[Official] Wheel of Time:EotW [8/14] D4:Twisted Pattern

[StorrZerg]

@mets I wiggled out! Who would've guessed madmitch didn't understand!

...madmitch did understand. What happened now was not a lightbulb going on in his head, but rather he just gave up arguing with you about it and caved. Because playing mafia well is like being a child: just yell and scream enough about what you want, and you will get your way eventually.

welp good luck proving other wise, Either way things fell into place for me.
Either way you are left with a crap vote that won't accomplish anything.

Since 99% of your problem with me is my claim and how i've handled it and how you expected it to be handled by me, while trying to trap me in a lie which never happened and was never even on the table. Please stop digging to china and get out and play the game. (yo bro stop tunneling like a donkey)
I don't see you looking into any reads, on ANYONE let alone myself. You have literally wasted away doing nothing day one other than "i got a slight scummy on STORR! and everyone else i have nothing.

[Metsfanmax]

Since 99% of your problem with me is my claim and how i've handled it and how you expected it to be handled by me

I don't have a problem with you. I just have a suspicion that you're scum.

I don't see you looking into any reads, on ANYONE let alone myself. You have literally wasted away doing nothing day one other than "i got a slight scummy on STORR! and everyone else i have nothing.

Welcome to D1, where all the reads are shit and not worth looking into, and the whole day is literally wasted.

[StorrZerg]

People with bad votes that need to change
Why are they bad? Because they are either
1 outdated
2. lone voters
3. confirmed town (yo thats me )

Why do we need to consolidate votes? So that we can get a lynch. Because if it is plurality end of day lynch, then i pretty much auto choose who dies unless people start voting.
If you are not scared, thats great place a vote on someone that has a realistic chance of getting lynched, or actually start trying to get some attention on that player.

WCmdrG (1) - mtamburini (Dead vote and you know it, get on and change it and do something, you made comments about virus and been to quiet, speak up and help lead town)

Storr (1) - Mets (jumped on when more people had votes on me, now is the last one, needs to get a grip on the game and give reads)

Endgame (2) - , Talapus (tbh its surprising this lynch doesn't have more, i support this cause)
Mets (1) - Marashu (your pushing on someone that is 100% tunneling and has added nothing to the game, convince him to give other reads and reevaluate him, till then this is a waste)
madmitch (1) - Streaker (not doing anything to convince others to your vote. i mean your probably scum so it doesn't matter)
Talapus (2) - WCmdrG, virus90 (communication problems... Like to see some reevaluations from this, because at this point Talapus is contributing and pushing cases. Comment on this, other wise the original push is terrible to continue pushing for a claim. )
Streaker (4) - Storr, dd515, IB, hotshot53 (feel free to wagon on this)
virus90 (1) - madmitch (wasted vote right now, need to speak up more about lynching him other wise help with someone else.)

[StorrZerg]

Since 99% of your problem with me is my claim and how i've handled it and how you expected it to be handled by me

I don't have a problem with you. I just have a suspicion that you're scum.
Same thing and you know it.

I don't see you looking into any reads, on ANYONE let alone myself. You have literally wasted away doing nothing day one other than "i got a slight scummy on STORR! and everyone else i have nothing.

Welcome to D1, where all the reads are shit and not worth looking into, and the whole day is literally wasted.
Then please never join on day 1 again, and always sign up to replace after day 1. This attitude is a cancer to mafia. Like it or not mafia can be lynched day 1, so start trying to do something. Take a step out of the giant hole you have dug and try to salvage your play this game. It speaks volumes about your alignment with your inability to find no one else suspicious or town read ANYONE in the game. All you seem to be able to do is whine about me and role fish.

[Metsfanmax]

Same thing and you know it.

Of course it is not the same thing, and you know it. As long as you attribute my argument against you to some sort of problem with your personality or your playstyle, you can safely ignore it. When it is an actual scum read, you have to address it face on and show me why it's wrong. You have so far failed to do this, instead asserting again and again that you are confirmed town and that no one is voting the same way as me, instead of actually addressing the case. (Your strongest argument so far has been "you're wrong, I didn't lie," with precisely zero reasoning added.) So it is actually important to make this distinction and show you that this has little to do with you and much to do with the fact that you have deflected all attention onto you into a discussion on the accountability of Hotshot and madmitch.

