[Official] D&D Mafia ~ Endgame

[skillfusniper33]

Why I didn't have a vote at the end of the day? If I remember my thought process correctly I didn't like either case, and after re-reading that there would be a lynch with the most votes I didn't see a way for the No lynch to make a rally to catch up. Hence me not voting.

Probably a reason for jonty to lie about being chaotic, would be he saw it as an instant lynch. I know I would have jumped on that pretty quickly overall, as many others would. IMO Chaotic seems to me to be mafia based, maybe that should be evil. Now that I start to really separate the 2 classes I come to the opposite opinion that chaotic can't be controlled, and they will be doing as they wish.

I disagree with stubs being mafia based off of SW's case. I just played a game with him and he had the same posting pattern. Yes it drove me crazy, but bringing experience from the play style it is the same.

[safariguy5]

The question at this point to me is whether or not you believe TFO was recruited or not. Just because we haven't found the cult recruiter doesn't mean that lynching recruited cultists is worthless. Certainly if we wait for a few days, then mafia may end up killing a few cultists, but we cannot predict that. Each cultist we lynch will extend the LYLO deadline and narrow down the number of possible cult leaders.

I stand by my vote. Certainly the WIFOM part of recruitment is not good evidence, but I cannot see why TFO would claim a roleblock when he isn't a fully claimed role. As outlined by me already, there's no upside and plenty of downside to claiming a roleblock needlessly.

[Commander9]

The question at this point to me is whether or not you believe TFO was recruited or not. Just because we haven't found the cult recruiter doesn't mean that lynching recruited cultists is worthless. Certainly if we wait for a few days, then mafia may end up killing a few cultists, but we cannot predict that. Each cultist we lynch will extend the LYLO deadline and narrow down the number of possible cult leaders.

I stand by my vote. Certainly the WIFOM part of recruitment is not good evidence, but I cannot see why TFO would claim a roleblock when he isn't a fully claimed role. As outlined by me already, there's no upside and plenty of downside to claiming a roleblock needlessly.

First of all, you've could responded about the other things as well - I'd like to get some clarification about your D1 posts. Regarding TFO - oh, I totally agree that lynching recruited cultists is not a bad thing, but with cop likely dead, we need to find the root of the problems before it's too late. Furthermore, the only reason to believe that TFO is recruited very heavily on WIFOM and if we're wrong, we'd be burned and the cult would get another freebie. Wouldn't it be better for a suggest vig kill if you truly believe that he's recruited? The longer the game lasts, the more strength goes to the cult (typically) so one of the ways to interpret this is that you could be delaying the day.

I guess this doesn't really feel to me like your regular thinking and gameplay I want to pressure to find out what exactly is causing this. Granted, as I've stated, I do believe it was a very bad move to claim that roleblock for all of the reasons I've previously addressed, but that just puts TFO into my watch list rather than the lynch zone. So, for now, my vote also stands (and I'd still like you to address other things I've mentioned).

[strike wolf]

The question at this point to me is whether or not you believe TFO was recruited or not. Just because we haven't found the cult recruiter doesn't mean that lynching recruited cultists is worthless. Certainly if we wait for a few days, then mafia may end up killing a few cultists, but we cannot predict that. Each cultist we lynch will extend the LYLO deadline and narrow down the number of possible cult leaders.

I stand by my vote. Certainly the WIFOM part of recruitment is not good evidence, but I cannot see why TFO would claim a roleblock when he isn't a fully claimed role. As outlined by me already, there's no upside and plenty of downside to claiming a roleblock needlessly.

So you'd rather vote someone who may have been recruited over looking for someone who may be the recruiter? You could stand by the wifom argument that TFO was recruited because of his position in the game. You could also go with the WIFOM argument that he wasn't recruited because he was likely being watched.

