Power Role Draft Mafia - Town Wins!

[everywhere116]

Vote Ghostly

Two of the remaining scummuloids are ghostly and Clever. After rereading this thread, it was quite obvious that the three of them took every opportunity to defend each other from pressure when given the chance. This became more obvious as the day went on. I'll bring up the specific examples in a couple minutes. I'm going with ghost now because PMC has already presented a good case with him and, in my opinion, succeeded in his debate with him.

[everywhere116]

EBWOP: By "three of them" I mean shield, ghostly, and clever. I had that in my head the entire time. Must not have written it.

[everywhere116]

I will actually come to Clevers somewhat a rescue here. L-3 is not normally something I feel is scummy, and nor is the fact that he jumped off and your reasoning for it. If he were mafia, he would have stayed put and hoped for someone else to be the target of suspicion, or at least held on long enough to drop off undetected (IE Freezie claiming a good town role and him not wanting to lynch that role).

I don't think Clever's scummy, it seems to me he's just a n00b, still trying to get out of thse n00b shoes.

@MOD, I don't think ghostly meant to vote himself at the end of his last post

I think SG7 may be a little scummy, but not enough that it deserve my vote yet. I am waiting for a big slip, but for now it just seems he tried to call out the DV and got it wrong.

*Note, the slip that got shield lynched had already occurred by this point, plus contradicts a later quote.

I'm agreeing with ghostly you are in no right to say if he has been active enough to be unconfused
Because I have been completely active reading every last word and hell im confused as shell

Ok and the sg7 case he doesn't seem that scummy and I thought I asked but just cause his vote moves does that honestly mean he isn't the dv cause all the real dv would have to do is send a pm and get himself safe

I personally feel SG7 is to be trusted. I know how it feels to get a crap role in a game, and it nearly sucks the effort right out of you. I find it more fighy that Nag only came in after 10 days jsut to say it seems a little fishy for him copying the first page and organizing it. Its exactly what I did too, but I dont think I accidently deleted any.

i have to agree with you ghostly everyone says he is so good and he goes and jumps on a wagon like that ...maybe you guys have put him to high up on a pedistal and he cant live up to it...but still with all that experience you think he would know better
vote nag

Direct response to the previous quote

[spiesr]

Lol I completely made it up, was worth a try

They way you made the post where you asked him made it pretty obvious that you were faking it. So, I don't know if anything was even gained by doing so, as I am pretty sure nagerous could see through it too.

[edocsil]

Shit. That was a bad night. I think if the Vig. is town you need to play it a bit safer. Anyone got any info that is useful?

You know full well that those were both scum kills, not a vig/joat jumping the gun. Look at the placement in the lists.

What do you mean by look at the placement in the lists?

They had top role pics, ergo they are the doc, cop, joat candidates all WIFOM aside. Town vig would have to be dumb in a way I can describe without getting a vacation to send a kill in there.

What da hell ya talkin' about? Ragian and Freezie were #10 and #11 respectively.

Well f*ck me. I was looking at the ones as their pick number.

[ghostly447]

I will actually come to Clevers somewhat a rescue here. L-3 is not normally something I feel is scummy, and nor is the fact that he jumped off and your reasoning for it. If he were mafia, he would have stayed put and hoped for someone else to be the target of suspicion, or at least held on long enough to drop off undetected (IE Freezie claiming a good town role and him not wanting to lynch that role).

So wait. Because I stated my opinion that L-3 in fact wasnt scummy, and happened to be defending CLEVER because of it, I am scummy?

I don't think Clever's scummy, it seems to me he's just a n00b, still trying to get out of thse n00b shoes.

To be fair I do believe this was the night that PMC announced on RT that SG7 was no longer a noob (or the day after possibly). So I think this was more of boasting than anything.

@MOD, I don't think ghostly meant to vote himself at the end of his last post

I think SG7 may be a little scummy, but not enough that it deserve my vote yet. I am waiting for a big slip, but for now it just seems he tried to call out the DV and got it wrong.

