The Puget Sound [Quenched]

[wicked]

Love the whales, leave 'em alone. The whales, land/water texture, circle placement and ferry routes have all been discussed at length. Tisha, I'd just see what you can do with the borders and any *new* concerns noted, not those that have already been discussed/agreed upon. Don't get too overwhelmed with all the last minute stuff.

[clapper011]

your map looks great Tisha! well done

[RjBeals]

anything else i forgot?

I guess that's about it.

Just because you're frustrated doesn't mean that we all have to stop posting. I personally don't think this map should have been put into FF yet. But I guess there's no one to blame but myself. Like I said, you're in FF so apparently Andy and others thought the map was good enough. I just think it doesn't have enough of the polished look. But congrats for making this far. Very few make it to FF.

[rebelman]

Love the whales, leave 'em alone. The whales, land/water texture, circle placement and ferry routes have all been discussed at length. Tisha, I'd just see what you can do with the borders and any *new* concerns noted, not those that have already been discussed/agreed upon. Don't get too overwhelmed with all the last minute stuff.

solid advice wiki, i have been shot down in the past for offering comments on maps late in the day and not earlier in the process - i'm really surprised at the cartos. doing this to one of their own so late in the game

PS Tisha mightn't be the worst plan in the world to take up gimil's offer if it keeps the wolves from the door and gets this fine map quenched.

[Tisha]

anything else i forgot?

I guess that's about it.

Just because you're frustrated doesn't mean that we all have to stop posting. I personally don't think this map should have been put into FF yet. But I guess there's no one to blame but myself. Like I said, you're in FF so apparently Andy and others thought the map was good enough. I just think it doesn't have enough of the polished look. But congrats for making this far. Very few make it to FF.

i didn't say stop posting..i just don't know why your just now posting all these things that u don't like about my map now...when it has been here all along..

just like gnomes comment.."actually I didn't comment on this map a lot because I didn't like it...now it's in FF so I just tell you everything that I would like to see change...do with it what you want..."

why wait until final forge...when everything has been discussed already?

and it's not just a small part of the map..it's everything about the map u want changed

[AndyDufresne]

As a number of people mentioned, one of the downsides to the Foundry is that some things aren't commented and advised on in early stages of map development.

One of the upsides to the Foundry is that people still care enough to comment and advise, even if it is at a later stage. People are posting advice, not because they wan't to slow down your map or hurt you personally, they are posting because they care about the maps make it out of the Foundry. We all just want to see the best possible map that can be made.

The best advice I can give you, at this stage in map development, is be responsive and have patience.


--Andy

[James Vazquez]

This all seems like a bunch of nit picking over peoples opinions and not any substantial meat to any single suggestion. This map is as it stands now as good as any other map on this site. Any changes or alterations are simply a waist of time none will change game play or the fun we are going to have playing this map.

You johnny come lately's can quibble all ya want but there a huge group of us who do not typically post in forums that are patiently waiting for this map to be done. So if its attention your looking for come into chat you'll find plenty there. Drop the nonsense and lets get this map done.

This is a finished product playable and pleasent to look at. So lets get playing this thing already if the line thickness or font really bother you dont play the map then.

[Risky_Stud]

i agree andy, but why should she change stuff that was already discussed and changed from other peoples comment's. especially for someone like gnome who was never even gonna play the map anyway. you cant please everyone, so why please these last minute people who did'nt bother to check it out earlier. if you do that you'll just iratate the people you already pleased. it's a lose lose situation if you do that.

[RjBeals]

why wait until final forge...when everything has been discussed already?

Sorry - I know that I should visit & comment more. But I find that I usually focus on my maps and don't venture out into the other threads enough.

People are posting advice, not because they wan't to slow down your map or hurt you personally, they are posting because they care about the maps make it out of the Foundry. We all just want to see the best possible map that can be made.

Yep.

[RjBeals]

You johnny come lately's can quibble all ya want but there a huge group of us who do not typically post in forums that are patiently waiting for this map to be done. So if its attention your looking for come into chat you'll find plenty there. Drop the nonsense and lets get this map done.

I'm not quibbling, and definitely not seeking attention. The map is not quenched yet, so I have every right to post my comments. So since I didn't follow the map from the beginning, my opinions shouldn't be held as important? What if I just joined CC yesterday and just came into the foundry as a newb? I shouldn't post a comment until a I see a brand new map being developed?

[wicked]

Final Forge = October 27
XML cleared = November 9

It's been in FF for almost a MONTH and NOW you guys comment? and really guys, coming in and saying you don't want to play it anyway isn't really "constructive".

[gimil]

Final Forge = October 27
XML cleared = November 9

It's been in FF for almost a MONTH and NOW you guys comment? and really guys, coming in and saying you don't want to play it anyway isn't really "constructive".