[TheForgivenOne]

The question at this point to me is whether or not you believe TFO was recruited or not. Just because we haven't found the cult recruiter doesn't mean that lynching recruited cultists is worthless. Certainly if we wait for a few days, then mafia may end up killing a few cultists, but we cannot predict that. Each cultist we lynch will extend the LYLO deadline and narrow down the number of possible cult leaders.

I stand by my vote. Certainly the WIFOM part of recruitment is not good evidence, but I cannot see why TFO would claim a roleblock when he isn't a fully claimed role. As outlined by me already, there's no upside and plenty of downside to claiming a roleblock needlessly.

So you'd rather vote someone who may have been recruited over looking for someone who may be the recruiter? You could stand by the wifom argument that TFO was recruited because of his position in the game. You could also go with the WIFOM argument that he wasn't recruited because he was likely being watched.

I doubt I was watched, as Greg said his target wasn't visited, and I was blocked, unless we have a second watcher. I want to add something, but it's essentially going to throw more WIFOM into the fire, so I'll hold my tongue unless i'm really pressured into it.

[strike wolf]

The question at this point to me is whether or not you believe TFO was recruited or not. Just because we haven't found the cult recruiter doesn't mean that lynching recruited cultists is worthless. Certainly if we wait for a few days, then mafia may end up killing a few cultists, but we cannot predict that. Each cultist we lynch will extend the LYLO deadline and narrow down the number of possible cult leaders.

I stand by my vote. Certainly the WIFOM part of recruitment is not good evidence, but I cannot see why TFO would claim a roleblock when he isn't a fully claimed role. As outlined by me already, there's no upside and plenty of downside to claiming a roleblock needlessly.

So you'd rather vote someone who may have been recruited over looking for someone who may be the recruiter? You could stand by the wifom argument that TFO was recruited because of his position in the game. You could also go with the WIFOM argument that he wasn't recruited because he was likely being watched.

I doubt I was watched, as Greg said his target wasn't visited, and I was blocked, unless we have a second watcher. I want to add something, but it's essentially going to throw more WIFOM into the fire, so I'll hold my tongue unless i'm really pressured into it.

My point is that going into last night, there was a good chance you could have been watched. Which might have been a consideration both mafia and cult would have to plan around.

[TheForgivenOne]

The question at this point to me is whether or not you believe TFO was recruited or not. Just because we haven't found the cult recruiter doesn't mean that lynching recruited cultists is worthless. Certainly if we wait for a few days, then mafia may end up killing a few cultists, but we cannot predict that. Each cultist we lynch will extend the LYLO deadline and narrow down the number of possible cult leaders.

I stand by my vote. Certainly the WIFOM part of recruitment is not good evidence, but I cannot see why TFO would claim a roleblock when he isn't a fully claimed role. As outlined by me already, there's no upside and plenty of downside to claiming a roleblock needlessly.

So you'd rather vote someone who may have been recruited over looking for someone who may be the recruiter? You could stand by the wifom argument that TFO was recruited because of his position in the game. You could also go with the WIFOM argument that he wasn't recruited because he was likely being watched.

I doubt I was watched, as Greg said his target wasn't visited, and I was blocked, unless we have a second watcher. I want to add something, but it's essentially going to throw more WIFOM into the fire, so I'll hold my tongue unless i'm really pressured into it.

My point is that going into last night, there was a good chance you could have been watched. Which might have been a consideration both mafia and cult would have to plan around.

Ah, right right. Misinterpreted. My bad

[aage]

The question at this point to me is whether or not you believe TFO was recruited or not. Just because we haven't found the cult recruiter doesn't mean that lynching recruited cultists is worthless. Certainly if we wait for a few days, then mafia may end up killing a few cultists, but we cannot predict that. Each cultist we lynch will extend the LYLO deadline and narrow down the number of possible cult leaders.

I stand by my vote. Certainly the WIFOM part of recruitment is not good evidence, but I cannot see why TFO would claim a roleblock when he isn't a fully claimed role. As outlined by me already, there's no upside and plenty of downside to claiming a roleblock needlessly.