*Note, the slip that got shield lynched had already occurred by this point, plus contradicts a later quote.

So he caught me accidentally voting myself while trying to defend myself (while on a pill that made me drowsy by the way!) and pointed it out to the mod so it wouldnt be taken as a real vote. So he helped make sure a player didnt vote themselves. Now you are just trying to mount up a pile of bull crap. I know its going to be OMGUS, but seriously? This isnt defending someone, it is making sure the player doesnt mess up on voting themselves.

I'm agreeing with ghostly you are in no right to say if he has been active enough to be unconfused
Because I have been completely active reading every last word and hell im confused as shell

Ok and the sg7 case he doesn't seem that scummy and I thought I asked but just cause his vote moves does that honestly mean he isn't the dv cause all the real dv would have to do is send a pm and get himself safe

Once again stating his strong belief that no one can judge my activity until they know my daily routine. And then I dont even know why you quoted the rest of this. You do realize the town doesnt know who the mafia are and it is not a rare happening for a town to accidentally defend a mafia, correct? reading through, this is the worst case I think I have ever seen.

I personally feel SG7 is to be trusted. I know how it feels to get a crap role in a game, and it nearly sucks the effort right out of you. I find it more fighy that Nag only came in after 10 days jsut to say it seems a little fishy for him copying the first page and organizing it. Its exactly what I did too, but I dont think I accidently deleted any.

i have to agree with you ghostly everyone says he is so good and he goes and jumps on a wagon like that ...maybe you guys have put him to high up on a pedistal and he cant live up to it...but still with all that experience you think he would know better
vote nag

Direct response to the previous quote

Okay, so once again, I have been confused just about the entire game. Just because I accidentally took the wrong side of the case, and CLEVER followed suit, doesnt make us any scummier than that other case I was bringing up..What was that case again? Something about Nag and Dazza taking a joke vote so seriously. So, you are bringing it up against me, but not against them. That is scummy, and going by your logic can therefore connect you to both nag and dazza. So if we are going to play a game like that, then I guess the first offense was Nag and Dazza, so wouldnt you much rather go after them?

[everywhere116]

You can't (or more likely won't) see the forest through the trees.

[spiesr]

I will actually come to Clevers somewhat a rescue here. L-3 is not normally something I feel is scummy, and nor is the fact that he jumped off and your reasoning for it. If he were mafia, he would have stayed put and hoped for someone else to be the target of suspicion, or at least held on long enough to drop off undetected (IE Freezie claiming a good town role and him not wanting to lynch that role).

So wait. Because I stated my opinion that L-3 in fact wasnt scummy, and happened to be defending CLEVER because of it, I am scummy?

No, it doesn't make you scummy. What it does though is provide collaborating evidence in support of the idea that there is a connection between you and SomethingClever.

[ghostly447]

I will actually come to Clevers somewhat a rescue here. L-3 is not normally something I feel is scummy, and nor is the fact that he jumped off and your reasoning for it. If he were mafia, he would have stayed put and hoped for someone else to be the target of suspicion, or at least held on long enough to drop off undetected (IE Freezie claiming a good town role and him not wanting to lynch that role).

So wait. Because I stated my opinion that L-3 in fact wasnt scummy, and happened to be defending CLEVER because of it, I am scummy?

No, it doesn't make you scummy. What it does though is provide collaborating evidence in support of the idea that there is a connection between you and SomethingClever.

Im glad opinions are now held as evidence to my guiltiness now. Too bad, to me, it doesnt prove anything, and it shouldnt prove anything. I posted my opinion that I didnt find it scummy, and it all of a sudden connects me and CLEVER, but yet you dont notice all the other times like Dazza and Nag. By your logic, I could just say that all of the people are connected who voted for any certain person. Your logic holds no weight.

[spiesr]

Im glad opinions are now held as evidence to my guiltiness now. Too bad, to me, it doesnt prove anything, and it shouldnt prove anything. I posted my opinion that I didnt find it scummy, and it all of a sudden connects me and CLEVER, but yet you dont notice all the other times like Dazza and Nag. By your logic, I could just say that all of the people are connected who voted for any certain person. Your logic holds no weight.

