Solar System ERROR FIX v1.0.2 (w/ PSD files) [Quenched]

Bad Speler · Post by **Bad Speler** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:12 pm

Hey, welcome back! I hope to see this map up soon!

GreecePwns · Post by **GreecePwns** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:29 pm

I like this map, just one thing...are you going to do anything about the Pluto not being a planet incident?

maxdetjens · Post by **maxdetjens** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:48 pm

GreecePwns wrote:I like this map, just one thing...are you going to do anything about the Pluto not being a planet incident?

We had a brief discussion about this. Its a dangerous topic in that it could quickly diverge into a nerdy astronomy discussion (which I'm cool with) but this map thread isn't the place. So here's my nut shell answer. If your itching for more we should start a new thread in the off-topic section. IF you start that thread invite me. I would be happy to regale you all with a theses on what the IAU did, why its dumb, and why they will change.

This map was started after that IAU meeting where that was decided so I understood all that going in. My answer is that A.) the IAU thing will probably change at some point in the future because its a PR debacle. B.) a change in definition of a thing doesn't actual change the thing. Or in other words, Pluto is the same physical thing now as it was before. C.) This map doesn't refer to Pluto as a planet. It refers to it as a kuiper belt (or sometimes a trans neptunian or plutino) object. As such I don't what it is i would change. D.) This is an "interesting things in the solar system" map as apposed to a Planets-only map of some kind, so again i don't know what it is i would change.

Night Strike · Post by **Night Strike** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:02 pm

HE'S BACK!!!!!!

Congrats on getting the final forge while away!

Be sure to note the new size restrictions that went into effect while you were on vacation. I think you're fine, but the large map may need to be shrunk slightly.

You could change the word "surface" to "atmosphere" or something like that.

Personally, I think the plain font looks fine.

I think you can disregard the choke points comment because we discussed that in the past and you added many more routes.

It's the Great Red Spot, so don't change it.

maxdetjens · Post by **maxdetjens** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:53 pm

Night Strike wrote:Be sure to note the new size restrictions that went into effect while you were on vacation. I think you're fine, but the large map may need to be shrunk slightly.

Thanks that was a good read. I find it amazing that only 12% use the large size. you poor bastards. I was kinda being polite about developing it but didn't take it too seriously. now that i know how heavily used it is I'll make a concerted effort to ensure that its just as good.

this map: Large 800x600 and small 600x450.

The small then is above the "recommended" height but its the necessary dimension for it to be proportional to the large map. My appolgies to those who will have to scroll a bit but 350 isn't a possibility.

You could change the word "surface" to "atmosphere" or something like that.

Any one else with suggestions? I could also just not use any word. eg:
3 - Uranus & Moons
1 - Uranus

surface v. atmosphere v. nothing --- Roll call vote please!

jako · Post by **jako** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:00 am

thank god ur back, i was seriously worried this map would never get done.

now that ur back lets get it back on track, and i think u should just go with planet, rather than surface or atmosphere, as its pretty obvious that u would need all the planet and moons in order to get teh planet + moon bonus, plus, it would save some space.

Night Strike · Post by **Night Strike** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:08 pm

Ahh, I almost forgot. While you were gone, the mods decided that with all the new maps being made, the "country" xml tag is no longer accurate. All "country" tags need to be changed to "territory".

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:43 pm

Night Strike wrote:Ahh, I almost forgot. While you were gone, the mods decided that with all the new maps being made, the "country" xml tag is no longer accurate. All "country" tags need to be changed to "territory".

yup, i was gone too then, and got the problem with the xml checker (it says that your country doesn't excist but is in a continent or somethign like that)
so make sure you change it

maxdetjens · Post by **maxdetjens** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:21 pm

Nightstrike, Wisse; good looking out.

oaktown · Post by **oaktown** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:50 pm

Welcome back max... I'm looking forward to playing this.

maxdetjens wrote:In the mean time go watch some Babylon 5.

Actually, I watched the first season and it didn't do anything for me... I'm told it improved. Now I'm just twiddling my thumbs and making maps, as I wait 12 months between episodes of the new Battlestar Galactica. Loved it as an 8-year old, loving it now!

Which takes us right to the font in your map. I get where you're going with the font you've chosen - it has something of an early 1980s, kitschy, so-bad-it's-good TRON thing going on, and as a child of the 80s I like that. This would make for an absolutely fantastic theme for the map, and some elements work - the bright pastels for example.

My concern is that other elements of the map don't work with that theme, so it just makes the font look dated. The images of the planets are far brighter and cleaner than we saw in the Voyager photos or Sci-fi films 25 years ago, and the neon stripes don't fit with the art of the era. I'm not saying you should make the planets look crappier, but as you finish this up think about whether you want the map to look like Babylon 5 or Blake's 7.

maxdetjens · Post by **maxdetjens** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:01 am

So are you recommending i change the font? or the glowing lines? or both?
In the next update I'll be changing the lines. I hope that addresses your concern.

maxdetjens · Post by **maxdetjens** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:14 am

