Valkyria Chronicles Mafia - Gallia (Town) Victory!

[spiesr]

Spoiler

Indeed spiesr to have all the night actions to one individual does seem overpowered so that is why it is vital that I am kept alive. You may be sceptical of the claim but are you sceptical of the name claim to go with it? As rishaed put it I have been referenced in the past couple of scenes.

No, the character claim does appear to sufficiently match the role based on by limited knowledge. It is just that the role doesn't make sense to exist in the form it appears to have.

2. Look at the following four players...who, after Virus's claim all unvote and voted for Jonty. My thinking is that Townshend, having found the Princess would unvote and get a lynch quickly, so he could kidnap the Princess at night. Those four that fit this pattern are:
Flores, rishaed, safariguy, and kratos

This seems like as good of idea where to look for Townshend as any right now. Of that list Flores is my prefered target right now.

Now about the princess, i think our best bet atm is to look carefully at the people that pressured the claim of virus, over all after he claimed princess, we need to look closely to the ppl who kept pushing a "full" claim in an obviously town role (seriously, that information only benefited scum).

I am drawn back to this post by Flores. I can't shake the feeling that this may have been a deliberate attempt to get us started looking in the wrong direction.
Vote FloresDelMal

I agree with everything you said, but I dont know that Flores' post was turning us in the wrong direction. When I read it, I took it as speculation. Now Ill have to go back and read where she posted that so I can see if the context matches up, but if it was near the start of the day I wouldnt say it is uncommon for speculation to be given. Ill read back the next time I read up on the new posts

You are correct that it is the sort of thing that could either be an innocent townie trying to get things going with their best guess or a nefarious scum trying to to lead us down the wrong track. There isn't really any way to tell which it is at this point in time. I am judging based on feeling and don't really expect her to answer for it in. I simply give it as an explanation for why I picked Flores over the other candidates.

[Nebuchadnezer]

Okay, I'm going to go a different direction here...looking back at posts, both GA7 and Ghostly have been very poor in the number of posts. Given the setup and the countdown clock that is in place, it is very easy for mafia to sit back and do nothing. I'm willing to bet that one of them is mafia.

I'll start with VOTE GA7

I'll agree that Flores makes something itch between my shoulder blades, but rereading her posts, I find nothing incriminating...yet.

[Anarkistsdream]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around having to find ONE person, no matter if other people look scummy to me or not...

No matter if IB and I had a few *cough* disagreements, I surely don't think he is Townshend...

Ugh... I'll reread later.

[HotShot53]

Okay, I'm going to go a different direction here...looking back at posts, both GA7 and Ghostly have been very poor in the number of posts. Given the setup and the countdown clock that is in place, it is very easy for mafia to sit back and do nothing. I'm willing to bet that one of them is mafia.

I'll start with VOTE GA7

I'll agree that Flores makes something itch between my shoulder blades, but rereading her posts, I find nothing incriminating...yet.

I was thinking along these lines also... would be way too easy for townshend to just sit back and wait for the dayclock to expire without posting, and we'd never catch him...

Doing a quick search, GA7 has only posted twice in all of December (3 times if you count the happy birthday post). That is either serious scummarizing, or she should be replaced... since we already just had 2 replacements, I'd rather try to get her posting again, and see what she has to say for herself. So for that reason, I will vote GA7

[new guy1]

Spoiler

Indeed spiesr to have all the night actions to one individual does seem overpowered so that is why it is vital that I am kept alive. You may be sceptical of the claim but are you sceptical of the name claim to go with it? As rishaed put it I have been referenced in the past couple of scenes.

No, the character claim does appear to sufficiently match the role based on by limited knowledge. It is just that the role doesn't make sense to exist in the form it appears to have.

2. Look at the following four players...who, after Virus's claim all unvote and voted for Jonty. My thinking is that Townshend, having found the Princess would unvote and get a lynch quickly, so he could kidnap the Princess at night. Those four that fit this pattern are:
Flores, rishaed, safariguy, and kratos

This seems like as good of idea where to look for Townshend as any right now. Of that list Flores is my prefered target right now.

Now about the princess, i think our best bet atm is to look carefully at the people that pressured the claim of virus, over all after he claimed princess, we need to look closely to the ppl who kept pushing a "full" claim in an obviously town role (seriously, that information only benefited scum).

