Double Fanucci Mafia (4/14) Endgame

[virus90]

of the people with big interest in - hotshot, NoS and Wing. the case on wing is the one i like best. only one at this point i would consider voting.
as for my other suspects: Streaker and IB im starting to shift more towards IB.

Im leaving for a weekend. having the biggest relay race of the world then biggest student party of europe and monday national holiday - kingsday. the day we go all out orange throughout the Netherlands and every city is turned into 1 big festival. you should look it up; its a crazy dutch tradition. and a big party, if you ever go to the netherlands try to be there with kingsday.

anyway ill be back way before the deadline so should be ok.

grtz

[strike wolf]

Yeah. .. his statement directly implies 3rd party or second mafia faction imo.

While this talk is interesting, we should move away from him today.

I'd rather us focus on strike hotshot, maybe wing.

If ya want something from me. Stop ignoring my question.

[strike wolf]

As far as other cases beyond Wing:

1. Streaker-his last few comments suggest knowledge of town's win condition. This is a big town tell. I won't say it proves him town as he did not specifically say anything that proves he knows the town win condition but for me it was enough of a town tell that I would not consider voting him at the moment.

2. Hotshot-I am getting more of a town read from him now. He has been reasonably active and aggressively pushing the IB case.

3. NoS-As Storr and Streaker have both noted, he seems to have a different win condition from the one they were given and the one that I was given. This could be a scum slip and I am not sure I agree with Storr that we should ignore it to go into other cases.

4. IB-I would have to reread. He hasn't done too much that has really stood out to me on my first read through.

[StorrZerg]

I asked a question Storr. Do you want to acknowledge it?

I'll acknowledge it. It's something that I'm going to bring up.

[StorrZerg]

Fyi, people look at the case hotshot is making on Ib. Then read IB posting history.

It's a round case going into IBs square posting history

[strike wolf]

I forgot. Storr lives in a fairy land where the game goes at his pace. But fine if no other reason than to just mess with you. The point of my question is this. You like to use meta. I know, I know enough of your meta to have seen this. Your case on me revolved around me not throwing around my vote and thus "sitting on the side lines". If you knew anything about my meta than you should know that as town, mafia or third party, I dont throw my vote around much. Conclusion: Your case was shit.

To expand, I have been throwing my voice oit there all day except for the two or so days, I was absent due to illness. Just because I havent voted for every case does not mean I am not contributing.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Vote Count (No guarantee of accuracy - Blue is a joke vote, lighter blue is an active joke vote)

Army of GOD (0) - StorrZerg, virus90
rishaed (0) - Hotshot53, Iron Butterfly, strikewolf Virus Storr,
WingCmdr (4) - Wing Mtam Mets, Storr, Tails, Rishaed, Streaker, Strike, NoS
TeeGee (0) - Streaker Tails
metsfanmax (0) - mtamburini Streaker, NoS
Streaker (2) - metsfanmax, TeeGee Strikewolf Virus,Wing
StorrZerg (1)- NoSurvivors, Tails Hotshot Tails, NoS
virus90 (0) - rishaed
IronButterfly (1) - Tails Hotshot
Hotshot (3) - Mtam, NoS, Storr AoG, Wing, Storr, Mets, IB, Streaker
Mtam (0) - Rishaed
NoS (2) - Rishaed, IB, Storr, Streaker, Wing, Mtam
StrikeWolf (1) - Storr

Points of Note - Storr, Streaker, NoS, Wing, Rishaed are the main swing voters by my count.
Rishaed has been at the start of 3 votes, Mtam, NoS and finally Wing. Streaker has followed him on two.
There is a substantial amount of information here that will have meaning after the first night and onwards

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Number of posts per player

1. Storrzerg - iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
2. HotShot53 - iiiiiiiiiiiii
3. Iron Butterfly - iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
4. WingCmdr Ginkapo - iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
5. Streaker - iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
6. mtamburini - iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
7. virus90 - iiiiii
8. strike wolf - iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
9. metsfanmax - iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
10. NoSurvivors - iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
11. Army of GOD - iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
12. TeeGee - ii
13. TA1LGUNN3R - iiiiiiiiiii
14. rishaed - iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

Da Feck Storr!

This was TeeGee's last post. Thinking about it, is it not a bit odd that he popped up at the moment that I made a joke at his expense? Defended the scum joke, then disappeared again.