I have to agree with everywhere here, in that you seem to be focusing in on the individual points that he highlighted and trying to counter those for whatever reason, in doing so you are missing the main point t=of the argument, which is that everything together seems to indicate the possibility of a link between you, shield and SomethingClever.

You can't (or more likely won't) see the forest through the trees.

[ghostly447]

Im glad opinions are now held as evidence to my guiltiness now. Too bad, to me, it doesnt prove anything, and it shouldnt prove anything. I posted my opinion that I didnt find it scummy, and it all of a sudden connects me and CLEVER, but yet you dont notice all the other times like Dazza and Nag. By your logic, I could just say that all of the people are connected who voted for any certain person. Your logic holds no weight.

I have to agree with everywhere here, in that you seem to be focusing in on the individual points that he highlighted and trying to counter those for whatever reason, in doing so you are missing the main point t=of the argument, which is that everything together seems to indicate the possibility of a link between you, shield and SomethingClever.

You can't (or more likely won't) see the forest through the trees.

I argued every point of his case. Now I will address this connecting people.

View the Hectic Eclectic game where I connected SW and Chap. They both turned out to have an alternate win condition of killing each other. YOU CANT CONNECT PEOPLE BASED ON THEIR ACTIONS AND EXPECT GOOD EVIDENCE TO COME OF IT.

[dazza2008]

Im glad opinions are now held as evidence to my guiltiness now. Too bad, to me, it doesnt prove anything, and it shouldnt prove anything. I posted my opinion that I didnt find it scummy, and it all of a sudden connects me and CLEVER, but yet you dont notice all the other times like Dazza and Nag. By your logic, I could just say that all of the people are connected who voted for any certain person. Your logic holds no weight.

I have to agree with everywhere here, in that you seem to be focusing in on the individual points that he highlighted and trying to counter those for whatever reason, in doing so you are missing the main point t=of the argument, which is that everything together seems to indicate the possibility of a link between you, shield and SomethingClever.

You can't (or more likely won't) see the forest through the trees.

I argued every point of his case. Now I will address this connecting people.

View the Hectic Eclectic game where I connected SW and Chap. They both turned out to have an alternate win condition of killing each other. YOU CANT CONNECT PEOPLE BASED ON THEIR ACTIONS AND EXPECT GOOD EVIDENCE TO COME OF IT.

Just because in one game you read it wrong does not mean you can never connect people. Normally when it appears there is a connection it is because there is.

Of course scum could try to agree a lot with a townie to make him look guilty but in this case you seem to agree and defend SG7 quite a bit.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Im glad opinions are now held as evidence to my guiltiness now. Too bad, to me, it doesnt prove anything, and it shouldnt prove anything. I posted my opinion that I didnt find it scummy, and it all of a sudden connects me and CLEVER, but yet you dont notice all the other times like Dazza and Nag. By your logic, I could just say that all of the people are connected who voted for any certain person. Your logic holds no weight.

I have to agree with everywhere here, in that you seem to be focusing in on the individual points that he highlighted and trying to counter those for whatever reason, in doing so you are missing the main point t=of the argument, which is that everything together seems to indicate the possibility of a link between you, shield and SomethingClever.

You can't (or more likely won't) see the forest through the trees.

ok so by your logic you and everywhere are now connected cause he agreed with you?

Im glad opinions are now held as evidence to my guiltiness now. Too bad, to me, it doesnt prove anything, and it shouldnt prove anything. I posted my opinion that I didnt find it scummy, and it all of a sudden connects me and CLEVER, but yet you dont notice all the other times like Dazza and Nag. By your logic, I could just say that all of the people are connected who voted for any certain person. Your logic holds no weight.

I have to agree with everywhere here, in that you seem to be focusing in on the individual points that he highlighted and trying to counter those for whatever reason, in doing so you are missing the main point t=of the argument, which is that everything together seems to indicate the possibility of a link between you, shield and SomethingClever.

You can't (or more likely won't) see the forest through the trees.

