Conquer Club

betiko wrote:

DoomYoshi wrote:I don't see what the contradiction is.

elaborate then. why did you say on day 2 or 3 there is always a massclaim but you're not really keen to get 2 more claims today? "especially since we got the godfather". tell me more about this. why would we risk more now?

we don't know if mafia has fakeclaims, so i wouldn't mind a few nameclaims at least.

A massclaim doesn't mean that on day 1 we claim a few roles, then on day 2 a few more and then finish off on day 3. It isn't a stepwise solution. A massclaim is an "all-or-nothing" approach. The point of a massclaim is that so many claims come at once, that the mafia can not fakeclaim anything, except VT.

The way the post-fakeclaim works is that a) make mathematically certain that the scum couldn't of claimed anything else and b) kill all VTs unitl you find scum.

Right now, the only player dead is a godfather. Which means if there are 1 or 2 scum left, and 10-11 VTs left (probably a bit less) we have the lowest chance for this strategy to work. If there are 4 VTs left and 3 scum, you have them nailed.

So, what is your alleged contradiction?

Sorry I vanished for a bit.
This game feels like rather meta, it seems as though we are writing a book on chess theory during a chess game.
If it leads to a valid strategy that we can stick to, that's fine.
As I've said, I'm inexperienced in this setup, to be absolutely clear, what would be the wiser course of action at this point in lieu of a strong case appearing?

1.Focus on the scummier non-claimed so we can start filling in the blanks for possible variables, hopefully getting scum to claim something impossible early on.

or

2.Lynch one of the scummier claimed VTs, narrowing the margin for error later on, and keeping possible power roles out of the lime-light for now.

or we could mass-claim and make sure that we pick off the already claimed ones first. im for a mass-claim. im happy to go first, but i dont want to stupidly claim if no one else is going to do it. we can gain a lot of info from it.

Ok, let's vote then.

Everyone pick

a) massclaim
b) mass name claim only
c) keep going as we are.

I am fine with any option. After thinking, I don't see how a massclaim will hurt, but I don't think it will help all that much at this point either. Either way, I suggest lynching Gillipig today.

it could help down the line, and just give us all some info. lets name-claim for now so we know who we are dealing with, and see how tonight goes before we decide anything

i'm fine with a nameclaim only for now

betiko wrote:i'm fine with a nameclaim only for now

Me too.

I feel like things have stalled somewhat so I guess a mass name claim could help.

Makes no sense to me.

What useful information is gained from claiming names if you're not claiming roles anyway?

Dukasaur wrote:Makes no sense to me.

What useful information is gained from claiming names if you're not claiming roles anyway?

I have to agree with this.. We have already proven name claiming will do us not a ton of good since we have claimed VT's who are noble gases and non noble gases.. I seriously doubt that (if we are all telling the truth) that there isn't any strong patterns I can think up. So... Wouldn't a massclaim be more affective?

Anyhow I think lynching either betiko or gillipig though, if we decide again massclaim. Lynching a VT is a whole lot better than lynching an unknown at this point.. (God that's evil to do irl though )

NoSurvivors wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:Makes no sense to me.

What useful information is gained from claiming names if you're not claiming roles anyway?

I have to agree with this.. We have already proven name claiming will do us not a ton of good since we have claimed VT's who are noble gases and non noble gases.. I seriously doubt that (if we are all telling the truth) that there isn't any strong patterns I can think up. So... Wouldn't a massclaim be more affective?

Anyhow I think lynching either betiko or gillipig though, if we decide again massclaim. Lynching a VT is a whole lot better than lynching an unknown at this point.. (God that's evil to do irl though )

why wouldn't you and saf be lynchable then? who said you guys are cleared?
about the noble gas thing well if we are all telling the truth it gives us more info about the setting. You are skimming or what? if there are 8 VTs like i think how can they all be noble gases?
also nameclaiming could help us if the goon and the sk have no nameclaim and they pick someone else's element. if we have twice the same element we are 100% sure we caught one. given that we are 12 and and 2 anti town left most likely

Dukasaur wrote:Makes no sense to me.

What useful information is gained from claiming names if you're not claiming roles anyway?

interesting. so if you think it could brng nothing useful to town, how would it bring more to antitown? because basically what you are implying if i understand well is that we would have more to lose and less to gain.

betiko wrote:

NoSurvivors wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:Makes no sense to me.

What useful information is gained from claiming names if you're not claiming roles anyway?

I have to agree with this.. We have already proven name claiming will do us not a ton of good since we have claimed VT's who are noble gases and non noble gases.. I seriously doubt that (if we are all telling the truth) that there isn't any strong patterns I can think up. So... Wouldn't a massclaim be more affective?

Anyhow I think lynching either betiko or gillipig though, if we decide again massclaim. Lynching a VT is a whole lot better than lynching an unknown at this point.. (God that's evil to do irl though )

why wouldn't you and saf be lynchable then? who said you guys are cleared?
about the noble gas thing well if we are all telling the truth it gives us more info about the setting. You are skimming or what? if there are 8 VTs like i think how can they all be noble gases?
also nameclaiming could help us if the goon and the sk have no nameclaim and they pick someone else's element. if we have twice the same element we are 100% sure we caught one. given that we are 12 and and 2 anti town left most likely

Ahhhh but then how do we know that the scum will go last? (and no im not skimming i just read that it was probably randomized.. and there are 7 noble gases... how do you know there are 8 VTs? o_o and no me and saf arent cleared, we just seem to be the less scummish VT claims.. if helping the town is lynching me, im good to go.