I mean, if you want to say "your case is shit and no one is joining you," fine, I can't stop you. But then what's the point of continuing the conversation? The more you keep trying to prove me wrong, the more I become convinced that you have something to hide. Town would just move on because they have nothing to prove.

Then please never join on day 1 again, and always sign up to replace after day 1. This attitude is a cancer to mafia. Like it or not mafia can be lynched day 1

Yes, they can. As I pointed out in a recent game, our collective ability to lynch mafia on D1 is about as good as just picking someone at random. This is something to be proud of and is a testament to what can get accomplished if we spend pages of content on D1.

At the risk of stooping to your level, the attitude that is a cancer to mafia is thinking that you are better than scum-hunting than you actually are. It is only not recognized as a cancer because most people are stricken with it. I am rather stridently going after you but I still wouldn't be able to confidently say that there's more than, say, a 40% chance that you're scum. That is just more confident than I usually am, especially on D1.

so start trying to do something. Take a step out of the giant hole you have dug and try to salvage your play this game. It speaks volumes about your alignment with your inability to find no one else suspicious or town read ANYONE in the game. All you seem to be able to do is whine about me and role fish.

It doesn't say anything about my alignment. If you'd paid any attention to how I played in past games, you'd see that I usually don't have any reads on D1. Your play so far this game is unusually triggering to me.

But, if you think that my extensive case against you is the result of me not being town-friendly, you have three votes which you can use to do something about it. Otherwise, this is just OMGUS. "It's whining when it's a case against me."

[StorrZerg]

you claimed i was a liar, and you would lynch me for it.
Yet I didn't lie. That was countering a baseless accusation on a hypothetical situation. (solid accusation on your part right!)

[Metsfanmax]

Also, lol at your argument against lone voters. That's a great attitude: never start a case against someone new, just sheep on what other people are doing.

(Note that at some point you were the lone vote on Streaker, which by your own logic means you should have unvoted and instead voted for someone else immediately.)

[Metsfanmax]

Talapus, did someone visit you, and you guys had a private chat? Or was that someone else or no one

It was me who visited Talapus (I said this before, but nobody seemed to notice). I don't THINK my visit ability is a day RB, so either a) it is, and our visit actions are secret from us, b) there is a day RB who targeted Talapus, c) Talapus' day action is not a visit and can be interrupted by a visit, or d) Talapus really didn't get the action in on time. I thought that mtam and Streaker already claimed they were the 2 who didn't send actions in, though, which means one of those three is lying.

Well, you haven't told us if you received any response from your visit action. But you should know already whether a) is true, because you either did or did not receive confirmation about your day action. So this comment is a little strange. It seems to be implying that either 1) you're lying or 2) the mod did not say anything to you after you submitted your action. I find the second rather unlikely. And I'm still confused about what the "pleasant chat" is referring to. Does that mean you two talked to each other in secret? Notice that Storr is actually directly asking you and you aren't actually responding, you're only responding to the other bit about whether you roleblocked him.

[Talapus]

Talapus, did someone visit you, and you guys had a private chat? Or was that someone else or no one

It was me who visited Talapus (I said this before, but nobody seemed to notice). I don't THINK my visit ability is a day RB, so either a) it is, and our visit actions are secret from us, b) there is a day RB who targeted Talapus, c) Talapus' day action is not a visit and can be interrupted by a visit, or d) Talapus really didn't get the action in on time. I thought that mtam and Streaker already claimed they were the 2 who didn't send actions in, though, which means one of those three is lying.

Well, you haven't told us if you received any response from your visit action. But you should know already whether a) is true, because you either did or did not receive confirmation about your day action. So this comment is a little strange. It seems to be implying that either 1) you're lying or 2) the mod did not say anything to you after you submitted your action. I find the second rather unlikely. And I'm still confused about what the "pleasant chat" is referring to. Does that mean you two talked to each other in secret? Notice that Storr is actually directly asking you and you aren't actually responding, you're only responding to the other bit about whether you roleblocked him.