Bets on TeeGee providing the Hammer?

That won't happen as I am not convinced anyone is mafia just yet... and from playing a couple of other games I gathered that's a scummy thing to do

[NoSurvivors]

Could be nothing, that's why I'm not sure.
It's just that in most (if not all) games I played all victory conditions are exact copies for all players.

He said 'I win when when town is last faction standing'. It is completely different from what I would have expected, because my victory condition is formulated quite differently... Like I said, not sure what to make of it. But I consider it important enough to bring out as it could indicate he is third party.

Massclaim on D1 with a closed setup and an infinite number of flavour possibilities. Don't see how that could work.

It was worded as "only remaining faction". It does in fact say faction, but that is all I am going to say because quoting it directly is a mod kill (which is why I worded it differently the first time).

[HotShot53]

Could be nothing, that's why I'm not sure.
It's just that in most (if not all) games I played all victory conditions are exact copies for all players.

He said 'I win when when town is last faction standing'. It is completely different from what I would have expected, because my victory condition is formulated quite differently... Like I said, not sure what to make of it. But I consider it important enough to bring out as it could indicate he is third party.

Massclaim on D1 with a closed setup and an infinite number of flavour possibilities. Don't see how that could work.

It was worded as "only remaining faction". It does in fact say faction, but that is all I am going to say because quoting it directly is a mod kill (which is why I worded it differently the first time).

Well, you are obviously not the same kind of town as the rest of us... has anyone seen a third party or scum doc? Or is NoS not a doc at all?

[Iron Butterfly]

As far as other cases beyond Wing:

1. Streaker-his last few comments suggest knowledge of town's win condition. This is a big town tell. I won't say it proves him town as he did not specifically say anything that proves he knows the town win condition but for me it was enough of a town tell that I would not consider voting him at the moment.

2. Hotshot-I am getting more of a town read from him now. He has been reasonably active and aggressively pushing the IB case.

3. NoS-As Storr and Streaker have both noted, he seems to have a different win condition from the one they were given and the one that I was given. This could be a scum slip and I am not sure I agree with Storr that we should ignore it to go into other cases.

4. IB-I would have to reread. He hasn't done too much that has really stood out to me on my first read through.

What do you consider standing out Strike? Actually asking relevant questions? Picking up on perceived scum behavior? Are you saying that starting the ball rolling on NOS and having him claim does not stand out. Just asking.
I'm getting tired of this useless argument that I have somehow been equivalent to wallpaper this entire game.

Talking of reads. Tailgunner has offered crap. He has this stand off with Storr and lectures us about why mafia sucks with a bullet point list and has pretty much lived up to his list. He is now been MIA trough some of the most important Dayone action. IE the vote on Hotshot, which changed to NOS and forced a claim. Nada, nothing zilch. Does not seem to concern Hotshot or Strike.

[Iron Butterfly]

Could be nothing, that's why I'm not sure.
It's just that in most (if not all) games I played all victory conditions are exact copies for all players.

He said 'I win when when town is last faction standing'. It is completely different from what I would have expected, because my victory condition is formulated quite differently... Like I said, not sure what to make of it. But I consider it important enough to bring out as it could indicate he is third party.

Massclaim on D1 with a closed setup and an infinite number of flavour possibilities. Don't see how that could work.

It was worded as "only remaining faction". It does in fact say faction, but that is all I am going to say because quoting it directly is a mod kill (which is why I worded it differently the first time).

Well, you are obviously not the same kind of town as the rest of us... has anyone seen a third party or scum doc? Or is NoS not a doc at all?

Breaking Bad Mafia. Third Party Sal- the Lawyer- He was a Doc. Drove us insane trying to decide weather to lynch him or not.

[strike wolf]

I have seen the truth and the truth is unvote Vote NoS.. Its not just the difference in win condition. Its the kind of apologetic/trying not to upset tone he has had. This could be a town tone true but like I said earlier, town is more likely to get stubborn when called out. Its the natural feeling of "Im town, I am telling what I see is the truth so my word holds weight" and it is something that is difdicult to fake for mafia. Wing and Hotshot have shown glimpses of it and I am coming around to them being town in part because of this. NoS has not.