I argued every point of his case. Now I will address this connecting people.

View the Hectic Eclectic game where I connected SW and Chap. They both turned out to have an alternate win condition of killing each other. YOU CANT CONNECT PEOPLE BASED ON THEIR ACTIONS AND EXPECT GOOD EVIDENCE TO COME OF IT.

and i was in this game and can confirm this ...to connect someone based on an opinion they have is pure crap
if you wanna continue using this logic then you guys are connected

[ghostly447]

Im glad opinions are now held as evidence to my guiltiness now. Too bad, to me, it doesnt prove anything, and it shouldnt prove anything. I posted my opinion that I didnt find it scummy, and it all of a sudden connects me and CLEVER, but yet you dont notice all the other times like Dazza and Nag. By your logic, I could just say that all of the people are connected who voted for any certain person. Your logic holds no weight.

I have to agree with everywhere here, in that you seem to be focusing in on the individual points that he highlighted and trying to counter those for whatever reason, in doing so you are missing the main point t=of the argument, which is that everything together seems to indicate the possibility of a link between you, shield and SomethingClever.

You can't (or more likely won't) see the forest through the trees.

I argued every point of his case. Now I will address this connecting people.

View the Hectic Eclectic game where I connected SW and Chap. They both turned out to have an alternate win condition of killing each other. YOU CANT CONNECT PEOPLE BASED ON THEIR ACTIONS AND EXPECT GOOD EVIDENCE TO COME OF IT.

Just because in one game you read it wrong does not mean you can never connect people. Normally when it appears there is a connection it is because there is.

Of course scum could try to agree a lot with a townie to make him look guilty but in this case you seem to agree and defend SG7 quite a bit.

So now you too are connected to them. Wow guys, I think we got a big mafia showing now! All I did was state my opinions on stuff, that is it. Same with CLEVER. I may as well connect everyone who has been on every bandwagon if you want to use this logic.

I dont think I agreed with SG7 but once, and defended him once because I honestly didnt think he was mafia. And I was proven wrong. Are you going to call out everyone else for being wrong about any other lynch? I DOUBT IT. Everywhere is trying to pick out the easy lynch, and both dazza and spiesr are trying to jump on the easy BW. How is that for logic then?

[Some7hingCLEVER]

What comes off as scummy to me the more and more that I think about it...is the wide push early on for a mass claim. I just can't figure out in looking at it...with none of us knowing anything about the town/mafia nature of the roles that would be revealed...how that doesn't work to help the mafia. Spiesr was the one who initiated that campaign...and it strikes me as suspicious that after the mass claim idea was mass vetoed...he went quiet for a bit until trying to keep pressure up on freezie.

fos as spiesr

I like the reasoning, and agree that we should be going after the ones who pushed it....but that wasn't spieser. That was pmc. He was the driving force behind the mass claim, speiser was just giving tacit consideration like any rational player would. Looking back, it was pmc that first came up with the idea, the one that advocated for it, the one that disparaged edocsil for disagreeing with it, and then continued to argue it;s merits after it was clear that no one was going for it. What's even more strange is that he also intermittedly votes for freezie for inactivity. It was quite humorous to see the order of his posts on pages 7-8: Post giving support to claim plan, post giving further support to plan and accusing you of being a submariner despite having posted an hour before his post, you answer, he votes freezie. Then he disparages edocsil again, saying that the plan would give the town information, and in his next post votes freezie again. (This started the freezie BW which I, admittedly was a part of).

Vote PMC

woah now you are connected to him!

What is the difference between the cop, vig, doc etc being out or not when mafia can see who got the top roles already?

The people who drafted first my or may not have actually ended up with roles like cop, doc ect. Everyone has thier own priorities for which roles they would have put at the top of their list. For example, I was placed near the bottom of the draft and still got the my first choice of role. That, and knowing exactly which is which would be at least somewhat better (for the mafia) than just vaguely knowing who likely has a powerful role.

I agree. Everyone didn't have to pick the most powerful roles. They could have picked a role they just like or 1 they have never played as before.

woah now daz is connected to spiesr?

