PKMN Chap 2: Day 6(5/18)

[strike wolf]

So am I ever gonna go through a game with you ghostly where you don't call me out? lol.

Umm..when was my complaints about Jonty, Shield or Some7hingclever's posts ever about inactivity>? you are right I didn't call out VS for inactivity. THe only person I can recall calling out for being inactive was Fircoal and he had been inactive longer than VS had. I called out Jonty for Haggis' case on him plus sheeping the PMC case, I called out Some7hingclever. From what I've seen you don't understand much of anything about any of the cases presented. Really every time something weird happens I bring up jonty? Let's look at it.

1. Initial vote on Jonty: what strange thing happened right before that?

2. Follow up question on Jonty: Happened after Nag's question which by the way I don't find by itself that odd as questioning the case of the day on day one is pretty standard procedure. Note that it was my first post since Jonty had responded to my case against him.

3. My next post. I call out both Nag and PMC for their comments. As well as make a note of another easy comment from Some7hingclever.

4. Made a comment about the deadline. Didn't notice I had been fast posted by Jonty until later on.

5. Again call out Some7hingclever for his lack of contribution.

6. Haggis makes post about Jonty. Reminds me that Jonty hadn't answered my question. Only other event going on. PCM and PMC were arguing back and forth at that point I was starting to lean town for both of them and with no sense of a lynch being imminent on either (Kratos had backed off at that point if memory is correct), I didn't really feel a need to get in the middle of that at the time.

7. Continue questioning Jonty. Same page.

8. Again commenting about Jonty (3rd in a row). Also an obvious shot at VS and others whose only excuse for not posting was that they were frustrated by how Day 1 has been going (Not that I can completely blame them for that)

I think from my activities, you could safely say that I wasn't just bringing up Jonty at random points.

I haven't made many comments on the VS case. it's not really out of his usual behavior so as much as it is unhelpful. I'm not going to make a case on that even if I am okay with lynching him just to progress the game. I've made comments on the PMC case and most other cases when they felt relevant. I've continually questioned Jonty and Some7hingclever. Considering Some7hing doesn't want to be treated like a new player. I'll try to have a fully constructed case by tonight but probablly won't be ready until tomorrow. PMC I have gotten a slightly more town read on recently. I switch back on him a little bit now and then but right now he's lowest out of those I would be willing to lynch. Shield's been more or less around until the weekend which is a less active time for most. I'll give him more time before I actually call him inactive. Overall similar reasons for distrusting him as Some7hng. PCM like I said. I don't have any scum vibes from him currently and didn't really feel like getting involved in what appeared to me at that point to be a possible town vs town argument.

Kratos pushing hard on PMC? Kratos was the first one who had voted PMC to unvote PMC when there was the request for time for PMC to post all his thoughts and has since stated that PMC's responses satisfied him enough that he would not revote. Considering that Kratos was also one of the one's who was not just simply sheeping on the PMC case I do not see the scum vibe you are getting.

Fastposted: You do realize most of that "fluff" (some of it is some of it isn't) you're accusing me of missing, you could also accuse pretty much everyone else in thsi game at the time of missing as well right? Secondly please stop acting like I've been teh great big inactive hunter in this game I haven't because quite frankly I find inactive hunting to be a waste of time in active games (this one has been fairly active even if the topics can be infuriating at times). The only person I called out for being inactive this game was Fircoal and he had been gone longer than anyone else at that point.

[jonty125]

Well, after reading about 25 pages of bull shit, 5 pages of what seems to be town on town, and 2 pages of "DONT GIVE UP", I have come to the conclusion that:

Zimmah is a potential scum. I do not like how he handled the day 1 random pressure, and think his case could have waited for a little more evidence.

Strike Wolf is a top scum contender. Every time there is a strange post such as Nags "give me 3 reasons not to vote you", Strike wolf brings up jonty again, which by the way I do not feel is scum because I can understand people being quiet, especially if it is continued. I may persue jonty, but at this point it is neither worth time, or a strong case. FOS Strike Wolf

You say strike is a top scum conteneder and then only go on to FOS of him. And the case on me has nothing to do with inactivity. unvote vote ghostly

[kratos644]

Going through, Kranos mentioned somewhere (P.23 somewhere) saying "going against the grain was not good". Well, I feel that this is quite scummy personally. Because last I checked, Zimmah went against the grain. And he was released after getting a few votes on him, with no claim, and really no results.