As far as can there be a scum doc? Yes it didnt used to be compleyely uncommon when there was a second killing faction and/or town had a high killing chance. Third party not so much. Their protective abilities usually focus on self-preservation. A 3p doc would point to a 3p faction more than individual survivors. An exception would be Saul Goodman in Breaking Bad.

Fped: Lol.

[NoSurvivors]

I have seen the truth and the truth is unvote Vote NoS.. Its not just the difference in win condition. Its the kind of apologetic/trying not to upset tone he has had. This could be a town tone true but like I said earlier, town is more likely to get stubborn when called out. Its the natural feeling of "Im town, I am telling what I see is the truth so my word holds weight" and it is something that is difdicult to fake for mafia. Wing and Hotshot have shown glimpses of it and I am coming around to them being town in part because of this. NoS has not.

As far as can there be a scum doc? Yes it didnt used to be compleyely uncommon when there was a second killing faction and/or town had a high killing chance. Third party not so much. Their protective abilities usually focus on self-preservation. A 3p doc would point to a 3p faction more than individual survivors. An exception would be Saul Goodman in Breaking Bad.

Fped: Lol.

Looks like scum is trying to lynch the doc so they don't have to do it in the night, lol

[Army of GOD]

strike, I understand what you're saying, but what do you make of no one counter claiming NoS? If you still think he's scum, that means (not tying to WIFOM, but these are the only logical conclusions I can think of) (a) you think there aren't any town docs and (b) the real town doc is keeping quiet, maybe because they don't want to out themselves.


just asking from an experience standpoint, but how many times does (b) happen in games? (the doc doesn't counter claim this early to make sure they don't give themselves up to the mafia so quickly)

[NoSurvivors]

strike, I understand what you're saying, but what do you make of no one counter claiming NoS? If you still think he's scum, that means (not tying to WIFOM, but these are the only logical conclusions I can think of) (a) you think there aren't any town docs and (b) the real town doc is keeping quiet, maybe because they don't want to out themselves.


just asking from an experience standpoint, but how many times does (b) happen in games? (the doc doesn't counter claim this early to make sure they don't give themselves up to the mafia so quickly)

Not the most experienced player, but I believe the logic of getting 1 of the limited number of mafia members for one townie (even if it is the doc) would be worth it for town, based on sheer size of the game and the amount of townies there likely are.

[Army of GOD]

strike, I understand what you're saying, but what do you make of no one counter claiming NoS? If you still think he's scum, that means (not tying to WIFOM, but these are the only logical conclusions I can think of) (a) you think there aren't any town docs and (b) the real town doc is keeping quiet, maybe because they don't want to out themselves.


just asking from an experience standpoint, but how many times does (b) happen in games? (the doc doesn't counter claim this early to make sure they don't give themselves up to the mafia so quickly)

Not the most experienced player, but I believe the logic of getting 1 of the limited number of mafia members for one townie (even if it is the doc) would be worth it for town, based on sheer size of the game and the amount of townies there likely are.

I agree, but it depends solely on the doc realizing this.


but anyway, this is why I'm confused on strike's vote and why I think he's being pretty damn scummy voting you despite no one counter claiming.

[Army of GOD]

to add on to that, I think the whole strike vs. storr thing could be a scum ploy to gain town cred if one of them gets knocked off, but that's some tin foil hat shit

[DoomYoshi]

Prod to both TGs forthcoming.

[HotShot53]

So... how likely is it that DY gave different win conditions to different members of town? I am very cautious about lynching a claimed doc... but I've not seen different win conditions before, and NoS definitely has a different one from me and others, so maybe there is no doc and he was given it as a safe fake claim? Or could be more than one mafia factions, and he is a real doc for one of them.

Also note that IB had no idea why streaker was questioning the role claim... when it should have been obvious to anyone with the town win condition. So I wouldn't be surprised if there are two scum factions, and IB is in the other one.

[Iron Butterfly]

So... how likely is it that DY gave different win conditions to different members of town? I am very cautious about lynching a claimed doc... but I've not seen different win conditions before, and NoS definitely has a different one from me and others, so maybe there is no doc and he was given it as a safe fake claim? Or could be more than one mafia factions, and he is a real doc for one of them.

Also note that IB had no idea why streaker was questioning the role claim... when it should have been obvious to anyone with the town win condition. So I wouldn't be surprised if there are two scum factions, and IB is in the other one.