I am drawn back to this post by Flores. I can't shake the feeling that this may have been a deliberate attempt to get us started looking in the wrong direction.
Vote FloresDelMal

I agree with everything you said, but I dont know that Flores' post was turning us in the wrong direction. When I read it, I took it as speculation. Now Ill have to go back and read where she posted that so I can see if the context matches up, but if it was near the start of the day I wouldnt say it is uncommon for speculation to be given. Ill read back the next time I read up on the new posts

You are correct that it is the sort of thing that could either be an innocent townie trying to get things going with their best guess or a nefarious scum trying to to lead us down the wrong track. There isn't really any way to tell which it is at this point in time. I am judging based on feeling and don't really expect her to answer for it in. I simply give it as an explanation for why I picked Flores over the other candidates.

Gotcha, makes sense to me, so I wont call it out again, just wanted to offer my take. Out of the possible inactive candidates, I see lots of votes getting put on GA7. We might want a prod on them before too many votes mount, as we cant really expect an answer if hes been inactive the game. MM, can we get a prod on GA7? I apologize if it's unnecessary, but figured I would ask while Im here.

[Minister Masket]

Prods have gone out.

[new guy1]

Prods have gone out.

Thank you

[gregwolf121]

right well first off i want to remind everybody, as it seems that the focus has shifted somewhat, that we aren't really concerned with lynching scum today, we are more concerned with finding and lynching this jean townshend fellow, as he has kidnapped the princess, and the mod told us it would be bad for town if we don't lynch jean today, as to who jean is not sure but there are 16 players left alive, of these we have claims from virus and nag

1) safariguy5
2) new guy1
3) The Weird One
4) virus90-Princess Cordelia gi Randgriz
5) gregwolf121
6) FloresDelMal
8 ) Anarkistsdream
9) rishaed
10) Commander9
12) ghostly447
13) HotShot53
14) kratos644
15) JamesKer1
17) Iron Butterfly
19) ga7
20) nagerous (replaced epic pie)-Captain Eleanor Varrot

so i'm pretty confident that these two aren't townshend so we can eliminate them from the list, we can also safely eliminate spiesr from this list as he replaced james who was MIA for basically all of day two, and spiser replaced day 3 so he couldn't have done the kidnapping,
that leaves 13
1) safariguy5
2) new guy1
3) nebuchadnezer (replaced The Weird One)
5) gregwolf121
6) FloresDelMal
8 ) Anarkistsdream
9) rishaed
10) Commander9
12) ghostly447
13) HotShot53
14) kratos644
17) Iron Butterfly
19) ga7

up to this point i believe we can all agree now i think that i can elimante others from this list but not everyone here will follow why, meaning they would see things differently, ie i would remove myself as i know i am town and am not jean townshend, but the rest of you don't know that and would probably argue so for the sake of time and my case i won't list all of the reasons i have of eliminating the others

2. Look at the following four players...who, after Virus's claim all unvote and voted for Jonty. My thinking is that Townshend, having found the Princess would unvote and get a lynch quickly, so he could kidnap the Princess at night. Those four that fit this pattern are:

Flores, rishaed, safariguy, and kratos

Of these, I would order them safariguy, kratos, Flores and rishaed.

That's all I have.

skimming already eh? I never voted for Jonty. I actually suggested we do a little more scumhunting first.

as i looked at this too, kratos didn't vote jonty, it was IB.
5 left
1) safariguy5
6) FloresDelMal
9) rishaed
13) HotShot53
17) Iron Butterfly
basically i think one of these five is jean townshend, but my money is on it being flores or IB, mostly based on their voting patterns
first IB

Spoiler

IB had voted jonty at the start of day 2

Vote Jonty

Until jonty answers the questions I asked to my satisfaction my vote stays. Yes he may prove he is a vote buyer but that does not prove he is Town. I have played to many games where the vote stealer was able claim a Town role while being Mafia.

he then unvoted jonty

Okay, that probably makes no sense. Im trying to say that unless you were in the empire or a third party, you wouldn't have said that sentence about the rebels the way you did. Im not moving my vote.

Or I was clueless about flavour like I suggested?

unvote

LOL I just realized the irony of your situation by remembering your last two games you modded. On both games I got lynched because of the color scheme you created, which was different then how we normally play.. I made my observations and someone jumped on me saying if I were town I would know what color I was suppose to be. granted the situation is different but the mistake is the same in some regards.

then after virus's claim IB votes for jonty again

I would think that this is first and foremost a mafia game. While role flavor makes a game interesting it should not dictate the flow of the game. Jontys role claim is a prime example. I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he had made a simple mistake, which is why he was forced to claim. I unvoted because I had made simple mistakes that got me lynched in the early days of some games.

