Civilization Mafia - Town Victory!

[nagerous]

Apologies I haven't had time to review the thread properly like I said I would due to being snowed by work and social.

The case against hot shot is compelling but maybe I don't think he would shoot himself in the foot in the manner that he did in the thread in not backing the benga lynch when it seemed that hanging was likely.

I would like to him but I would also not be surprised if there was scum on this wagon already trying to push an early mid lynch. None of the people on this current wagon do I have much trust in right now... strike's unvote at the time when the momentum looked like it might shift from benga and then credit grab when he was in fact lynched has to be viewed as suspicious.

For now I will vote aage for being far too inactive and avoiding the whole benga discussion during day one

[Ragian]

I like what Nag just posted in relation to the hotshot wagon. I don't agree on the aage vote, though. Even despite aage's lack of participation. Seems weird to look for inactives when an actual case is on the block (whether you like the case or not).

Following this on the phone, I'm not sure if hotshot has responded to the accusations or not yet?

[nagerous]

. He is inactive and hasn't contributed anything helpful - his last two posts said nothing and he completely avoided the benga issue with no opinion said either way.

I would just rather hear more from him and voted to force this issue rather than allow the inactivity to go unnnoticed. waiting to hear from hotshot still - meant to say 'I would like to hear from him' in my last post but my stream of thought apparently didn't spell that out

[HotShot53]

Well, I was obviously wrong about benga... I guess I gave him too much benefit of the doubt, thinking that he was also confused why someone would claim doc with the current setup, thus his question... and when later posts showed that he really didn't know what was going on, his claim of third party seemed a reasonable explanation for it, especially since he claimed it early like most third parties do when they feel some pressure.

I know my defending him looks bad after his flip... but anyone who has played scum when I am scum also knows I'm more likely to throw a fellow scum under the bus than defend them, especially on day 1 when it's pretty obvious that's where the lynch is going.

[dakky21]

but anyone who has played scum when I am scum also knows I'm more likely to throw a fellow scum under the bus than defend them

We may know or not know it, but it still looks like you tried to defend him to the very end.

[Ragian]

So what do you think of the people voting for you, hotshot?

[Fircoal]

I know my defending him looks bad after his flip... but anyone who has played scum when I am scum also knows I'm more likely to throw a fellow scum under the bus than defend them, especially on day 1 when it's pretty obvious that's where the lynch is going.

Something interesting to note is that I and HotShot were both scum in Indigo Mafia, and in that game Hotshot didn't try to defend me, but he also didn't vote me. He was one of the very few at the end of the day who pretty much left their vote open until the very last moment. So him defending benga is a bit out of character but I also don't think he would throw a scum under the bus like he says he would. So that makes this a half-truth, or more importantly a half-lie. My question is, why lie?

[Skoffin]

My view of hotshot is that he is rather noncommittal, I don't think he would throw a partner under the bus but I don't think he would valiantly defend either; more half defend, really. However I did feel he somewhat buddied in the last game. As such I don't think his meta is of any use here, as his defence of Benga can go either way.

There were a few people that didn't really have a reaction to the benga voting at all, and I think that would be a good place to look. Meanwhile, could we get a vote count?

[ga7]

Hrrm seems I can't escape another full reread, but I kinda agree that people having been fully noncommital about benga feel scummier than halfass defense. That and the quick wagon on Hotshot doesn't give me much confidence either.
Also I'm a bit surprised about the one NK, I was still expecting a mafia + SK in a game of this size? Now I'm wondering if the terrible consequences of war prevented someone to do their kill

[Minister Masket]

Vote Count

dakky21 - 0
madmitch - 0
ga7 -
skoffin - 0
strike wolf - 0
Samlen - 0
TimWoodbury - 0
Ragian - 0
nagerous - 0
Fircoal - 0
Skittles - 0
aage - 1 (nagerous)
HotShot53 - 3 (strike, Skittles, DJfireside)
Djfireside - 0

On today (Thu) it takes 11 to lynch!

Also I'm a bit surprised about the one NK, I was still expecting a mafia + SK in a game of this size?

You mean like this?

[madmitch]

I am wondering who built what last night and the next night should be interesting,I am not seeing the case on H.S. but I agree with Nag about Aage been so quiet so I will also vote Aage to see if he will respond

[ga7]

Upon rereading I gotta say Aage is the only player who avoided all discussion about benga.
The only 2 relevant posts from him are something that I thought at first was fishing but maybe not at all:

I am just interested how many of you have actually played civ, cause from what I read here most of you just don't understand references to the game.

There are no uncivilized nations in game, there are nations and there are barbarians.

@stike wolf, so you are saying all of us got the same pm with same roles?

Well also the main point of Civ is to take out all of the other civs or win by being more scientific/cultural/religious. It could be that some of our civs view some of the other civs as 'uncivilized.' Like the romans could view norway as uncivilized for basically being a bunch of vikings.

Came up this almost immediately after I posted that last bit, but since civ is usually a free for all maybe that's what this game is? The whole civilized vs uncivilized is just a flavor way of saying 'beat all of the other civs'.