Ohh me again. Tell you what instead of speaking in generalities make a case against me.

[Metsfanmax]

So... how likely is it that DY gave different win conditions to different members of town? I am very cautious about lynching a claimed doc... but I've not seen different win conditions before, and NoS definitely has a different one from me and others, so maybe there is no doc and he was given it as a safe fake claim? Or could be more than one mafia factions, and he is a real doc for one of them.

Also note that IB had no idea why streaker was questioning the role claim... when it should have been obvious to anyone with the town win condition. So I wouldn't be surprised if there are two scum factions, and IB is in the other one.

Ugh. Not sure if NoS is scum or not, but I hate these situations where we might catch someone because of the very type of obvious situation the rules about claiming are intended to avoid.

[Iron Butterfly]

[quote="HotShot53"]So... how likely is it that DY gave different win conditions to different members of town? I am very cautious about lynching a claimed doc... but I've not seen different win conditions before, and NoS definitely has a different one from me and others, so maybe there is no doc and he was given it as a safe fake claim? Or could be more than one mafia factions, and he is a real doc for one of them.

...I can agree with caution on lynching a claimed doc.

Tell us how you know what others players win conditions are besides yours?

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

On the subject of role descriptions, my one is written from the viewpoint of my character. As others have said its very different style to NoS's. However, what I would say, is that a Doc winning when his patients are no longer under threat from anyone sounds reasonable as the viewpoint of the doc.

Not the most experienced player, but I believe the logic of getting 1 of the limited number of mafia members for one townie (even if it is the doc) would be worth it for town, based on sheer size of the game and the amount of townies there likely are.

Page 14:

If there is another doc out there, you should claim now. I believe trading 1 doc for 1 mafia is good.

And a couple of posts later he retracted that statement due to my point about not knowing how many docs we have.

I take back what I said about another doc claiming.

A bit odd that NoS is still throwing it out there.

[Streaker]

So... how likely is it that DY gave different win conditions to different members of town? I am very cautious about lynching a claimed doc... but I've not seen different win conditions before, and NoS definitely has a different one from me and others, so maybe there is no doc and he was given it as a safe fake claim? Or could be more than one mafia factions, and he is a real doc for one of them.

...I can agree with caution on lynching a claimed doc.

Tell us how you know what others players win conditions are besides yours?

Ofcourse we have to be carefull, but undeniably there is still something fishy.

I called it out to see how people react, and now I can be certain because of a number of players confirming it's different. It doesn't really advance town position and we should move away from him on D1 because of the possibility that EVERYONE'S wincon is different.

I backed off my statement because I didn't pause to consider the 'possibly unbalanced' setup.

Vote Count (No guarantee of accuracy - Blue is a joke vote, lighter blue is an active joke vote)

Army of GOD (0) - StorrZerg, virus90
rishaed (0) - Hotshot53, Iron Butterfly, strikewolf Virus Storr,
WingCmdr (4) - Wing Mtam Mets, Storr, Tails, Rishaed, Streaker, Strike, NoS
TeeGee (0) - Streaker Tails
metsfanmax (0) - mtamburini Streaker, NoS
Streaker (2) - metsfanmax, TeeGee Strikewolf Virus,Wing
StorrZerg (1)- NoSurvivors, Tails Hotshot Tails, NoS
virus90 (0) - rishaed
IronButterfly (1) - Tails Hotshot
Hotshot (3) - Mtam, NoS, Storr AoG, Wing, Storr, Mets, IB, Streaker
Mtam (0) - Rishaed
NoS (2) - Rishaed, IB, Storr, Streaker, Wing, Mtam
StrikeWolf (1) - Storr

Points of Note - Storr, Streaker, NoS, Wing, Rishaed are the main swing voters by my count.
Rishaed has been at the start of 3 votes, Mtam, NoS and finally Wing. Streaker has followed him on two.
There is a substantial amount of information here that will have meaning after the first night and onwards

Odd statement calling out Storr, myself, Nos, Rishaed and yourself for swinning votes. What do you hope to achieve with this? Besides the fact that it is perfectly acceptable on D1 (in a game this size) to feel out the waters. A lot of players are calling others out, but are not advancing pressure because they do not vote. If anything, you should be calling out the players who haven't placed vote yet.