On further review this would be a prime opportunity to see how role flavor effects game play and how roles interact. Jontys role bio comes across as completely scummy and self serving. His claim makes sense but his alignment is in doubt because of his bio and in general because a vote stealer is always suspect in my eyes.

Vote jonty

@IB, will you explain your reasoning behind these posts please.

now Flores

Spoiler

flores also started out day 2 by voting jonty

Holy slipup Batman, what do we do now?
Vote Jonty

unvotes jonty and votes for virus

That still leaves the question of why you would use REBELS not Militia. Not once in the episodes that I watched was the word rebels even slightly used. Considering that Gallia is a free country and all. I'm still leaning more 3rd party, and feel that it is time to move somewhere else today. He is a decent lynch target today if we don't get anywhere else.

QFT if we lynch jointy he wont be a big loss for town, but he is not a huge threat either, not for now at least, who knows later if he unlock some scummy power role, but atm i am willing to unvote vote virus for the reasons i posted before in addition to him being so trigger happy about BW's, this seems quite fishy indeed, plus he has made not real contribution to the discussion.

after virus's claim flores is the first to unvote virus and then restarts the case/bandwagon on jonty

Cordelia Gi Randgriz (コーデリア・ギ・ランドグリーズ Kōderia gi Randogurīzu?) is the sixteen year old (18 in Valkyria Chronicles 2) current heiress to the Randgriz line of Archdukes who rule Gallia, standing as a figurehead of the nation and scion of the legendary Valkyrur. (...)
The death of her parents, the former Archduke and Duchess of Gallia, left her heiress to the throne, though her young age has so far precluded her coronation. Since Maurits von Borg was appointed as her regent, she has concealed most of her feelings and thoughts to herself.

guys just check the wiki and Unvote Virus, since he made clear that english is not his first language, it is easier for me to understand why he mistook the plot and made a couple of silly comments.

Borg overflows with self-confidence, and will never lend an ear to anyone's opinions as he believes that he is always right. His own comfort and political power are the driving forces behind all of Borg's decisions, and he is not even remotely concerned about the welfare of others. Being quite the narcissist, Borg lends to become intoxicated with his own passion whenever he delivers a speech regarding his idealistic plans for Gallia's future. To feed his own insatiable lust for power, Borg was willing to set his homeland to the Empire, and he would not hesitate to cut down any who might stand in his way.

since the princess is out on the clear and we know the dirty politician is willing to do anything to take her out of the picture and put himself on the throne, it seems to me that Vote Jonty is the most obvious curse of action.

also at the start of day 3 flores said that you thought the best way to find jean townshend would be by pressuring those who asked virus to fully claim.

I vote yay... I love it... I will have it in any game with more than 10 people... it has killed two townsfolk, but it is about learning to be more cautious with votes, and brings about more intense role-playing. It is a game, and it should be challenging... it has cost us two townsfolk, but it is so much more intriguing

QFT and also YAY!! sure it can be tricky, but it makes for a much more dynamic game experience, it keep us on our toes, and in the same way that we made 2 wrong lynchs on a row, we could get 2 or more right too, so i truly believe that we need to take responsibility for our votes, own the importance of our actions, and stop blamming the system, because the system is genius, if we didn't have this system we could be stuck asking for replacement and modkills every single day.

Now about the princess, i think our best bet atm is to look carefully at the people that pressured the claim of virus, over all after he claimed princess, we need to look closely to the ppl who kept pushing a "full" claim in an obviously town role (seriously, that information only benefited scum).

Merry Xmas everybody!!

but flores didn't vote for any of these players till someone else started the case.

ok, i just arrived to my in laws and ill have 3 family meals in the next days, and restricted access to a PC so i will do my best for stay active, but i need to keep it to the point, nag has been behaving in the same exact noncommiting way he did on cinoville, where he was scum, and he did pressure virus to full claim so atm he seems to be the best option Vote Nag

Fos Anarks a mass claim will only benefit scum, they will be able to take the pick of the most powerful roles and we will be at end game on the blink of an eye, a claim of ones abilities is only justified if we can not make an strong case in another way, so if someone have information about the kidnapper, the best option is try to make a case against this person first, and if that doesnt work just then say the action that backs up your argument if we can learn anything from this situation is that reckless claiming as virus did only brings trouble.