Saf, now you're just screwing around. Yes, we should try to extend the LyLo deadline, but we should not actively lynch cultists. Apparently you believe TFO was recruited. That sounds like a very good argument in the discussion on whether or not he is the cult leader.

As on the fully claimed role part, you seem to forget that TFO was the guy who told us about the existence of the cult.

[Nebuchadnezer]

The question at this point to me is whether or not you believe TFO was recruited or not. Just because we haven't found the cult recruiter doesn't mean that lynching recruited cultists is worthless. Certainly if we wait for a few days, then mafia may end up killing a few cultists, but we cannot predict that. Each cultist we lynch will extend the LYLO deadline and narrow down the number of possible cult leaders.

I stand by my vote. Certainly the WIFOM part of recruitment is not good evidence, but I cannot see why TFO would claim a roleblock when he isn't a fully claimed role. As outlined by me already, there's no upside and plenty of downside to claiming a roleblock needlessly.

Wow, Safari, I'm not even sure where you're going with this. You are saying that because TFO claims a roleblock, that he was in fact recruited instead? I don't follow this logic. If he was recruited, doesn't he just say nothing about his power? Or are you saying that he was afraid that after being recruited, Greg might have been watching him, and therefore instead of cult recruiter being outted, it's simply a town roleblocker?

This is quite a stretch to make. I do not agree with your assessment nor your vote. I have to VOTE Safariguy5, because I just can't follow his line of thinking. Do you know something about TFO and what happened last night that you aren't sharing? Otherwise, I'm not sure why you feel so confident that TFO was recruited...nor why you chase him and not the recruiter.

fastposted

[rishaed]

Indeed, TFO might become a policy lynch later on if he hasn't been NK'd by Mafia/vig/latent SK (improbable, but possible?). I see no reason to push the issue on him now. However on D2 pushing to lynch a "possible recruitee" sounds fishy to me, as well as a waste of time currently, we should be using D2 to gain information and claims as much as possible. TFO already has some cards on the table, and there are some variables that unless you provide some very convincing arguments/information will not sway me on him. As an incentive to come up with those arguments I will vote Safariguy

[anamainiacks]

Jonty (7) ~ Newguy, Epitaph, tfo, stubbs, Dazza, Neb, Stubbs
Mob (5)~ aage, newguy, DoomYoshi, jonty, Saf
No Lynch (3) ~ mob, rishaed, Gregwolf

Those VC's are as accurate as I can get them. Sometimes I miss a vote, and then I go back and edit them when I am told.

Well, I have no double vote. I suppose that was a mistake on edoc's behalf.

All this doesn't add up... and what Stubbs is saying directly contradicts edoc. Sorry to bug you edoc, but can we can confirmation on the Day 1 VC again?

Anyway, I too didn't vote by the final VC. Nobody seems to have noticed, but I might as well mention it.

I was definitely opposed to lynching MoB - the whole reasoning about 'he voted for NL' seemed, and still seems, absurd to me, especially when it was definitely on a good number of people's minds at that point. At this point I don't see any particular slipups in his posts - his continued questioning of jonty did keep the game moving along after betiko's modkill, and those questions seem like he was merely wanting to be sure of whether to vote for Jonty or not - eventually deciding not to. Though yes, his post about preferring to vote DoomYoshi over Jonty does feel like it could do with some explaining.

And I didn't vote for Jonty because I did find his claim believable, though his claimed class (Regional Traveler) did raise my eyebrows - which is why I wasn't entirely against the lynch. I would have voted for a no lynch, but it seemed pointless with the difference of 4 votes.

If you were cult, who would you want on your team?

In other news, vote TFO since now I am dying to know what the action from last night is.

I'm confused - how does voting for TFO increase the chances of knowing what the action is? If you're referring to TFO's action, it wouldn't have been performed, since he was supposedly roleblocked, no?