Just out of curiosity did you actually read the case I presented or just skim through it? I didn't say that "Going against the grain was not good." That makes it sound like a general thing and that every time someone does it's a bad thing which certainly isn't true. My case, if you would read it, talked about how he was saying things that appeared like he was making it sound as if he was trying to seek out cases while still applying pressure to the case he wanted to make him look town. Yes there was also parts about him stagnating the game from continuing on with the zimmah case as well.

What is really tricky is how Some7hingCLEVER continues to post a bunch of fluff to appear active but has no real substance to add anywhere...

True..But you know what is also really tricky? The fact that you were heading the case just 2 pages ago and now others are taking control and you are no longer really pushing on PMC. Funny how things like that work. You know, switching pressure everywhere by taking majority thought (everyone hates the pressure on Zimmah) and applying it to the person continuing to pressure.

What's even trickier than this though is how you're trying to twist things. Yes I was heading the case 2 pages ago but there weren't really any new developments for me to respond to and I was starting to get a much more null read on PMC at that point so there wasn't much to be said about that from me. And soon after he asked for time to create a solid defense for things which he did. Why would I continue to push that?

Kratos - Seems to direct the flow but never finish out his cases.

First you say "cases" I've presented the one case on PMC and while I may have directed the flow on that why would I finish out a case that was then adequately defended and I now believe the player is town... I'm not going to continue to push for a lynch of someone who I don't believe to be scum that's just stupid. I know maybe if I had said somewhere that PMC's response was good enough for me and that I no longer wanted to vote for him. Then we wouldn't have this confusion I bet.

Alright. PMC, your response has satisfied me so my vote will be remaining off of you for now.

Oh wait I did say that. Hmm... Why are we having this confusion then? Either you've been really skimming or you're trying to attack the people who have been talking about clever as seeming scummy. aka SW and I

Clever jumps all over the board with activity. Some games, he is inactive. Others, he is half active, half inactive. Most, he attempts to make the cases and figure out everything as he goes, and does relatively okay. In this case, I think he is trying to give little imput. Maybe either because he doesnt think the cases given are good ones, maybe because he is scum. He is not on the top of my list of potential scum.

This is just to further my point about you protecting clever. Here you're trying to sort of protect by saying he's not high on your list of potential scum/you don't think he's acting to scummy yet you also say that maybe he's acting the way he his because he is scum to kind of cover your tracks. I find this quite scummy in itself but unfortunately it is built around clever being scum so he would have to first be lynched to figure things out but if he does come up scum at some point you're my first target for a case.


Anyway I must be going for now as I have to work. When I get off work tonight I'll work on putting together a case on S7C so we can get things rolling.

[shieldgenerator7]

Wow, I'm gone for two days and people call me inactive.

Nice read up ghostly, it's hard to remember everything from the first read through isn't it? (I learned that the hard way in Memebase) I thought PMC was scummy for bringing up the zimmah case after it had subsided, but his defense made me believe he was town. Jonty, on the other hand, has not had a great defense (that I remember ) and has not been pressured as much. I still suspect him thus far, but I'm hearing other cases, and I hear there's going to be another one soon, so I'll wait a bit before casting my vote.

Speaking of my vote: [volor=#FF0000]UNVOTE VOTE CAPTAIN PLANET[/color] Welcome to the game!

I honestly think S7C is town. He posts quite a bit. But if you think he's scum because of what he does, I think he will need a few good lynches to help him play better. But I won't vote for him unless I have concrete evidence.

I don't like what VS has been doing this game very much. It seems he is just riding his reputation and saying we're all boring. Still love ya, VS but could you step it up a notch and help us scumhunt? Thanks

ANd thanks for popping in Tails, I hope you get caught up soon

And before I say anything else, I'm haven't been posting much because I'm tired of these same old arguments and it's not worth my time posting. *braces for impact* ( )

And also about nag: I have seen scum request replacement (I have done this) and I have seen town request replacement (leehar & edoc in Fire & Ice), so I doubt we can get any info out of nag requesting replacement. However, we can get info out of his posts and out of his replacment's posts. I will not vote him yet tho because Hank in the last pokemon acted real scummy and then Lala replaced him and turned things around, and ended up being town if I remember correctly. So maybe Captain Planet will be able to turn things around, however by what some of you say Im not sure you'll give him that mercy.