@flores basically please explain your reasoning behind these posts

rishaed

Spoiler

seems to be following flores's lead, ga7 reason for voting was on the off chance it would be right, rishaed said that nag fitted flores's criteria and already had a vote.

f*ck, forum ate my post after too long inactivity. CC IS STUPEHD

Yay, would have picked nay if it was only for today but let's face it, with 14 players to pick from we have pretty low odds to start with, it'd be easier to hit scum randomly, and I do think the system is good to avoid days dragging too much. Frankly I'd prefer if we could pick at the start of every day, as I'm worried it could give way too much of an edge for scum at endgame, it really seems like a double-edged sword depending on the situation at hand.

Anyway, the scenes and reading more on the background made me realize there could be more factions at hand than I first thought of, and it's quite possible the princess' death would act as a "partial beloved", favouring only the GRA rebellion/federation, maybe with an extra kill or something. Which makes me think we now had 2 nights with only one kill, so I wonder if it wouldn't fit this to be a third party faction with no killing abilities. If that's the case, I think it was ultimately a good thing lynching jonty, as I kinda doubt his character would have stayed town, and while mafia politician is a fucking awful role for balance's sake, it would have made sense as a third party jerk.

Of course, that's all in hindsight so meh I need to reread last day and find the wagonners and scumariners such as myself In any case, this game starts to remind me of a certain Star Wars game so I'll Vote Nag on the off chance he's the right pick and because of his very weak first post today (lessee if you remember that, punk )

ps: Melchie where are you

pps: first day of holidays FINALLY YEHHH! Also I'm tipsy.

I will also Vote Nag looking back both he and gregwolf fit the full claim criteria set out by Flores, (a good starting point) and he's already got a vote on himself. That and his posts have had little to contribute so i think its partially justified.

@rishaed please explain

hotshot well hotshot is posting but not really contributing just not a whole lot of meaningful content in the posts

safariguy basically because voted for jonty at the end of the day,

That is a role I have heard of and the flavor fits. I could see jonty in some sort of a lyncher role, considering his use of the stolen vote.

unvote vote jonty

just seems like a weak reason to join the wagon

now then right now i'm more suspicious of flores than the rest so vote flores

[spiesr]

Can we get a vote count? You have only posted one so far this day and that one didn't even include how many were needed to lynch at the time. I think we are at 9 right now and that ga7, nagerous, and Flores are tied at 2.

[safariguy5]

Sorry guys, the surfing in Hawaii was just too good. I'm back now and will be active.

The thing with Nag and IB is that we have a set amount of time to figure out who is Townsend. The question is, how much is finding Townsend worth versus the amount of roles we could be uncovering like Nag's.

I'm unconvinced that we'll be able to find Townsend before the end of the day. I'm also afraid we'll reveal other power roles like Nag's. Worst case scenario, we do know who the princess is, so we could possibly off the princess later on if that would neutralize the advantage. It's not an ideal solution, but we have few leads on Townsend.

[Anarkistsdream]

Sorry guys, the surfing in Hawaii was just too good. I'm back now and will be active.

The thing with Nag and IB is that we have a set amount of time to figure out who is Townsend. The question is, how much is finding Townsend worth versus the amount of roles we could be uncovering like Nag's.

I'm unconvinced that we'll be able to find Townsend before the end of the day. I'm also afraid we'll reveal other power roles like Nag's. Worst case scenario, we do know who the princess is, so we could possibly off the princess later on if that would neutralize the advantage. It's not an ideal solution, but we have few leads on Townsend.

If the princess is kidnapped, how do you think we will be able to off her?

(And I am jealous you were surfing in Hawaii)

[spiesr]

So safariguy, what do you propose that we do today then? Lynch someone who has already claimed? No lynch?

[rishaed]

I propose we get one more full claim today. We can decide from there. And if Ga7 doesn't show up and we have strong claims across the board then I don't mind lynching the inactive if its the safest course of action. A No Lynch today is not an option for me.

[HotShot53]

I propose we get one more full claim today. We can decide from there. And if Ga7 doesn't show up and we have strong claims across the board then I don't mind lynching the inactive if its the safest course of action. A No Lynch today is not an option for me.

With the current vote countdown system, a no-lynch is almost impossible to happen unless people actively campaign for it... eventually it will get down low enough that it only take a few votes to lynch like day 1 was.

Unfortunately I agree it's going to be very hard to find the one particular guy... but we can keep trying anyway. I don't think lynching the princess would work... she'd still be dead, so I suspect we'd get whatever negative effect her dying causes anyway.

[safariguy5]

Sorry guys, the surfing in Hawaii was just too good. I'm back now and will be active.

The thing with Nag and IB is that we have a set amount of time to figure out who is Townsend. The question is, how much is finding Townsend worth versus the amount of roles we could be uncovering like Nag's.