The question at this point to me is whether or not you believe TFO was recruited or not. Just because we haven't found the cult recruiter doesn't mean that lynching recruited cultists is worthless. Certainly if we wait for a few days, then mafia may end up killing a few cultists, but we cannot predict that. Each cultist we lynch will extend the LYLO deadline and narrow down the number of possible cult leaders.

I stand by my vote. Certainly the WIFOM part of recruitment is not good evidence, but I cannot see why TFO would claim a roleblock when he isn't a fully claimed role. As outlined by me already, there's no upside and plenty of downside to claiming a roleblock needlessly.

So you'd rather vote someone who may have been recruited over looking for someone who may be the recruiter? You could stand by the wifom argument that TFO was recruited because of his position in the game. You could also go with the WIFOM argument that he wasn't recruited because he was likely being watched.

Yep, like what some of the others have already said,
(1) At this point, we shouldn't be going after the recruited cult members, but the cult leader himself. There would certainly be benefits of going after cult members, but at this stage we should be focusing on treating the disease, not the symptoms.
(2) Going for possible recruited members at this point could potentially be justified if we're close to the deadline, have tried to talk it out and get as much information as we can to no avail, and decide to target a possible recruited cult member so that we don't waste a day. But you're did that when we've barely had much discussion. Are you trying to end the day early?
(3) The argument that TFO was recruited is purely WIFOM. We have nothing concrete to go on, and if we're wrong about him being recruited, it'll be an even bigger waste of a lynch.
(4) Admitting now that he was roleblocked may have a little benefit for TFO himself, in that if his role is hard to confirm when he finally makes a full claim, he does have some town cred in having transparency. Definitely more bad than good in him announcing it, but still not enough to warrant being a lynch target.
Vote safariguy5.

[safariguy5]

I'm Iangeon Swordhand, Half Elf Ranger and mason with Mob Deadly. Neutral Chaotic alignment

I'm a JOAT with 2 BP vests, a NK, track, and investigate.

Also, should either I or Mob be killed, we can't win unless the killer dies. This is on top of the regular alignment win conditions.

The real question is, when are the chaotic/lawful aligned peeps going to stop working together and start trying to kill each other.

[rishaed]

I'm Iangeon Swordhand, Half Elf Ranger and mason with Mob Deadly. Neutral Chaotic alignment

I'm a JOAT with 2 BP vests, a NK, track, and investigate.

Also, should either I or Mob be killed, we can't win unless the killer dies. This is on top of the regular alignment win conditions.

The real question is, when are the chaotic/lawful aligned peeps going to stop working together and start trying to kill each other.

That's a pretty strong claim in terms that you didn't lie about your alignment. So what happens if one of you is recruited? Can you still win? Would it be possible to get an indicator (so we know who's a cultie with a pos 50% shot if you lie?) if the other one is recruited?
Oh and unvote

[Commander9]

I'm Iangeon Swordhand, Half Elf Ranger and mason with Mob Deadly. Neutral Chaotic alignment

I'm a JOAT with 2 BP vests, a NK, track, and investigate.

Also, should either I or Mob be killed, we can't win unless the killer dies. This is on top of the regular alignment win conditions.

The real question is, when are the chaotic/lawful aligned peeps going to stop working together and start trying to kill each other.

Most likely not a lie, although if one of them turns mafia, the other can also be counted as one. Cult is definitely priority for *everyone* whatever your alignment is. I'm also willing to guess that since Safari has Protection, Mob probably has kills.

[Commander9]

Also, I'd like to get a bit more input and contributions from some of our shy colleagues over there, namely Yoshi, epitaph, neb, dazza, skillful and Rodion/Mob (to a lesser extent).

[anamainiacks]

I'm Iangeon Swordhand, Half Elf Ranger and mason with Mob Deadly. Neutral Chaotic alignment

I'm a JOAT with 2 BP vests, a NK, track, and investigate.

Also, should either I or Mob be killed, we can't win unless the killer dies. This is on top of the regular alignment win conditions.