Ok now to conclude my post with a note about how my weekend went:

I got some stuff done instead of turning the internet on. It turns out I get more done w/o internet. Imagine that

FASTPOSTED

-SG7 ( )

[shieldgenerator7]

Just read kratos' post. Lol I suspect we'll have another Power Role Draft D2 case of ghostly being tied to me and S7C
If you guys weren't in that one I flipped scum D1 and S7C and ghostly came under pressure the next day. Almost got a townie lynched. Please don't make this same mistake again... I mean some people just like to group with other people.

Some of you pressure ghostly because what he says is somewhat incorrect. I won't judge him for that because it's a lot and it's hard to collect it all at once. I'll give him time to correct himself or refine his thoughts. I think it would have been ,ore scummy for him to just post "Hey I'm done reading. Whaat's going on?" He obviosuly spent a lot of time on that post (tho not as much as he could have to make it accurate), and so far he seems town to me, i.e. I have no definitive proof he's scum.

-SG7 ( )

[jonty125]

i.e. I have no definitive proof he's scum.

I don't think you could.

[shieldgenerator7]

i.e. I have no definitive proof he's scum.

I don't think you could.

if you don't like the word "definitive" then try the word "solid". Solid evidence such as: counterclaim, investigative result, etc.

[pmchugh]

Sorry abouut the inactive thing shield, that was my fault.. I just missed your usual level off supplied fluff

I think ghostly brings up some valid points, mainly those against nag but in other cases (especially kratos) they don't seem so well put together.

My three suspects are still sully, nag and tails. I will be interested to here from CP as nags replacement and also this case on clever.

[shieldgenerator7]

NO harm done PMC. I'm glad to know I'm missed

[shieldgenerator7]

Lol I just got a mass prod. I'm so totally the least active player. Anyways gotta go. See you later

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Its OMGUS because he said he didn't suspect me but now that I am accusing him he suddenly does.

Nag added nothing, literally nothing. His request was BS as pointed out by ghostly and IB, you can't provide reasons that you are town without claiming. You find my "crusade" suspicious.. where is my crusade? And how am I self-aggrandizing?

Your post is completely illogical and to me it seems like you are attempting to swing the BW back to someone who has already been pressured to the fullest for no good reason.. If you vote for me now it is akin to asking for a claim, for I can't say any more that hasn't already been said in my defence.

I am pretty tempted to vote for you, you have literally only posted about 4 times and none of it has been of use other than to defend yourself. I would like to hear from nag's replacement though on his opinion of today, you two are defo my biggest suspects atm.

Also shield has went uncharacteristically quiet ever since I put him in slight town tell.

Accused him of what? His query was no different than any other for a defense. He just asked why he shouldn't vote for you, in nag's no bullshit fashion. You then accused him of...? I see IB was the one who accused nag, not you.

Your crusade against zimmah. You oft repeated how you're the only one who was actually pursuing the case, how this makes you special, etc. etc. There's the self-aggrandizement I was talking about.

My posts are almost never illogical. What I posted was merely an observation on your actions. And according to the VC the BW is still on you, therefore I can't be trying to "swing the BW back." And if you feel the need to vote for me, then please do so. If I'm so scummy in your eyes because of my lack of activity and my self-serving posts, then I don't know why you haven't voted for me. I can only surmise that, recognizing that you're in a tight spot, you don't want to be accused of omgus'ing.

-Tails

[Eldario]

UnVote I have lost confidence in the PMC-case, and will now await the upcoming case before i recast my vote

[pmchugh]

Its OMGUS because he said he didn't suspect me but now that I am accusing him he suddenly does

Accused him of what? His query was no different than any other for a defense. He just asked why he shouldn't vote for you, in nag's no bullshit fashion. You then accused him of...? I see IB was the one who accused nag, not you.

After nags "3 reasons comment" I posted a response which included this:

It actually makes me considerably suspicious of nag, I would expect him to have much more sense. FOS nag

Nags own response to this was to in his own words do a "u-turn" on his opinion of me.

Do you want to know my opinion on pmchugh. My opinion is like zimmah he does not help himself ONE BIT. That is why he has 7 votes on him, he is being ridiculously pig-headed. I wanted to give him the OPPORTUNITY to actually post why he shouldn't be lynched as it seemed to be heading that way and I personally was not convinced by this, this is why I was fuming that people were interpreting my posts incorrectly.. however, in response he chose to act like a jackass and with his henchman here trying to switch the target onto me. This recent pile of bullcrap posts has had actually made me do a u-turn on my views on pmchugh and I definitely have my eye on you too.