I don't see why you guys think L-3 is significant it is not exactly danger territory. What is significant is that he has seemed very eager to "look" townie by just hopping on the latest wagon and then quickly unvoting purely due to the popularity of the options.

Agreed.

I really don't have much else to add... I'll take a jgordon backseat and wait for scumslips

Or to try to avoid dropping any of your own?

connected to pmc?...your logic still looking good?

Ah, I like your idea pmc. I didn't think of it that way. So are you saying mafia would have chosen 1 role from each of those groups?

oh and the mafia player connecting himself to pmc who is connected to spiesr who is connected to daz?
so you can keep your case on me for being connected but just understand that my case just became so much stronger

[Djfireside]

I made a statement before and I have a theory so I would like others input on this one.

Judging by the double death, the only possibility in theory would have been JOAT and Vigilante. The JOAT using the one shot vig and the vig being a vig. Does anyone see any other possibilities?

Im just trying to figure out if there are any other ways to be killed other than those two roles that anyone sees as Im pretty sure mafia have taken them

[everywhere116]

*chuckles* The two of you are missing the point, intentionally most likely. You're still arguing from the perspective that any one post defending a scum damns a player and/or implies a connection. It's the long term trend, not the individual data point that matters in my case. The point is that the three of you, including shield, never attacked each other and never bothered to defend anyone unless it was one of you who was being attacked. And now that we know shield to be scum, that implicates all of you.

Fastpost quote:

I made a statement before and I have a theory so I would like others input on this one.

Judging by the double death, the only possibility in theory would have been JOAT and Vigilante. The JOAT using the one shot vig and the vig being a vig. Does anyone see any other possibilities?

Im just trying to figure out if there are any other ways to be killed other than those two roles that anyone sees as Im pretty sure mafia have taken them

Uhh...yeah. The mafia get a kill regardless of the roles that they have.

[dazza2008]

I made a statement before and I have a theory so I would like others input on this one.

Judging by the double death, the only possibility in theory would have been JOAT and Vigilante. The JOAT using the one shot vig and the vig being a vig. Does anyone see any other possibilities?

Im just trying to figure out if there are any other ways to be killed other than those two roles that anyone sees as Im pretty sure mafia have taken them

Yes it has to have been the Vig. or the JOAT for the second kill. So mafia have 1 of them roles or we have a wreckless townie with a gun

Fastposted by everywhere.

[ghostly447]

*chuckles* The two of you are missing the point, intentionally most likely. You're still arguing from the perspective that any one post defending a scum damns a player and/or implies a connection. It's the long term trend, not the individual data point that matters in my case. The point is that the three of you, including shield, never attacked each other and never bothered to defend anyone unless it was one of you who was being attacked. And now that we know shield to be scum, that implicates all of you.

Fastpost quote:

I made a statement before and I have a theory so I would like others input on this one.

Judging by the double death, the only possibility in theory would have been JOAT and Vigilante. The JOAT using the one shot vig and the vig being a vig. Does anyone see any other possibilities?

Im just trying to figure out if there are any other ways to be killed other than those two roles that anyone sees as Im pretty sure mafia have taken them

Uhh...yeah. The mafia get a kill regardless of the roles that they have.

Okay number 1, let me address your dying case. CLEVER gave several posts that linked a chain of players. If you want to say its the whole trend, then I will go ahead and say that:
CLEVER posted a sequence of players that, under your logic, can be connected which includes you and dazza. By doing this, the fact you both arguing against us like this in turn gives it a whole knew trend of you two defending 1 case that also, in the end, links back to SG7 as well. By calling us scum, you call yourself scum.

Now to address the red highlighted part. Havent we been wondering if Mafia get their own kill regardless? I do recall that being the question of several players. Please riddle me this, how exactly do you KNOW? Because last time I checked, though it is likely they do, we cant confirm it. There are 3 players in this game that can take a shot. Vig, 1 shot governor, and JOAT. So you, in general, can confirm something that we arent quite sure about. What inside info do you have that we dont?