Would like confirmation of Masonry from MoB (but not full claim, of course).

And if you were Mason with MoB, why did you vote for him yesterday?

This post seems a bit like desperation to me. With the 48 hour deadline, it seems like Mob is trying to find every possible way to get vote pressure off himself. I note that at this point, he and jonty are the most likely candidates to be lynched. Now would be the time to claim (i.e. best way to get lynch pressure off) but he decides to go with the long defense post with a decent amount of Meta and statement of facts instead.

unvote vote Mob

This was at a point where the vote was tied at 4 apiece for Jonty and MoB. It seems like a point where one would attempt to swing the vote in either direction, and you went with someone whom you knew was somewhat town-aligned (Masons are generally town-aligned, if I'm not wrong?).

Most likely not a lie, although if one of them turns mafia, the other can also be counted as one. Cult is definitely priority for *everyone* whatever your alignment is. I'm also willing to guess that since Safari has Protection, Mob probably has kills.

Saf has a NK as well, so not necessarily...

[DoomYoshi]

Wow, Safari, I'm not even sure where you're going with this. You are saying that because TFO claims a roleblock, that he was in fact recruited instead? I don't follow this logic. If he was recruited, doesn't he just say nothing about his power? Or are you saying that he was afraid that after being recruited, Greg might have been watching him, and therefore instead of cult recruiter being outted, it's simply a town roleblocker?

Why not?

If he thought he was being watched, and claims a roleblock, that sets up the cult recruiter as a town roleblocker in the eyes of town. I have tried a very similar move.

Also, why am I shy?

[dazza2008]

I don't think TFO saying he was blocked was a good idea but I believe that he just said it because he was blocked and told us before he thought too much about it. So I don't like that he did it but don't really see a reason to pressure him to claim.

Saf's claim seems like he is telling the truth to me. An MoB confirmation would be good but not a full claim as has been said.

[aage]

And if you were Mason with MoB, why did you vote for him yesterday?

This post seems a bit like desperation to me. With the 48 hour deadline, it seems like Mob is trying to find every possible way to get vote pressure off himself. I note that at this point, he and jonty are the most likely candidates to be lynched. Now would be the time to claim (i.e. best way to get lynch pressure off) but he decides to go with the long defense post with a decent amount of Meta and statement of facts instead.

unvote vote Mob

Excellent catch.

At first I believed Greg was recruited last night (for obvious reasons) and his lack of information only fed that thought. It's also possible that Saf is the recruiter. Makes sense, also explains why he would want TFO to get lynched so badly. TFO knows about the cult, there must be a reason for him to know that. That reason might be that he has some kind of weapon or protection against the cult.

Not sure if my vote is anywhere at the moment. Unvote. Vote Saf.

[dazza2008]

I think Saf needs to answer that and MoB needs to speak. I won't vote now but it seems strange that saf would have voted his mason partner.

[MoB Deadly]

Holy cow. The past 2 pages are gold.

Especially Strike Wolf's post 1 page back. I will definitely be reading that one a few times.

I know I have a lot to respond to but I don't have time to respond to everything.

I'm Iangeon Swordhand, Half Elf Ranger and mason with Mob Deadly. Neutral Chaotic alignment

I'm a JOAT with 2 BP vests, a NK, track, and investigate.

Also, should either I or Mob be killed, we can't win unless the killer dies. This is on top of the regular alignment win conditions.

The real question is, when are the chaotic/lawful aligned peeps going to stop working together and start trying to kill each other.

I can confirm this information.

--------------------------------------------------------

Here is some basic information I will lay out and then expand on later.

1. I havent agreed with Safari's play so far. His voting trends... *especially on me wtf..*, his vote was at a VERY crucial time yesterday. That was a trigger to my "freak out" post yesterday. I was fuming to see that vote from safari. I asked about it overnight, he said he just didn't want to seem too aligned with me. In the back of my head I am like, sure you can do that, but theres 19 players, you don't have to take the extreme and actually vote for me. I didn't like his JOAT soft claim. And I don't like his feelings on TFO. I also don't like how he put my name out there right away. He could have just said I am brothers and "masoned with someone" and then the rest of the players could have decided whether or not he should share the whole information. Now I am half-claimed at Safari's expense. I guess it is not the end of the world as there is already a lot of focus on me.

