Logic dictates that there is a God!

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:17 am

AndyDufresne wrote:Here's a fancy little fun site that has some interesting reading for you all...

Top 10 Creation Stories

--Andy

Yeah I see your point.... since they are all religions other then Christianity!

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:06 am

AndyDufresne wrote:Here's a fancy little fun site that has some interesting reading for you all...

Top 10 Creation Stories

That site skipped the Raelian theory! The fact that we were all seeded by an intelligent creator. But the twist is that the creator was a race of aliens called the Elohiem.

Same theory, different designer.

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:08 am

just when you thought it was safe to go online....marik shows up.

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:13 am

Yes, muahahahahaha! I am The Shadow!

EDIT: Must... Correct... ARGH!!!!! STOP ME, BEFORE I RANT AGAIN!!!

jay_a2j wrote:If Johua saw the sun "stand still" for "about a day" this is what he saw. marik is IMPYING that scripture contadicts the orbit of the earth AROUND the sun. It does not. He is taking what he does not understand and incerts his own oppinion of "what must have happened". If God wanted to stop the rotation of the earth and not effect life on earth HE could do so. Marik claims that if God stopped the rotation of the earth God would be powerless to prevent destruction upon the earth. THUS he is limiting Gods power.

Wrong again dummy. I never said that if God stopped the rotation that he couldn't also stop the atmosphere's rotation.

What I said was that according to the passage he stopped the Earth's rotation. It never says "and thus he also stopped the winds and the clouds from their motion" so we can then assume that He didn't.

I never once said that he wasn't capable of such, I simply said that, in that one case, he didn't. Stop reinterpreting my words, they are meant to be taken quite literally in this case.

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:53 am

hmmmm there is alot of stuff not in the Bible...I guess they don't exist either...

Serial Killers

Big Mac's

Sports Illustrated Swimsuit addition

Just because it does not say "the atmosphere stood still" doesn't mean it didn't. And who knows maybe God stopped the rotation and allowed the atmosphere to continue moving. Its never happened (as seen by scientists) so they really can't say what would happen.

Reminds me of a childhood song...He's got the whole world...in his hands...

Pilate · Post by **Pilate** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:30 am

jay_a2j wrote:hmmmm there is alot of stuff not in the Bible...I guess they don't exist either...

Serial Killers

Big Mac's

Sports Illustrated Swimsuit addition

Just because it does not say "the atmosphere stood still" doesn't mean it didn't. And who knows maybe God stopped the rotation and allowed the atmosphere to continue moving. Its never happened (as seen by scientists) so they really can't say what would happen.

Reminds me of a childhood song...He's got the whole world...in his hands...

Or... GASP ... maybe they wrote that the sun stood still because THEY ACTUALLY THOUGHT THE SUN ROTATED AROUND THE EARTH.

It would have been seen by scientists. The ancient Greeks, Egyptians and Chinese kept astronomical records. They would have noticed the sun suddenly stopping. OR MAYBE GOD STOPPED THE SUN, PUT THEM INTO A HYPNOTIC STATE AND CHANGED THEIR RECORDS SO NO ONE WOULD NOTICE WHAT HE DID. Yeah, I think that's a reasonable explanation, assume that God fixed any discrepancy in my logic.

Pilate · Post by **Pilate** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:33 am

jay_a2j wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:Here's a fancy little fun site that has some interesting reading for you all...

Top 10 Creation Stories

--Andy

Yeah I see your point.... since they are all religions other then Christianity!

Did you even read the site? If the fundamentalist Christians want the public non-faith based schools to teach creationism, they have to teach all forms of itl, not just the judeo-christian one

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:53 am

Teach away!

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:00 pm

pilate065 wrote: " Or... GASP ... maybe they wrote that the sun stood still because THEY ACTUALLY THOUGHT THE SUN ROTATED AROUND THE EARTH. " <<<< This is possible although it does not mean scripture condraticts anything.

and he wrote...