NoS, no one is clear. stop saying that.
betiko, you are my best option for a lynch.
ill go first then with the name-claiming. Im argon, Vt

well i don't know much about chemistry so i thought the noble gases were the 6 orange ones on the side?
just went on wikipedia to confirm and it's what I said they are 6 not 7. Anyway, to tell the truth i think it's highly unlikely that you are not telling the truth as you stepped up first to say that VTs were were not only noble gases, you put yourself kind of on the execution line telling this on a day 1. But you have to admit, as you seem to be the only other VT non noble gas that given our nameclaims we had to tell it quite soon because the more we waited the more it would look suspicious.
I personally think it's more likely that saf and gillipig are telling the truth. I'm just wondering how sam has setup all this and if it wouldn't make it too easy giving all noble gases to VTs.
I really would like to test the nameclaim thing.
Regarding the fact of getting lynched: how could it help town to lynch you if you are a VT and the game has almost only VTs instead of getting a better lead??

ok vodean got fastposted there.

still alive, unclaimed:
Jonty125
DoomYoshi
sempaispellcheck
thehippo8
Dukasaur
thechuck51
/

still alive, unproven claims (by order of claims):
no survivors: selenium (Se), VT (day 1)
betiko: sulfur (S), VT (day 1)
safariguy: xenon (Xe), VT (day 1)
gillipig: helium (He), VT (day 2)
vodean: Argon (Ar), VT (day 2)

doom, you go next.

[quote="vodean"]NoS, no one is clear. stop saying that./quote]

Where did I say anyone was cleared?

and betiko-- perhaps youre right, I just found the people doing the most accusing/defending of themselves are you and him.. what Ive found is that one of the arguing people are usually scum.. thats all. I would too like to know the setup for the game as itd make things a lot easier x.x

vodean wrote:doom, you go next.

The only way to avoid cheating is to have people from this point claim in the order set out by Betiko ... so that means it is jonty next and Doom after jonty. Fos Vode.

thehippo8 wrote:

vodean wrote:doom, you go next.

The only way to avoid cheating is to have people from this point claim in the order set out by Betiko ... so that means it is jonty next and Doom after jonty. Fos Vode.

it's the order from the player list in the OP where I took it from(removing the people that claimed). I'm fine doing it that way. people can nameclaim or fullclaim as they want but i'd rather have noble gases confirming if they are VTs, because the VTs determine the setup.

betiko wrote:

thehippo8 wrote:

vodean wrote:doom, you go next.

The only way to avoid cheating is to have people from this point claim in the order set out by Betiko ... so that means it is jonty next and Doom after jonty. Fos Vode.

it's the order from the player list in the OP where I took it from(removing the people that claimed). I'm fine doing it that way. people can nameclaim or fullclaim as they want but i'd rather have noble gases confirming if they are VTs, because the VTs determine the setup.

How many VT's are the max? 8?

10 is the max

NoSurvivors wrote:

betiko wrote:

thehippo8 wrote:

vodean wrote:doom, you go next.

The only way to avoid cheating is to have people from this point claim in the order set out by Betiko ... so that means it is jonty next and Doom after jonty. Fos Vode.

it's the order from the player list in the OP where I took it from(removing the people that claimed). I'm fine doing it that way. people can nameclaim or fullclaim as they want but i'd rather have noble gases confirming if they are VTs, because the VTs determine the setup.

How many VT's are the max? 8?

no max would be 10, meaning there are no power roles (T=7). but I think that the other 2 non noble gas would ve said something by now..
I still think T=5 is the most likely.
T=6 would mean no serial killer, the goon got roleblocked, the godfather got viged which is not possible cause there would be only 1 power role.
T=4 and T=3 are not possible cause have no godfather
T=2 means 5VTs... which would mean that we already have them all claimed if everyone is telling the truth. and 5 power roles!
T=1 means we still have 3 anti town left, 6 power roles and only 3 VTs total (so 2 are not telling the truth)
T=0 means 7 power roles, 3 VTs and 2 anti town left. so basically if we have a new VT claim we can cross out this one.

betiko wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:Makes no sense to me.

What useful information is gained from claiming names if you're not claiming roles anyway?

interesting. so if you think it could brng nothing useful to town, how would it bring more to antitown? because basically what you are implying if i understand well is that we would have more to lose and less to gain.

I am implying nothing.

You're assuming if I ask a question that it must be rhetorical, and that there must be some hidden implication. There isn't; it's just a question. This is my fourth mafia game, and I didn't win any of the previous three, so I'm just figuring things out as I go along.

I can see what use there is in claiming roles, and I see what use there is in claiming nothing at all, but I honestly don't know what use there is in a compromise measure. What will we know from a name claim that we don't already know? It's my question, and it is NOT rhetorical, but really a question.

Vote Count, Day 2.6

Betiko - (1) Vodean, L-6
thehippo8 - (1) Betiko L-6
Gillipig - (5) sempaispellcheck, DoomYoshi, Jonty125, Dukasaur, safariguy5 L-2

Not Voting - (5) NoSurvivors, Gillipig, thechuck51, /, thehippo8,

To make gameplay easier for players, the player(s) closest to lynch at the time of vote count will be in red bold

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline for Day 2 is 10 PM EST, October 25th. That's 4 days from now.