2. I think TFO is town. His posts seems genuine and I don't think it was the "worst play ever" to share that information. I think it build a lot of WIFOM that doesn't necessarily hurt us at this stage of the game. I know a LOT of people disagree with me, maybe it is because I am not the best player, but I still think TFO is genuine.

3. Aage has tripped my scumdar a couple times.
SW - highlights Stubbs posts and i will be watching stubbs more carefully.

I saw some people question my thoughts on DY/jonty yesterday
1. I think jonty should have lived based on his claim. I thought things were fishy about his claim (I questioned it multiple times) but at the end I was happy with a no lynch. I guess a lot of people were happy to see a neutral/chaotic go down. I don't blame jonty for lying, if he claimed chaotic he was definitely insta-lynched. Someone else said that a couple posts back and I agree with that.

2. I thought DY was acting more scummy than jonty yesterday, but then DY just like reversed everything he said and made a post saying he made a mistake and misread everything. I mean...... I take it for what it's worth, but I was only willing to vote DY first because he was so erractic, and I really thought that jonty was being truthful. Even with a wagon on myself I stayed on No Lynch instead of switching to the other wagon, that has got to say a lot. And as for now, I don't really see DY as scummy anymore, but I still have an eye on him.

There's so much more I want to say. And I know theres quite a few questions I left unanswered.

I also just wanted to comment on MY meta a little. My plan was to be involved in almost everything and be hyperactive, otherwise I end up not posting for pages and pages and I don't like that. I would rather be TOO active than underactive. And I thought being masoned with someone supported that strategy. So obviously I am going to change my mind from time to time based on individuals posts. I do try to stick to my guns and not blatantly flip flop, but there are some good debaters here that obviously has an effect on my decision. And sometimes I make decisions prematurely before they post.

I rambled a lot.. sorry..

[MoB Deadly]

To kind of support the mason claim.

We had a debate yesterday whether or not safari should use his actions. I said it was an option for him to use the BP vests if he wanted. I said the longer we keep them, obviously the more valuable they are, but Safari has a strong reputation here, he could be seen as a likely NK candidate. I left the decision to him and he opted not to use it.

And we agreed it was way to early to use any 1-shot investigative. We would need them if one of us got killed anyway…..

we also made an unofficial pact that if one of us got recruited to cult to try to get the other one recruited as well… I think it is in our best interest to keep that pact, because I don't see how we can win if one of us is recruited and the other is not.......

[dazza2008]

To me something isn't right with saf voting MoB. Its making me not trust anything him or MoB say. It makes sense to not appear too alligned to each other but to vote mob is taking that too far. Especially when he did it.

[rishaed]

A secondary scenario is that Saf is cult leader, and MoB was recruited last night. Thus making "masons" a viable fakeclaim. I already hate the fact that our cop got MK'd, because unless someone else (it seems like we have many JOAT's) vigs/investigates one of them (possible with chaotic alignment) it is not for certain. And with this many JOAT's in a 19 player game unless greg watched someone obscure then, it is possible, but not likely that he is lying & recruited. However that's that. I want to think and mull over the Saf/Mob claim/halfclaim.

[MoB Deadly]

A secondary scenario is that Saf is cult leader, and MoB was recruited last night.

Here is my breadcrumb on Day 1, before any actions occur.

Damn! Good job Safari bro... I was too busy laughing at everyones' post to realize..... I would like to see a votecount before I cast my vote though.

If anyone knows anything about me I rarely every say "bro". If anything I would be stupid about it and call someone "brah", or broseph, but not just bro.

And that would be to a clanmate if anything, not to safari who I barely know