"maybeyou are gasping at straws because YOU JUST DON'T WANT TO ADMIT IT'S WRONG. Sheesh"

ummm no. Its NOT wrong. Your or my speculation on scripture proves no one right or wrong. For hundreds of years people have tried to discredit the Bible...... and failed.

Pilate · Post by **Pilate** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:15 pm

jay_a2j wrote:pilate065 wrote: " Or... GASP ... maybe they wrote that the sun stood still because THEY ACTUALLY THOUGHT THE SUN ROTATED AROUND THE EARTH. " <<<< This is possible although it does not mean scripture condraticts anything.

and he wrote...

"maybeyou are gasping at straws because YOU JUST DON'T WANT TO ADMIT IT'S WRONG. Sheesh"

ummm no. Its NOT wrong. Your or my speculation on scripture proves no one right or wrong. For hundreds of years people have tried to discredit the Bible...... and failed.

Oh it's been wrong plenty of times. The thing is, when it is wrong, you blame it on "interpretation". Pretty convenient eh?

Actually, modern Christianity is based on the premise that the Jews misinterpreted their own scripture. So its okay for you to say that the Jews are wrong, but it's not okay for anyone else to say that you are wrong. Nice

Jolly Roger · Post by **Jolly Roger** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:31 pm

It is difficult to discredit anything without substantial evidence to the contrary but that doesn't make it true or untrue.

For instance, I could say "Last night, I saw a ghost." Now, if I believe I saw the ghost, there is very little one could say to make me believe otherwise since my belief is based on immediate personal experience. If you do not believe in ghosts (based on your immediate personal experience), there would be little I could say to convince you. However, believing in them or not believing in them has nothing to do with the fact of their existence or non-existence.

In short, you can choose to believe or not believe but that belief will never make it true.

Furthermore, with respect to the supernatural, I think logic has absolutely no application since you cannot prove a basic premise. You can consider the existence or non-existence of God, angels, etc. to be self-evident if you want but you cannot really prove them. For the most part, the claims that God exists appear to based on the claimants opinion that contrary arguments are not sufficient to explain creation (i.e., I don't believe Argument 1 and I don't believe Argument 2; therefore, I must accept Argument 3). In my view, if any theory on the supernatural or creation is simplified enough for our feeble minds to comprehend it, it's wrong.

Finally, with regard to bias, it appears that many who have posted have brought their preconceived notions to the table in this one. On both sides, it appears that people are disinterested in considering 1) that they're wrong and 2) that an opposing view may have some validity. When we see an opposing view posted here, perhaps we should spend more time considering its merits than simply trying to refute it.

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:35 pm

GHOSTS do not exit.... but I see your point.

dagreatbroomhead · Post by **dagreatbroomhead** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:39 pm

i see you very well thought out point, say for one part, this thread ins't for us to say "we all can be right" its for those of us who believe and not believe to share ideas, disscuss, argue and pretty much try to convert(not that i am trying to convert anyone to my non-religon religon, i just want people to see that there is a chance that god doesn't exist)

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:58 pm

dagreatbroomhead wrote:i see you very well thought out point, say for one part, this thread ins't for us to say "we all can be right" its for those of us who believe and not believe to share ideas, disscuss, argue and pretty much try to convert(not that i am trying to convert anyone to my non-religon religon, i just want people to see that there is a chance that god doesn't exist)

There is 0% chance God does not exist.

Phate · Post by **Phate** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:01 pm

That's right keep those eyes clamped shut.

How is it that Physics and Chemistry can carry on unhindered but Biology has always had to put up with these yapping dogs of ignorance?

johnnyrotten · Post by **johnnyrotten** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:50 pm

jay_a2j wrote:
dagreatbroomhead wrote:i see you very well thought out point, say for one part, this thread ins't for us to say "we all can be right" its for those of us who believe and not believe to share ideas, disscuss, argue and pretty much try to convert(not that i am trying to convert anyone to my non-religon religon, i just want people to see that there is a chance that god doesn't exist)

There is 0% chance God does not exist.