I'm not trying to be cryptic, I just have zero idea what the message means that I received. I think it is more storyline based and couldn't really decide what I was suppossed to get out of it. I'm not saying who I tried to visit because I firmly believe the person I tried to visit wasn't there. And there is a strong potential I stumbled on a strong town role by trying to visit this individual. But again I am not 100%.

But I didn't get the option to trade, there was no nice chat, there was nothing in message to indicate the person I tried to visit was in the location. I'm not even sure I left to visit as again the person I tried too wasn't there. I won't quote the message, but I was told the person I was looking for was somewhere else. But I wasn't looking specifically for the role I was given in the message or any role for that matter. A role was said instead of the person's name. So again not too sure if I stumbled on a main power role or not as it really confused me. Regardless. No one was where I went to visit. Nothing happened.

[Metsfanmax]

@Tal I understand. I was asking Marashu if the two of you had a chat as a result of his[/] day action.

[Talapus]

Talapus, did someone visit you, and you guys had a private chat? Or was that someone else or no one

According to another player in this game they came and had a pleasant chat with me. I got zero confirmation on that though so no idea. But that fact and the fact the person I tried to visit wasn't in their location makes me assume I never visited anyone or never actually left. I just really don't know.

[Metsfanmax]

Talapus, did someone visit you, and you guys had a private chat? Or was that someone else or no one

According to another player in this game they came and had a pleasant chat with me. I got zero confirmation on that though so no idea. But that fact and the fact the person I tried to visit wasn't in their location makes me assume I never visited anyone or never actually left. I just really don't know.

Well, if you're saying that you and Marashu never spoke to each other outside of this thread, then that answers my question. It still leaves the question of what Marashu was referring to when he said that. A roleblock would be a logical explanation. But whatever the case, why would Marashu admit to having visited you but then be cryptic about what the effect was? What does that gain him or us? I have to say it doesn't seem very scummy to be that open about it, but at the same time I don't understand why he claims to not know whether the results of his action were secret.

[Iron Butterfly]

Storr I have to agree with Mets. You need to "poop or get off the pot". You are in control of three votes. Youve stated your day action and told us what you can do. If you mislynch with your 1 vote you will still be suspected as scum by some. The only way to guarantee a lynch is to use your two other votes at the end of the day so stop trying to act like the benevolent dictator when it comes to the votes you own.

On the top of my list is Streaker and Endgame.

Mtam also keeps talking a good game about reading and posting and everyday we draw closer to deadline with nothing from him.

[Marashu]

Talapus, did someone visit you, and you guys had a private chat? Or was that someone else or no one

According to another player in this game they came and had a pleasant chat with me. I got zero confirmation on that though so no idea. But that fact and the fact the person I tried to visit wasn't in their location makes me assume I never visited anyone or never actually left. I just really don't know.

Well, if you're saying that you and Marashu never spoke to each other outside of this thread, then that answers my question. It still leaves the question of what Marashu was referring to when he said that. A roleblock would be a logical explanation. But whatever the case, why would Marashu admit to having visited you but then be cryptic about what the effect was? What does that gain him or us? I have to say it doesn't seem very scummy to be that open about it, but at the same time I don't understand why he claims to not know whether the results of his action were secret.

The result from my visit was that I had "a pleasant chat" but that otherwise nothing happened. I don't think that it had any game effects, and it does sound like Tal wasn't roleblocked after all (I'm surprised that Tal were given a name, though.)

@Tal/IB could you give me why you think End is scum? So far all I'm getting from the case on him is that all his posts are about figuring out mechanics, and that he's pushing really hard on the fact that Tal couldn't visit someone.

[StorrZerg]

Storr I have to agree with Mets. You need to "poop or get off the pot". You are in control of three votes. Youve stated your day action and told us what you can do. If you mislynch with your 1 vote you will still be suspected as scum by some. The only way to guarantee a lynch is to use your two other votes at the end of the day so stop trying to act like the benevolent dictator when it comes to the votes you own.

On the top of my list is Streaker and Endgame.

Mtam also keeps talking a good game about reading and posting and everyday we draw closer to deadline with nothing from him.

are you deaf? or blind? or both. I've stated as such at the end of the day I will override anyone's vote that i feel isn't helping to secure a lynch.
Is it the end of the day ? No, Do i still have time to argue for the lynch i want with out abusing my power? yes.
So then, why are you talking to me about this, rather than supporting my cause to get lone votes to gather together, or reevaluate their votes to move some place else to secure a lynch?