Interesting, are you saying there might not be any town and we're all on our own?

Then when the benga case was in full swing:

Uncultured barbarian.



Vote wing

So yeah, even though he apologized for inactivity during the night he basically had weeks and chose to post what looks like a beginning of day 1 post instead of participating in the crucial argument. I want to hear from him, but also Hotshot on who they think is scum.

[Samlen]

Because I'm too lazy to reread the entire thread right now, what i'm getting is that people think hotshot is scummy for defending benga. I reread the past 5ish pages and hotshot's posts don't seem entirely unreasonable for a town sided person or a scummy person. I'm more interested in how quickly people jumped on him today and those that have disappeared (Like aage...)

[strike wolf]

The two games I remember Hotshot best in: Mandy's Pokémon game and a C9 game where I was his scummate. He never bussed Furcoal or Skiffin and never fully bussed me. He did distance himself from me with a few accusations but they were half-hearted. Now I do acknowledge that the C9 game was different. If we didn't pull off that Lynch day 3, than I was the only possible Lynch and he would have been dead day 4 regardless of how much he bussed me.

Yes I did unvote Benga, I was leaning town on Wing and Rage. Between that and not liking Samlen and Chuck pressing the third party angle on the Lynch, I was willing to reconsider the Lynch if he was able to give a decent answer for defending Dakky. His answer wasn't fool proof but it was consistent. I almost revoTed him when he made the following up comment to my unvote post but decided that I was mostly reacting emotionally not logically to that comment and didn't see a reason to shorten the day.

As for Skittles, the comment alone I could go either way. It does sound a bit like he was trying to take credit for thinking Benga was scum at the end of the day but it by itself is not worth a vote and I would need to reread his posts to come to any conclusion.

Aage is not afraid to be active and engaged while scum. So I find it more likely he is simply inactive than alignment indicative. He could have been compelled to silence due to the town flavor nature of the case but it would be a bit of a jump to definitively come to that conclusion. Prod please.

[Djfireside]

I would agree with the prod on aage just to sub check him. To the point of jumping on Hotshot I can see both sides of the coin on this however I felt it was warranted pressure. The timing of their actions just seemed a bit sketchy which is why they got and retain my vote for now. In this point I will not push others who are not voting and await to see if others arise and watch as the age is young.

[HotShot53]

So what do you think of the people voting for you, hotshot?

Well, when I saw what benga flipped I figured I'd get some votes for defending him. Obviously it's an easy case to make, so it wouldn't be surprising if a scum jumped on the case trying to look like they are scum hunting.

Skittles' post saying he was suspicious of benga, but never actually saying or doing anything about it before the lynch, while jumping on my bandwagon seems to be the most suspicious to me, so I will vote skittles

[dakky21]

Uncultured barbarian.

As ga7 said I realized that aage pointed out barbarians as well as benga did, before it was confirmed that barbarians are really in the game (scene where benga is lynched happens later). So Strike, "just being inactive" can be an alignment pointer if you take the barbarian thing in consideration.

So I'll go ahead and vote aage

[Samlen]

"HURRRBURBLUR I AM JAPAAAAAAN!" is what I take from your comment. What has Japan done for me lately? Stolen my boyfriend and turned him into a weebo. You are no ally of mine, Sir.

But this is is I believe your suggestion there. You may very well be Great Britain, and you may be afflicted with mad cow. This doesn't sound very beneficial to me and may very well disrupt my own stocks, therefore I must close any and all trade with you. If there's no trade between our borders, I don't need you. AWAY WITH YE!

There is no arguing with this logic. Excellent points. Dakky's brilliant plan must be a double bluff!

Also, are you going to answer my question Dakky? All the civilisations in the game are considered civilised. The clue is in the phrasing. We have no idea what criteria MM used to determine who is the scum. For all we know, Gandhi is a serial killer. As you said, think outside the box (am I doing this right?)



Fastposted
FoS Tim for being a blood-thirsty barbarian.

Uncultured barbarian.

As ga7 said I realized that aage pointed out barbarians as well as benga did, before it was confirmed that barbarians are really in the game (scene where benga is lynched happens later). So Strike, "just being inactive" can be an alignment pointer if you take the barbarian thing in consideration.

So I'll go ahead and vote aage

That's actually a really good point. Benga more or less outright stated that he knew it was barbarians vs civs but aage is also one of the people that seemed more confident that it was barbarians vs civs as well. Considering only the barbarians actually knew this, i'd say that's enough to warrant a vote.
Vote Aage

[aage]

Not sure how my usage of the word barbarian makes me scum. They're a very obvious feature of civ games. I recall also mentioning city-states and Gandhi. Should I expect votes from you guys again when they appear in this game?


Regarding my lack of involvement in the Benga case: I didn't believe he was scum. I don't think the argument presented against him was good, and I don't see why Nag applauds the luck those who lynched him. He could have easily been what he claimed to be. I see that Strike is on the same page, which is good.


Regarding my vote on Wing: this was quite obviously a jab at his earlier posts. One I'm sure he figured out.

[nagerous]

Thanks for condescending to show up with your presence.