There is 0% chance you are not an idiot.

dagreatbroomhead · Post by **dagreatbroomhead** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:54 pm

i must agree with johnny on this one, you can't even observe that there is the possibility that god doesn't exist.

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:34 pm

No there is no chance God does not exist. And keep your insults to yourself or get your weight up first. Like I have said before I KNOW there is a God. This revelation comes to those who believe. Its kinda like when you believe, God reveals his existence to you. So if you do not believe I can see where you "see a chance that He doesn't exist" but go tell someone who doesn't know that He DOES exist. I bet my life on it. (would you bet your life that he doesn't exist?...cause thats what your doing)

johnnyrotten · Post by **johnnyrotten** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:38 pm

jay_a2j wrote:No there is no chance God does not exist. And keep your insults to yourself or get your weight up first. Like I have said before I KNOW there is a God. This revelation comes to those who believe. Its kinda like when you believe, God reveals his existence to you. So if you do not believe I can see where you "see a chance that He doesn't exist" but go tell someone who doesn't know that He DOES exist. I bet my life on it. (would you bet your life that he doesn't exist?...cause thats what your doing)

a) Yes I'd bet my life he doesn't exist. b) Tell us more about said 'revelation'. I'm sure it's a riveting story.

Pilate · Post by **Pilate** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:40 pm

jay, you should stop. You are making your faith look bad

Even though YOU are 100% sure that god exists, you can not expect other people to share your views. Especially when your claims are based purely on faith.

I can be 100% sure that there is a 0% chance that there are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. That doesn't mean I can justify debating that point based purely on faith and on shaky evidence.

Oh wait...

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:06 pm

I could sit here all day and give you incident after incident where God has shown to me that He is there. But to an unbeliever with a hard heart it would mean nothing. The knowledge of God is there but it must start with a "mustard seed" of faith. And once you get to know God, you'll ask yourself, "How did I ever live without Him?".

As for my faith, you don't know it. So how can you say it looks bad or good? Am I perfect? Not by a long shot. Am I the best at talking to others about God? Undoubtedly not. But I do know my creator and He does exist. My life is devoted to getting others to know Him too.

Jesus said, "You will be persecuted because of me" and thats ok. For what God has done for me I owe Him my life.

Pilate · Post by **Pilate** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:09 pm

jay_a2j wrote:I could sit here all day and give you incident after incident where God has shown to me that He is there. But to an unbeliever with a hard heart it would mean nothing. The knowledge of God is there but it must start with a "mustard seed" of faith. And once you get to know God, you'll ask yourself, "How did I ever live without Him?".

As for my faith, you don't know it. So how can you say it looks bad or good? Am I perfect? Not by a long shot. Am I the best at talking to others about God? Undoubtedly not. But I do know my creator and He does exist. My life is devoted to getting others to know Him too.

Jesus said, "You will be persecuted because of me" and thats ok. For what God has done for me I owe Him my life.

I know what Christianity is, and you are making Christians look very bad. Jesus also criticized the Pharisees for being blind. Too bad you don't understand that teaching.

Oh, and getting criticized for faulty logic in an internet forum does not qualify as persecution.

dagreatbroomhead · Post by **dagreatbroomhead** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:22 pm

pilate065 wrote:Oh, and getting criticized for faulty logic in an internet forum does not qualify as persecution.

yeah, i am going to have to agree with that, it makes it seem like we nail you to a cross or something...

P.S. i am sorry, really bad joke, kinda went over the line there(if you believe)

Truman · Post by **Truman** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:17 pm

Jay, I bet you'd be a great poster to http://www.jude3.org Great Christian debating website to go to, and many smart people join. It's not just about all the "I believe this, what do you believe?" crap. There are serious discussions that go on in there. It also happens to be the place I was talking about where I went to debate those two atheists I spoke of earlier.

--Truman

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:45 pm

Thanks Truman, maybe I'll see you around there.

Logic dictates that there is a God!

Does God exist?