So i will continue being the Benevolent TOWN Trader that i am.

[StorrZerg]

Also, lol at your argument against lone voters. That's a great attitude: never start a case against someone new, just sheep on what other people are doing.

(Note that at some point you were the lone vote on Streaker, which by your own logic means you should have unvoted and instead voted for someone else immediately.)

You do realize a part of mafia is lynching people. That usually can't be done with out majority. Hence, i'm talking a leadership position within town in trying to get something done.
Its not about never starting a new case, its about our day 1 has 2 days left, and We need to leave time for people to claim if needed when pressured, and for them to respond. Because Several people can be gone for 24 hours or more at a time. There is purpose for what i do, and its sound. Like it or not, getting town to focus their efforts on a few people is a good thing. Cause obviously right now it isn't happening, so some direction needs to be applied.

Many of your arguments against me seem to lack this thing called "Timing" you had the lone vote on streaker! you should have unvoted!, madmitch didnt accept responsibility of his vote, you should vote him! The reason i can blow you off so easily is because your arguments are bad (yo its day 1 mets and you suck at it, you dont know how to scum hunt on day 1 its ok, just be a follower today and ride a mafia lynch )

I know you are tunneling because you are not trying to convince others to hope back on my wagon, you joined at the peak of votes on me, and they started falling off. Take a hint, try again tomorrow.

[StorrZerg]

@Marashu can you consider voting someone else?
@Mtamburini, yo wake up do something

[Metsfanmax]

The reason i can blow you off so easily is because your arguments are bad (yo its day 1 mets and you suck at it, you dont know how to scum hunt on day 1 its ok, just be a follower today and ride a mafia lynch )

Well instead of sniping at each other, the best way is to bet. (A wise person once said that a bet is a tax on bullshit.) So if you strongly believe that you have a better than random chance ability to lynch mafia today, you should be willing to bet favorably on that hypothesis. I would guess that in a 14 person game there's maybe 3 scum and 1 third party, something like that. So I imagine there's a 10/14 = 71.4% chance that we will hit town today. Said another way, I would bet at 10:4 odds that we'll mislynch. So, as an example, I would accept a bet in which I put in $20 and you put in at least $8. Let's make it $20 to $10 to account for a slight bit of loss aversion on my side (I am a grad student after all). Do you accept? I'll PayPal you the money if I lose, and I expect the same from you if you lose.

[StorrZerg]

Pathetic

[Metsfanmax]

I'm giving you full 2:1 odds to prove that you are as good at scum hunting as you say you are. Surely you would jump at the chance to take my money if you really believed what you are saying. I'll even up the ante a little bit to sweeten the deal. $30 to $15?

[StorrZerg]

I don't allow out side bets when I host. I don't do it when I play. Some people actually have integrity mets. You disappoint me, thst you would sink this low to try to make a play.

[Metsfanmax]

I don't allow out side bets when I host. I don't do it when I play. Some people actually have integrity mets. You disappoint me, thst you would sink this low to try to make a play.

Make a play about what? This has nothing to do with my vote on you or about your own particular scum hunting skills. It is purely a bet on your claim that I suck at D1 and you are much better at it.

If you won't put your money where your mouth is, then shut the f*ck up and accept that maybe you're not so good as you say you are.

[Metsfanmax]

I don't allow out side bets when I host. I don't do it when I play. Some people actually have integrity mets. You disappoint me, thst you would sink this low to try to make a play.

And just so we're clear, the integrity vanished when you said that I "suck at" D1 and I don't know how to scum hunt, purely because I happen to think there's a better than average chance that you are scum. There's no integrity in telling someone that they suck at mafia and that their opinion shouldn't be listened to, merely because you disagree with their case. If you want to restore the integrity of the game, clean up your own act first.

[madmitch]

come on Storr use my vote, I all claim to it when I traded it, and I do not want to take a chanch of losing what I traded for by even suggesting what you do with it and right now I have something pretty good ideals....lol

[madmitch]

i meant I lost all claim to it