MAP TEST

67 Territories, 7 regions, 5 sub-regions, Alternating Jump Gate Bonus, Jump Gates Start with 3 Neutral Armies.

**** XML File ****

Changes:
- tweeked coordinates
- moved venues away from it's army circle
- fixed the droopy ern in "Southern Saturn"
- fattened the attack routes in the small map (fixed the pixilation as well)
- added some rounding shading to the Inner Planets and a few others
- brightened the attack lines in the asteroid belt
- matched the territory borders on the gas giants to blend better with the theme by matching them to the army circles
- made Pluto less button looking and more planet looking (or rather "dwarf planet" looking)
- cleaned up some pixilation on the jump gates in the small map
- drew a new asteroid belt.
- added a short JG descriptor in the sun
- replaced the & with + in the bonus list
- reworded the bonus list to remove "surface" and replace it with "planetary"
- replaced "country" with "territory" in the XML

Tasks Included in next update (THIS LIST IS UPDATED UNTIL THE NEXT VERSION)
- Eyeball the XML for errors
- Asteroid belt to me looks a bit too bright on the small map.
- Make the attack lines and army circles more opaque (whiter)
- Change sun text to "All Jump Gates [name format JG-XX] may attack each other." ... If there is room squeeze in a comment about the one ways.

Pixel Tweeks for next map
SMALL MAP:
- Eunoma family coordinate up 1 px - Bad Speler
- Vesta family up 1 px and left 1px - Bad Speler
- Eos family 1px to the right. - Bad Speler

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:13 pm

You need to lighten the army circles, and align the armies into them. Do that and you're pretty much finished. Also, can jumpgates attack eachother? If so, say on the map.

jako · Post by **jako** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:25 pm

unriggable wrote:You need to lighten the army circles, and align the armies into them. Do that and you're pretty much finished. Also, can jumpgates attack eachother? If so, say on the map.

if u read the text in the sun, it says so right there.

oaktown · Post by **oaktown** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:52 pm

glad you included the jump gate explanation. If you want to make it less wordy you could simply say "Jumpgates ('JG') may attack each other."

I think all of the changes you're making are good ones. My point about Blake's 7 vs. Babylon 5 was simply that when you add or alter an element of the map think about if you want to do it in an '80s style or something newer. Being consistent in your style will keep this map from having to undergo a dreaded "revamp" later (which I don't think it will).

maxdetjens · Post by **maxdetjens** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:18 pm

unriggable wrote:You need to lighten the army circles

The fill on the army circles are a transparent white. So by "lighten" do you mean make them more opaque (whiter) or make them more transparent (blacker). I was considering making them more opaque because i think it might make some of the dark army number colors pop a little more but in my experiments the army circles start to over power the map. When i make the circles more transparent the blue and the green army number colors are impossible to see.

There isn't a way to control the army number colors is there? What I wouldn't give to be able to control the colors.

unriggable wrote:and align the armies into them. Do that and you're pretty much finished.

Let me know which you find the most heinous and I might be able to adjust the circle graphic it's self to alleviate the issue. That invitation goes out to everyone.

unriggable wrote:Also, can jumpgates attack eachother? If so, say on the map.

Let me know if you'd like to see different text in the sun.

Bad Speler · Post by **Bad Speler** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:19 pm

Asteroid belt to me looks a bit too bright on the small map.

In th small map, move the Eunoma family coordinate up 1 px, Vesta family up 1 px and left 1px, and the Eos family 1px to the right.

Looks perfect otherwise.

maxdetjens · Post by **maxdetjens** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:26 pm

Bad Speler wrote:Asteroid belt to me looks a bit too bright on the small map.

I think you might be right about that. I'll try to dial it back some. Added to list

Bad Speler wrote:In th small map, move the Eunoma family coordinate up 1 px, Vesta family up 1 px and left 1px, and the Eos family 1px to the right.

wow. those last two are horrible. added to list

oaktown · Post by **oaktown** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:05 pm

i just saw the animation in your signature... very nice. What are the chances you can give us some twinkling stars on the final version? You'd be the first to complete an animated map.

maxdetjens · Post by **maxdetjens** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:25 pm

oaktown wrote:i just saw the animation in your signature... very nice. What are the chances you can give us some twinkling stars on the final version? You'd be the first to complete an animated map.

an ani gif map? Has that been tried before?

I could make the stars twinkle, the sun flare, and the atmospheres move.

but lets get everything else perfect first.

Gilligan · Post by **Gilligan** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:46 pm

Do you know how awesome that would be max?

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:01 pm

Hmm, I didn't see the sun this whole time. Thanks for pointing that out.

Anyways, I meant making them (army circles) slightly more opaque. Right now they are too dark grey.

oaktown · Post by **oaktown** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:24 pm

maxdetjens wrote:an ani gif map? Has that been tried before?

I could make the stars twinkle, the sun flare, and the atmospheres move.

but lets get everything else perfect first.

hasn't been done, but it's been talked about and is within the guidelines. I would caution against over-doing it... there's a lot going on with this map already, so subtlety would be in order.

But yeah, worry about everything else first.

edbeard · Post by **edbeard** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:40 pm

could you brighten the attack lines from jupiter's low orbit to great red spot and equatorial zone on the large map please?

maxdetjens · Post by **maxdetjens** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:43 pm

unriggable wrote:Anyways, I meant making them (army circles) slightly more opaque. Right now they are too dark grey.

edbeard wrote:could you brighten the attack lines from jupiter's low orbit to great red spot and equatorial zone on the large map please?

So I'll "white up" the lines and circles.