I'm unconvinced that we'll be able to find Townsend before the end of the day. I'm also afraid we'll reveal other power roles like Nag's. Worst case scenario, we do know who the princess is, so we could possibly off the princess later on if that would neutralize the advantage. It's not an ideal solution, but we have few leads on Townsend.

If the princess is kidnapped, how do you think we will be able to off her?

(And I am jealous you were surfing in Hawaii)

That depends on what happens if the princess does get kidnapped. Does that mean that virus dies and we cannot do anything to him? I kind of assumed he would be around and we can still off him if necessary.

[Anarkistsdream]

Virus already posted his one post for flavor... he is missing... powers can't be used on him, is the way I am understanding it... if you have ben kidnapped, your best friend can't come over and hang out.... hahaha

[Minister Masket]

Votey County

safariguy5 - 5 (For bragging about your holiday, you bastard)
FloresDelMal - 2 (spiesr, gregwolf)
ga7 - 2 (Neb, HotShot)
nagerous - 2 (ga7, Flores)

With 6 Days Gone, It Takes 10 to Lynch!

[Nebuchadnezer]

Votey County

safariguy5 - 5 (For bragging about your holiday, you bastard)
FloresDelMal - 2 (spiesr, gregwolf)
ga7 - 2 (Neb, HotShot)
nagerous - 2 (ga7, Flores)

With 6 Days Gone, It Takes 10 to Lynch!

Well, crap, with our votes spread out like this we will get nowhere...

Unvote, Vote FloresDelMar

Unlike Safariguy, I'm not willing to give up on finding Townshend.

[safariguy5]

Virus already posted his one post for flavor... he is missing... powers can't be used on him, is the way I am understanding it... if you have ben kidnapped, your best friend can't come over and hang out.... hahaha

So do we believe the tree stumping would be permanent if we don't find Townsend? Would that change if we end up taking out Townsend after today? There's a lot of variables here that I think means we might be able to mitigate or neutralize this advantage even if we don't manage to get rid of Townsend today.

[Anarkistsdream]

Virus already posted his one post for flavor... he is missing... powers can't be used on him, is the way I am understanding it... if you have ben kidnapped, your best friend can't come over and hang out.... hahaha

So do we believe the tree stumping would be permanent if we don't find Townsend? Would that change if we end up taking out Townsend after today? There's a lot of variables here that I think means we might be able to mitigate or neutralize this advantage even if we don't manage to get rid of Townsend today.

You have been really all over the place... And haven't really brought any cases, just asked random ambiguous questions...

[safariguy5]

All I'm saying is that we're allowing this Townsend character to dictate how we approach this day. Odds are that we don't find him unless we get very lucky, I'm just trying to figure out how we can get mitigate the damage if we don't find him. Which seems very likely to me at this point.

[Anarkistsdream]

All I'm saying is that we're allowing this Townsend character to dictate how we approach this day. Odds are that we don't find him unless we get very lucky, I'm just trying to figure out how we can get mitigate the damage if we don't find him. Which seems very likely to me at this point.

The more time you spend on this, the less you are spending on finding Townshend, brother... I assume you realize that.

[spiesr]

All I'm saying is that we're allowing this Townsend character to dictate how we approach this day.

Whatever role or action Townshend has seems to have made that choice for us. If we had a lead on a scum and had to decide between following it up or looking for Townshend then I could see you point, but we don't have that situation right now.

I'm just trying to figure out how we can get mitigate the damage if we don't find him. Which seems very likely to me at this point.

There isn't really much we can plan for damage control until we know more about what failure to stop Townshend actually means, and we likely won't find that out until/unless it happens. The mod saying that it would be bad for the Empire as well suggests that there is more to it than simply a townie being removed.

[spiesr]

Can we get prods on Flores, Iron Butterfly, kratos, and nagerous?
And replacement/mod-kills on Ga7, ghostly, and Commander? (Particularly those last two who haven't posted since Day 1 a month ago.)

[safariguy5]

All I'm saying is that we're allowing this Townsend character to dictate how we approach this day. Odds are that we don't find him unless we get very lucky, I'm just trying to figure out how we can get mitigate the damage if we don't find him. Which seems very likely to me at this point.

The more time you spend on this, the less you are spending on finding Townshend, brother... I assume you realize that.

I understand, but theoretically, anyone could vote nearly anyone today on the pretext that they could be Townsend. I'm just trying to guard against a forced massclaim on trumped up fears or reasoning. That said, are we willing to push for another claim? IB was the other person put up as a possible suspect, are we pursuing that on the grounds he could be Townsend?