[shieldgenerator7]

*1 shot governor means he can only use his ability one time, not that he has a kill

[ghostly447]

*1 shot governor means he can only use his ability one time, not that he has a kill

What? I dont get what your saying.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

*chuckles* The two of you are missing the point, intentionally most likely. you're still arguing from the perspective that any one post defending a scum damns a player and/or implies a connection. It's the long term trend, not the individual data point that matters in my case. The point is that the three of you, including shield, never attacked each other and never bothered to defend anyone unless it was one of you who was being attacked. And now that we know shield to be scum, that implicates all of you.Fastpost quote:

I made a statement before and I have a theory so I would like others input on this one.

Judging by the double death, the only possibility in theory would have been JOAT and Vigilante. The JOAT using the one shot vig and the vig being a vig. Does anyone see any other possibilities?

Im just trying to figure out if there are any other ways to be killed other than those two roles that anyone sees as Im pretty sure mafia have taken them

Uhh...yeah. The mafia get a kill regardless of the roles that they have.

so two posts do? im pretty sure i agreed with him twice which is hold on doing math....one more than you ...now your willing to build a case on me because i agreed with someone one more time than you did?

id like to point out that the post i made connecting them happened throughout the entire game which by standard definition is "long term"

seriously ...ya cause i definitaly know who the scum is... i believed he was town hence i defended him you cant tell me what i can or cannot believe ..sorry but that point is invalid

[everywhere116]

@ghostly Point 1: Where is this sequence of players?

Point 2: I know this because I pay attention. Unlike you, apparently.

If the mafia got the Vig. does that mean they get two kills?

While the vig remains alive, yes.

Also, shield, you can't say anything related to the game.

[dazza2008]

*chuckles* The two of you are missing the point, intentionally most likely. You're still arguing from the perspective that any one post defending a scum damns a player and/or implies a connection. It's the long term trend, not the individual data point that matters in my case. The point is that the three of you, including shield, never attacked each other and never bothered to defend anyone unless it was one of you who was being attacked. And now that we know shield to be scum, that implicates all of you.

Fastpost quote:

I made a statement before and I have a theory so I would like others input on this one.

Judging by the double death, the only possibility in theory would have been JOAT and Vigilante. The JOAT using the one shot vig and the vig being a vig. Does anyone see any other possibilities?

Im just trying to figure out if there are any other ways to be killed other than those two roles that anyone sees as Im pretty sure mafia have taken them

Uhh...yeah. The mafia get a kill regardless of the roles that they have.

Okay number 1, let me address your dying case. CLEVER gave several posts that linked a chain of players. If you want to say its the whole trend, then I will go ahead and say that:
CLEVER posted a sequence of players that, under your logic, can be connected which includes you and dazza. By doing this, the fact you both arguing against us like this in turn gives it a whole knew trend of you two defending 1 case that also, in the end, links back to SG7 as well. By calling us scum, you call yourself scum.

Now to address the red highlighted part. Havent we been wondering if Mafia get their own kill regardless? I do recall that being the question of several players. Please riddle me this, how exactly do you KNOW? Because last time I checked, though it is likely they do, we cant confirm it. There are 3 players in this game that can take a shot. Vig, 1 shot governor, and JOAT. So you, in general, can confirm something that we arent quite sure about. What inside info do you have that we dont?

You are really missing the point. The case put against you is connecting the 3 of you. 1 of which we lynched and was scum. You linking everyone else in the game is just stupid and not doing yourself any favours.

Also the people you are trying to connect were all people pushing for the SG7 lynch so are most likely to be town here.

Also I asked in the thread if mafia get 2 kills if they got the Vig. and Rodion confirmed they would. This is how we KNOW.

Fastposted

And again. Thanks for finding that quote. I couldn't be arsed

[shieldgenerator7]

Also, shield, you can't say anything related to the game.

yeah I know but it was clarifying something that everyone should already know so I thought it was alright. I'll shut up till endgame now. (tis gonna be so ahrd)

-SG7 ( )