theirs. 3, by forcing them to vote i can then try and read how they are playing the game since im still leaving control over their votes. and manyyy moooreee.

A bold statement to make for someone who admitted they didn't read the book.
An even bolder statement to make and try and call out someone for flavor when one hasn't read anything. am I RIGHT. ANd the way he is talking, he might not know who i am, maybe he does, but its clear he has some some research into the game. reading wikis etc. So calling him out educating himself on the game lol?

Honestly i hated this first bit into the game. complaint after complaint.

@dd5 comment

Trying to buy more townie cred by letting them have input?

buying town credit or not, would you rather them retain some control over their vote or not? Simply the answer is yes since you seem to think im mafia.

To me the initial exchange seems like something Storr would do to gain town cred and then later he can say that he didn't get a message until later on and now he is confirmed town because of the powers he gave out. This is Storr guys all he does is make bold moves and play mind games.

Save for the part where claiming mod interaction to bolster your cred when you are being deceptive about it is bs. I do have a code that i live up to, and this is not anything that i would pull to try and get a read,or try and gain town credit. Regardless of my alignment this game, what im claiming about the msgs is truth. I don't make up this stuff.

btw dd5
I'm confirmed town, i'm town, im not mafia, and im really truly town. cause my role is fucking cool and charm would love it, and she would love eating vanilla ice cream with me.

Also dd5, you are not going to get me lynched today, or gain any more information about my role today either. You might get someplace on streaker, but you made your stance on me cool, but you wont get anything more till tomorrow.
More goodies tomorrow if you trade with me Im the mother fucking candy man bitches

[StorrZerg]

not interested in dd5 lynch, barking up the wrong tree he is. He put a lot of effort into trying to lynch me which the big thing he has is assuming i got all my day information in 1 pm. As well as assuming it came in on the same day. There is an obvious explanation for why my attitude changed regarding hotshot when it did, and why it was so long in between When i first made comments about hotshots vote steal, and when i claimed to be responsible.

Apart from proving yourself town, who you wanna lynch?

Apart from having proved myself as town, Virus. We have approached past the half way point of this day phase, and Virus has provided zilch to the game.

Don't mind pressure on many others, but i made list of those I'm not interested in pressuring.

[StorrZerg]

If you want a quick day 2, everyone visit me, it's going to be fun
@wing would I live longer if I claimed 3p?

Again I don't want to lynch dd15 over his push on me

[Streaker]

not interested in dd5 lynch, barking up the wrong tree he is. He put a lot of effort into trying to lynch me which the big thing he has is assuming i got all my day information in 1 pm. As well as assuming it came in on the same day. There is an obvious explanation for why my attitude changed regarding hotshot when it did, and why it was so long in between When i first made comments about hotshots vote steal, and when i claimed to be responsible.

Apart from proving yourself town, who you wanna lynch?

Apart from having proved myself as town, Virus. We have approached past the half way point of this day phase, and Virus has provided zilch to the game.

Don't mind pressure on many others, but i made list of those I'm not interested in pressuring.

Virus made an extensive post, though. P7. He hasn't posted a lot, but he never does. I think it's a pretty standard D1 as far as activity goes, and he did bring up all of his thoughts in that post. Wouldn't hurt him to follow up on that now.

If you gonna look at least contributing, I'd say Endgame and Mitch have contributed the least. If Mitch is going to play the pure flavour game again, we might just as well lynch him today.

If you want a quick day 2, everyone visit me, it's going to be fun
@wing would I live longer if I claimed 3p?

Again I don't want to lynch dd15 over his push on me

So you are mainly interested in whatever keeps you alive the longest? Interesting.

[StorrZerg]

Please drum up the post virus made as something worthwhile. He gave no lasting input, questioned reads people gave, gave no direction himself , and ended asking tamb and I to explain why people should read us town.

Yep, very thoughtful post.

Pease stop talking about on going games.

What did you like from what virus said? What made you intrigued, what was new, what ?

[StorrZerg]

Madmitch by requesting for his vote to be placed with little reasoning and possibly just sheeping is more input than virus has given.

[Streaker]

I will not quote the single big post he made. Already explained what I like about it. Also said he should follow up on it. If you want to go after him for no input, I do not understand why Mitch is not getting the same if not more attention for that as well.

Not commenting on Virus post as you want, it is of no use to our discussion. You said no content, I proved otherwise. This isn't about how I feel about that post. Though I'll go through it again tomorrow and post it if you want me to.

[Endgame422]

You can say i haven't contributed much but i disagree.
Theres certainly been discussion on my point about mitch.
And streaker by now you ought to know im stubborn about these kind of things. I guess in the same respect i should know you will lynch someone over disagreeing with you.
A few days left. Anyone intersted in getting a claim or are we all just going to say why people arent scum?
Mitch seems the best choice to me but we kinda need to get it together and agree if adaquate pressure is to be applied to someone with enough time to get any info from them.

[Streaker]

I am fine with pressuring Mitch into a claim.

[got tonkaed]

Nothing about mitch screams best choice to me. Essentially he had a day action where he visited storr day 1. It seems reasonable to believe he wouldn't know what would happen, which seems to be corroborated by Hotshot.

Storr seems to have filled in some of the gaps, but my assumption is none of that has really been alignment tied on its own merits.

People pushing a lynch on mitch are scummier for pushing an easy lynch.