Your crusade against zimmah. You oft repeated how you're the only one who was actually pursuing the case, how this makes you special, etc. etc. There's the self-aggrandizement I was talking about.

I'd like to see some quotes on this please. The only thing vaguely like this that I remember saying was along the lines of everyone else was voting/accusing but not really giving him statements he could reply to and/or deny.

If I'm so scummy in your eyes because of my lack of activity and my self-serving posts, then I don't know why you haven't voted for me. I can only surmise that, recognizing that you're in a tight spot, you don't want to be accused of omgus'ing.

This is not OMGUS and nor would it be if I voted for you, as you can see if you go back a few pages and review my list of targets where you clearly fell into the category of "Leaning mafia". I haven't voted you just yet as I am still weighing up my options, no townie is ever 100% sure and there are plenty of other candidates for lynching today.

And according to the VC the BW is still on you, therefore I can't be trying to "swing the BW back."

If the bandwagon is a pendulum then it is currently swinging away from me, even if it is still closest to me. In other words the momentum is shifting away from me, the pressure is lessoning and you are attempting to reverse this in order to force a lunch/claim.

[zimmah]

Zimmah is a potential scum. I do not like how he handled the day 1 random pressure, and think his case could have waited for a little more evidence.

interesting timing for your 'case' on me.

[LootenPlunder]

Hoho, that nag is one saucy player. I like his style.

Also yeah that was quite the catfight early day.

While I don't agree with ghostly on some of those points. (I honestly can't stand quote pyramids, and I don't see all of those posts as fluff.) I do agree that nag's "Three Reasons" post was quite odd and it looked like fishing to me. He seems like he has a pretty aggressive play-style but I cannot vouch for his posts because I have no idea what his train of thought was.


So ghost, my question to you is what do you do when I flip mafia?

[LootenPlunder]

Wow that was pro as heck.

I meant to say when I flip town.

Maybe it was just a... Freudian slip?

*gulp*

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Hoho, that nag is one saucy player. I like his style.

Also yeah that was quite the catfight early day.

While I don't agree with ghostly on some of those points. (I honestly can't stand quote pyramids, and I don't see all of those posts as fluff.) I do agree that nag's "Three Reasons" post was quite odd and it looked like fishing to me. He seems like he has a pretty aggressive play-style but I cannot vouch for his posts because I have no idea what his train of thought was.


So ghost, my question to you is what do you do when I flip mafia?

lol i have dont that before
well if you flip town its to the drawing board. but lets be completly honest, i would much much rather lose a townie day 1 then no lynch that way we have something to go off of the next day including the night scene. but if we no lynch we will just spin in a circle like we are already doing. and we never truly know who scum is so its kinda always a guess on day 1 and he acted pretty scummy day one im just sorry you had to pick that up.

[LootenPlunder]

Yeah I understand the policy of day one lynches. Day one lynches can yield so much information. The best I can do in this position is deflect to another player and be accused of deflecting to further dig my grave.
Most of my read-up was on my past-self, the cases I had built were destroyed by later posts. So I'm still sifting through to get some goodens.

I think Ghostly should agree to be lynched if I flip town... if you're so sure why don't you put your life on the line!
Yes yes I understand you don't 100 percent know. But lets make this interesting shall we.

[shieldgenerator7]

Yeah I understand the policy of day one lynches. Day one lynches can yield so much information. The best I can do in this position is deflect to another player and be accused of deflecting to further dig my grave.
Most of my read-up was on my past-self, the cases I had built were destroyed by later posts. So I'm still sifting through to get some goodens.

I think Ghostly should agree to be lynched if I flip town... if you're so sure why don't you put your life on the line!
Yes yes I understand you don't 100 percent know. But lets make this interesting shall we.

The thing about this is, not only does it look scummy, but it's not up to ghostly. He could say, "Nope! Not doing it!" then get you lynched, and then town might lynch him D2 anyways. Or he could say, "Sure, I'll take the deal!" and then lynch you, and then D2 not get lynched. It's up to town. Maybe town will lynch ghostly if he makes the deal and maybe town won't. It's not really up to ghostly in the end but he can still choose to take the deal if he wants.
Interesting manuever it sure is

[LootenPlunder]

Hey man that's not the right attitude at all. You gotta work the peer pressure.

It's just a little something I like throwing out there when people are so certain I'm mafia. Makes things a little more fun.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

After nags "3 reasons comment" I posted a response which included this:

pmchugh wrote: It actually makes me considerably suspicious of nag, I would expect him to have much more sense. FOS nag

Nags own response to this was to in his own words do a "u-turn" on his opinion of me.