It doesnt matter how long its in FF, and tisha needs to stop acting like shes being victimised, shes not the only one this has happened to. But i dont blame her, i blame the foundry and paticullarly teh cartos for giving FF status to the map, --- wouldnt of let this map or the civil war map make it through in there current state

As for the legends and other problems brought up, i gonna say that there isnt such a real problem with them as mentioned.

[happy2seeyou]

I think the map looks nice. What are the problems that people are complaining about? (I don't feel like browsing through all these pages) I was under the impression this map was done.

[wicked]

Gimil, I was more just wondering about the "all of the suddenness" of all these new comments when it's been in FF for almost a month.

Happy, I think the main concern is the borders between countries, some of the lines are "jagged" and not same thickness apparently.

[gimil]

Gimil, I was more just wondering about the "all of the suddenness" of all these new comments when it's been in FF for almost a month.

Happy, I think the main concern is the borders between countries, some of the lines are "jagged" and not same thickness apparently.

Im aware of te sudden influck of comments, i would of commented sooner but i havent really been active, that fact that the rest of the foundry didnt pick up on them amazes me.

If you want to see real nit picking and a sudden influx of comments read the portugal thread.

[Risky_Stud]

what i don't understand though, gimil is how you can attack this map and civil war about the lines. like jitteryness! and you said nothing on the lines in the soviet union map, about lines when there just as according to you jittery. am i just confused or are you bias

[RjBeals]

that fact that the rest of the foundry didnt pick up on them amazes me.

Somebody suggested I check out this thread. So I did.

[gimil]

what i don't understand though, gimil is how you can attack this map and civil war about the lines. like jitteryness! and you said nothing on the lines in the soviet union map, about lines when there just as according to you jittery. am i just confused or are you bias

The soviet unions lines arnt jittery, they curve much smoother and more consistant that these lines.

[wicked]

that fact that the rest of the foundry didnt pick up on them amazes me.

Somebody suggested I check out this thread. So I did.

I figured as much. Thanks.

[RjBeals]

that fact that the rest of the foundry didnt pick up on them amazes me.

Somebody suggested I check out this thread. So I did.

I figured as much. Thanks.

Well then I guess none of my comments are meaningful. Thanks.

[happy2seeyou]

Hey there beals.

[mibi]

In my opinion,

This map does not belong in the final forge. The graphic quality of the maps coming out of the foundry these have been increasing, and with that, the minimum standard of graphic quality keeps getting raised. The minimum standard is not in the rules or some definite line, rather its an ever changing consensus of whats acceptable to be played on Conquer Club.

I must say that this particularly flavorless map is quite below that standard, for many of the reasons already posted. Quenching this map would be a step backwards in terms of graphical quality.

Why haven't I brought this up? Frankly because I didn't care. The Puget Sound? Talk about a micro-niche. Initially I saw the first draft and thought it was pretty basic and would never go anyway without some radical changes. Well the changes were less than radical, and here the map is, almost in live play.

I will also say that due to the high quality maps that are making their way into live play, and the high quality standard that has been established, it unfortunately excludes those who are not to experience with a graphics program yet still have as much heart and desire to make a map as anyone else. This is unfortunate, but its the case none the less.

Many map makers have cut their teeth in photoshop or image making in general by struggling through one or more map failures before their skills were up to snuff. Some have struggled enough with one map not to let it fail and gotten the map to a high level with constant refinement. Gimil, Cairnswisk, DiM and Johloh are good examples of cartographers who have pushed a map into play by the sheer dedication.

Take my Siege map for example. I certainly had some photo shop knowlege but had never made a map before. The first workable draft I thought was suitable was this:



I thought it was sufficient enough to play on. I was wrong, very wrong, and the foundry let me know. That map went through 51 drafts in almost as many pages to finally end up at this:



And the process was slow and piece by piece. Small changes and refinements. Seriously, look through the thread. My pushing my self and being pushed by others I created s nice map and gained an in credible amount of experience with map making and photoshop.

Perhaps the foundry did no push you enough, or you didn't push your self enough. Either way this map looks like its halfway done, or that its from 2006.

Stick with it and give it another 20 pages or so of comments and changes. Your last draft was on page 15, now take a look at the threads of quenched maps of other recent first time map makers, you will see there is no less than 30 pages there, often twice that, AoM, Eastern Front, Doodle Earth, etc.

So slow down , take a deep breath and keep working until you feel your map can stand proud with the others already in live play.

[RjBeals]

Thank you Mibi. You are very wise.

[wicked]

Mibi, thanks for your insight, but no one is asking you to comment on foundry procedures or process or evolution. Constructive comments on this specific map are welcome, but your post deserves it's own topic and is lost by posting it here.

p.s... I find all these comments hysterical from the same foundry that quenched Doodle Earth.

[Risky_Stud]

give me a break mibi! jelous much, i think so. map is fine