If you cannot see the strength of the case against benga and the number of scum tells he made then you are pretty damn scummy yourself. It was not luck that we got him it was clever play by those reading between the lines.

[madmitch]

seem s fishy that the only one to vote for Wing was Aage and a pow wing got killed that night

[aage]

Thanks for condescending to show up with your presence.

If you cannot see the strength of the case against benga and the number of scum tells he made then you are pretty damn scummy yourself. It was not luck that we got him it was clever play by those reading between the lines.

I wasn't trying to be condescending. But since you insist, here's your "reading between the lines" case:

Spoiler

Skittles you make it seem that you are convinced that benga is telling the truth. Mafia is a game of manipulation and subterfuge - people lie! Do you not admit that his claim - survivor element aside is extremely shaky. He claimed some civilisation from a random expansion pack, and described them as a 'minor civ' what the hell is a 'minor civ'? He hasn't answered this, as others stated if he quoted city state it may seem more genuine.

Plus all the other smaller scum tells he has made - thinking I claimed doctor etc, the weirdness with the Germany soft claim and backtracking on this at the beginning I can't see any better candidate for a lynch right now.... and fircoal is right on his points he is being attacked on, if worst comes to worse and I am wrong which I do not believe I am then we lose a survivor a third party role which will not damage the town significantly and we will be able to read a lot from the lynch is any case . Either way it is the best case out there

Three things wrong with this. There hasn't been any information broadcasted about what non-town is supposed to be by the time you make this post, so the assumption that 'minor civ' is bullshit is based on nothing. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen Benga before in any game and he came across as a new player to me, hence why I discount the argument concerning him mentioning doc, as well as the fact that he claimed survivor so he wouldn't have known about it in the first place. Thirdly, you claim his to be the best case out there, which is an empty claim because there wasn't any other case out there. You pushed Benga up against the wall since he claimed survivor and offered no alternative outcome - unless you consider your demand for explaining 'minor civ' as a survivor. How the hell was he supposed to know? He didn't make the game. That boils the entire case down to "but he could be lying!".

You're lucky that Benga actually flipped scum because your case wasn't a case and I would've built one on you if he hadn't. And it would've been easy. So if you wish to applaud yourself on it, you're welcome to my condescension. I hope you enjoy it.

seem s fishy that the only one to vote for Wing was Aage and a pow wing got killed that night

Yeah, you caught me. I always announce my night kill targets with my vote from the previous day.

[Skittles!]

Because I'm too lazy to reread the entire thread right now, what i'm getting is that people think hotshot is scummy for defending benga. I reread the past 5ish pages and hotshot's posts don't seem entirely unreasonable for a town sided person or a scummy person. I'm more interested in how quickly people jumped on him today and those that have disappeared (Like aage...)

I don't think he is scummy for defending benga, I think hotshot is scummy because he is playing a similar style of game to Indigo League - noncommittal, sparse posting, not overly bothered by what is happening in the discussion. While Skoffin and Fircoal don't think his meta could be applied to this game, I'm keeping my votes on him until I see an overall improvement in his posts and if another lead takes us somewhere.

As for Skittles, the comment alone I could go either way. It does sound a bit like he was trying to take credit for thinking Benga was scum at the end of the day but it by itself is not worth a vote and I would need to reread his posts to come to any conclusion.

As I have already mentioned, i'm not trying to take credit for anything. The posts I made were to air out my thoughts concerning the end of the last day - that I came to the conclusion that benga was scum through the arguments put forth by others, notably Fircoal, and by his own last posts. Saying that, I stick by my comments that if he was a survivor, I don't think it was worth voting him on day 1 because it would put town at a disadvantage. Considering he flipped scum, congrats to those who read between the lines better than I.

So what do you think of the people voting for you, hotshot?

Well, when I saw what benga flipped I figured I'd get some votes for defending him. Obviously it's an easy case to make, so it wouldn't be surprising if a scum jumped on the case trying to look like they are scum hunting.

Skittles' post saying he was suspicious of benga, but never actually saying or doing anything about it before the lynch, while jumping on my bandwagon seems to be the most suspicious to me, so I will vote skittles

I also defended him and I have no votes apart from you. Did you even read Day 1? I was one of the most vocal to not vote for the possible survivor claim. The way I defended him and the way you defended him was totally different. As I've already stated, you are playing similarly to how you played in Indigo, and you turned up scum there, and I have a feeling you're scum here too.

[nagerous]

Aage you're still missing so many tricks and not reading between the lines on a lot of the discussions that the likes of myself and Fircoal have had and I REFUSE to spell them out to you but my vote will stay on you because you have offered zero evidence that you are town at this moment.

[nagerous]

I like what Nag just posted in relation to the hotshot wagon. I don't agree on the aage vote, though. Even despite aage's lack of participation. Seems weird to look for inactives when an actual case is on the block (whether you like the case or not).

Following this on the phone, I'm not sure if hotshot has responded to the accusations or not yet?

Who are you thinking is scum at this moment? You seemed to be suspicious of Samlen day one and Ga7 but haven't heard too much from you this day phase.