Again, what exactly did you accuse him of? Your post was a knee-jerk response to nag's demand of the 3 points. I'm suspicious of every single person playing the game (always), yet I haven't actually accused them of anything. Merely stating that you find somebody suspicious isn't an accusation.

Your highlighted passages, I'm afraid, don't justify your point. Nag asked a simple question, and you and others took it the wrong way and got super defensive, which caused him to suspect you. I don't see how that is unreasonable discourse. You ask questions; based on responses you have suspicions.

Your crusade against zimmah. You oft repeated how you're the only one who was actually pursuing the case, how this makes you special, etc. etc. There's the self-aggrandizement I was talking about.

I'd like to see some quotes on this please. The only thing vaguely like this that I remember saying was along the lines of everyone else was voting/accusing but not really giving him statements he could reply to and/or deny.

Spoiler

Firstly let me say that there are two contradictory arguments being placed against me here. One is that I was pushing for a zimmah lynch and the other is that I am going against the grain and this is somehow scummy. I can't possibly be doing both as one involves protecting zimmah. And I had decidedly good reason for going against the grain. I didn't want people going on a crusade against Zimmah but at the same time I wanted explanations, I think that this can be seen in all my posts in which I ask specific questions of zimmah while also attempting to alleviate pressure when it existed.

Perhaps I attempted to do too many things at once and I would have been better placed to present an alternative case but like I say, people were doing such a bad job of providing an argument which could be responded to that I felt the need to ask proper questions.

Are you serious? What is easy about repeatedly pushing on someone when everyone else stops. Influential players like edoc and nag were screaming for me to stop, how is it in any way easy to keep going? This is completely backwards. I could have created a case on probably half the players in this game if I wanted to that would be far more likely to be lynched than zimmah ever was. The only reason I haven't is because there is plenty time left for more slips.

Your argument finds its basis in me "doing the easy thing" while attempting to appear like I am properly scumhunting. The problem with your argument is that for almost this entire thread I have been against the popular opinion. I was against the Zimmah lynch when people were on it and as interest fell on Zimmah I took over. This is precisely the opposite of the point I made about trying to do the easy thing. Now you could argue that by going against the grain I was pushing for a NL but to me that honestly seems like a really bad scum tactic especially on day 1 in a game that I would presume has multiple factions and where I myself have a very low chance of being lynched.

The real purpose of going against main stream opinion is that you see peoples reactions much more clearly.

If I'm so scummy in your eyes because of my lack of activity and my self-serving posts, then I don't know why you haven't voted for me. I can only surmise that, recognizing that you're in a tight spot, you don't want to be accused of omgus'ing.

This is not OMGUS and nor would it be if I voted for you, as you can see if you go back a few pages and review my list of targets where you clearly fell into the category of "Leaning mafia". I haven't voted you just yet as I am still weighing up my options, no townie is ever 100% sure and there are plenty of other candidates for lynching today.

I have little regard for a list of scum potentials that might include me, especially one that is cursory and without much merit. You're entire point against me consisted of my activity, which wasn't isolated to this one game, but across the board.

If the bandwagon is a pendulum then it is currently swinging away from me, even if it is still closest to me. In other words the momentum is shifting away from me, the pressure is lessoning and you are attempting to reverse this in order to force a lunch/claim.

Well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

Zimmah is a potential scum. I do not like how he handled the day 1 random pressure, and think his case could have waited for a little more evidence.

interesting timing for your 'case' on me.

Indeed.

-Tails

[ghostly447]

big post coming up. I will summarize here:

SW, I will have to go back and read in depth. Your defense is enough to hold you over until I have time to re-read.

Kratos, you can expect to be 1 of 2 targets in my next post. You just set yourself in the spotlight.

Lootenplunder, you are the other 1 of 2 targets in my next post. More scummy posting.

Be back with the big post.

Fastposted x2

[shieldgenerator7]

Hey Captain PLanet, props to you for trying to make the game more fun.
I just don't think it'll work quite the way you would expect it to.

And honestly I find it to be a little scummy especially since you're under pressure for having replaced nag. (a tough position to be in nonetheless)

But it's still nice having you in the game

FASTPOSTED

[ghostly447]

Forgot to include zimmah will have a bit of mentioning as well.

[LootenPlunder]

Hey man, it was a simple y/n question. It can't take that big of a post to answer.